What would be the core of Methodism in a nutshell?

Aino · Mar 3, 2011

Hi!
So I've been looking into other churches lately, and while I've heard of the Methodist church before I know nearly nothing of it... So I wanted to hear from you guys how you'd define the core of methodism. What do you think is most essential about your churches? What kind of worship services do you have? And what is your stance on other churches? Like would you cooperate with Lutherans or Pentecostals for example?
Thanks for taking time answering my questions.

-Aino

Mr Dave · Mar 3, 2011

Hi there

The core (distinctives) of Methodism would be the four alls of Methodism;

All need to be saved (Original Sin, howsoever you understand it)
All may be saved (Unlimited atonement)
All may know themselves saved (Assurance)
All may be saved to the uttermost. (Christian Perfection/Entire Sanctification)

The Gospel, Holy Communion and Hymn Singing are essential to Methodism.
Methodism arose from the Evangelical Revival in Great Britain (woo ) so has always had a very strong focus on the Gospels. We arose from the Church of England from the arminian school of theology; the CoE is doctrinally calvinist, so