What Would Evidence for God's Existence Be Like?

[xXLoveisGodXx]

Did you not say, "As to your question, I cannot just believe that all gods are fictional."

You claim to be able to make this choice, to alter your perceptions. How do you do that? Can you choose to perceive green as red?

I changed my perception by choosing to see what I thought was green as actually being red. After all, it was only my perception that caused me to believe it was green in the first place.
I don't understand the complexity of this argument.
If 'green' was truly 'green' for all to see then there would be no room for argument.
You can't think that it's possible that all people perceive things exactly the same. So, if we all perceive things differently what then is the difference?
The only difference is perception.
Glass half empty, half full for example.
Do you contend that someone who see the glass as half empty can never see the glass as half full? The level or liquid in the glass is consistent. It is your choice how you view or perceive it.

 

[bhsmte]

Steve vw has a much better position in this matter.

Are you at all concerned regarding Steve's personal motivation to have the position he does and what his credentials are to have an opinion on the matter, that should supersede the opinion from experts in the field?

If you are very sick, would you seek out a physician who is a specialist in treating the disease you may have, or do rely on others, who have no medical training?

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

No, not at the cost of our freedom.

Are you so afraid of these terrorists that you would just rather live in a bunker protected by men with machine guns?
Do you think we are in anyway, better prepared for the next threat?

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

Are you at all concerned regarding Steve's personal motivation to have the position he does and what his credentials are to have an opinion on the matter, that should supersede the opinion from experts in the field?

If you are very sick, would you seek out a physician who is a specialist in treating the disease you may have, or do rely on others, who have no medical training?

As I said, there are 'experts' on both sides of the argument. The only reason evolution is so widely believed is because its propagated by the modern media. Scientists you discount or try and show evidence against evolution are publicly humiliated and discredited.
Is this any different from how the theory of creation came to be so widely believed?

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

* Scientists who discount...

 

[bhsmte]

As I said, there are 'experts' on both sides of the argument. The only reason evolution is so widely believed is because its propagated by the modern media. Scientists you discount or try and show evidence against evolution are publicly humiliated and discredited.
Is this any different from how the theory of creation came to be so widely believed?

Who are the experts on the creationist side of the argument and what evidence do they rely on?

I see, you are a conspiracy theory type, who claims scientists over the last 150 years are all in on a huge scam to fake evidence for evolution.

What is stopping these experts on your end, from showing (with evidence) that evolution is wrong? You do realize, the scientist who shows evolution to be wrong, will likely be one of the most famous revered scientists who ever lived? All they need, is the evidence to back their claim.

 

[bhsmte]

No, not at the cost of our freedom.

Are you so afraid of these terrorists that you would just rather live in a bunker protected by men with machine guns?
Do you think we are in anyway, better prepared for the next threat?

How do you live in a bunker?

How has your personal life changed since 9/11?

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

Are you at all concerned regarding Steve's personal motivation to have the position he does and what his credentials are to have an opinion on the matter, that should supersede the opinion from experts in the field?

If you are very sick, would you seek out a physician who is a specialist in treating the disease you may have, or do rely on others, who have no medical training?

I'm not too concerned about his motivation. If we can come to the same conclusion then why fight over the journey.

The problem I have with your question is this,
You are comparing Evo theorists to the doctors and creation theorists to 'others' with no experience. That's not valid in my opinion.

It's more like this,
If I was very sick and one group of doctors said this will save me and another group of doctors says that something else is better. I've seen compelling arguments on both sides of the fence but have not seen the proof either way to be 100% infallible.

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

How do you live in a bunker?

How has your personal life changed since 9/11?

Are you serious?

Do you live in America?

 

[bhsmte]

I'm not too concerned about his motivation. If we can come to the same conclusion then why fight over the journey.

The problem I have with your question is this,
You are comparing Evo theorists to the doctors and creation theorists to 'others' with no experience. That's not valid in my opinion.

It's more like this,
If I was very sick and one group of doctors said this will save me and another group of doctors says that something else is better. I've seen compelling arguments on both sides of the fence but have not seen the proof either way to be 100% infallible.

No, my question was simple.

If you were very sick with a certain disease, would you seek out a physician who is a specialist in treating that disease, or would you rely on others who were not educated and trained in treating the disease.

Lastly, since physicians learn a whole bunch about biology and physiology in their training, they all know and understand how evolution works and how it relates to biological functions.

In other words, good luck finding a highly trained physician, who does not agree with the theory of evolution.

 

[bhsmte]

Are you serious?

Do you live in America?

Give me specific examples, of how your life has been directly impacted.

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

Who are the experts on the creationist side of the argument and what evidence do they rely on?

I see, you are a conspiracy theory type, who claims scientists over the last 150 years are all in on a huge scam to fake evidence for evolution.

What is stopping these experts on your end, from showing (with evidence) that evolution is wrong? You do realize, the scientist who shows evolution to be wrong, will likely be one of the most famous revered scientists who ever lived? All they need, is the evidence to back their claim.

No, I am not into the conspiracy theory.
Furthermore, I claim to have no 'end' or side. I am not taking sides on this matter. I am simply telling you that I don't believe I have ever seen evidence that proves the Theory of Evolution, IN WHOLE. same with creationists. I will let Steve vw argue on the side of creationism as thats where he stands.
If you'd like a chance to change my opinion, please provide a link and I would be happy to review it. I am open to evidence. However, please realize that I want proof that the ToE is completely true. Not just a part of it, like common ancestors. The fact that species exist today that have common ancestors does not prove the ToE as a whole.

 

[bhsmte]

No, I am not into the conspiracy theory.
Furthermore, I claim to have no 'end' or side. I am not taking sides on this matter. I am simply telling you that I don't believe I have ever seen evidence that proves the Theory of Evolution, IN WHOLE. same with creationists. I will let Steve vw argue on the side of creationism as thats where he stands.
If you'd like a chance to change my opinion, please provide a link and I would be happy to review it. I am open to evidence. However, please realize that I want proof that the ToE is completely true. Not just a part of it, like common ancestors. The fact that species exist today that have common ancestors does not prove the ToE as a whole.

What did you think of the Francis Collins quote I gave you?

Do you discount his background and experience, simply because you disagree with him?

Do you understand how science works?

Do you agree with the theory of gravity and or germ theory? If so, why?

 

[Colter]

No, I am not into the conspiracy theory.
Furthermore, I claim to have no 'end' or side. I am not taking sides on this matter. I am simply telling you that I don't believe I have ever seen evidence that proves the Theory of Evolution, IN WHOLE. same with creationists. I will let Steve vw argue on the side of creationism as thats where he stands.
If you'd like a chance to change my opinion, please provide a link and I would be happy to review it. I am open to evidence. However, please realize that I want proof that the ToE is completely true. Not just a part of it, like common ancestors. The fact that species exist today that have common ancestors does not prove the ToE as a whole.

This is a good link about radiometric dating as well as other dating techniques written by a Christian and scientist. The evidence of an old earth with proof of very old life revealed in the archeological record, is simply irrefutable. In Christianity we have been influenced by the creation story written for the child like mind of a Bronze Age sheep herder audience.

http://asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

Last two posts,

I understand that he is well qualified to make said opinions.

Let me be more direct,
Is it not the intent of evolutionists to disprove God and creation? Does evidence supporting evolution mean that God doesn't exist and had no part in making the world what it is today?
I do believe in some parts of evolution as I do believe some parts of creation. I have not seen hard evidence, still, that discounts the opposed theory.
Scientific data that supports the theory of evolution in part. The problem that I have with evolution is that it says all these events are random mutations. I do not believe that a series of random events led to the perfect world we live in. (Perfect, of course, outside of human interaction).
There are Christians who argue that the earth is only 6000 years old. They believe this because they think its what the bible says. In fact, the bible does not say this at all.
Again, I find fault on both sides of this argument.

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

Scientific data that ... In part, does exist.

 

[bhsmte]

Last two posts,

Let me be more direct,
Is it not the intent of evolutionists to disprove God and creation? Does evidence supporting evolution mean that God doesn't exist and had no part in making the world what it is today?

Can you give me an example of real scientific work, that makes the claim a God does not exist?

Do you also realize, the majority of Christians around the world, agree with the theory of evolution?

I do believe in some parts of evolution as I do believe some parts of creation. I have not seen hard evidence, still, that discounts the opposed theory.
Scientific data that supports the theory of evolution in part. The problem that I have with evolution is that it says all these events are random mutations. I do not believe that a series of random events led to the perfect world we live in. (Perfect, of course, outside of human interaction).
There are Christians who argue that the earth is only 6000 years old. They believe this because they think its what the bible says. In fact, the bible does not say this at all.
Again, I find fault on both sides of this argument.

I guess the above would be dependent on a couple of things, your ability to understand science and the evidence for evolution and whether your personal faith belief, will allow you to acknowledge the evidence.

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent

What is the evidence for evolution?

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

On the other side of this,
I don't believe that proof of Creation discounts evolution. I believe that there could be a theory that satisfies both sides if people would work together to get to that conclusion.

 

[xXLoveisGodXx]

You'll have to give me time to read your link in order to properly respond. I'll do my research and get back to you with my conclusions.
Honestly, I am not current on all of this data. There's a lot here.
Thanks, ill be back around.

In the meantime, I would like to know what you mean by scientific data that disproves God.
Seriously... Doesn't the ToE discount creation? Is it not still commonplace for evolutionists to say, "see, proof of evolution! There is no God!"
Are you saying that one can fully believe in evolution and still believe in God? If this is the case, apparently I am further behind than I thought. I can't imagine Christians being able to accept the ToE unless it has changed since I was taught it. It was a long time ago, has the ToE evolved to give place to a God or supreme being?
What is your stance on the beginning of this world we live in?

 

[Colter]

Last two posts,

I understand that he is well qualified to make said opinions.

Let me be more direct,
Is it not the intent of evolutionists to disprove God and creation? Does evidence supporting evolution mean that God doesn't exist and had no part in making the world what it is today?
I do believe in some parts of evolution as I do believe some parts of creation. I have not seen hard evidence, still, that discounts the opposed theory.
Scientific data that supports the theory of evolution in part. The problem that I have with evolution is that it says all these events are random mutations. I do not believe that a series of random events led to the perfect world we live in. (Perfect, of course, outside of human interaction).
There are Christians who argue that the earth is only 6000 years old. They believe this because they think its what the bible says. In fact, the bible does not say this at all.
Again, I find fault on both sides of this argument.

I believe that the Son of God created the Milky Way and other galaxies in our vicinity. I believe that primitive forms of life were planted on our world after it reached the point where it could sustain life. From that initial life implantation, life evolved as we know it.

In short, God used the process of cosmic evolution to create life as we know it.

The story of Adam & Eve was very old by the time the Hebrews incorporated it into the narratives of their history written in Babylon.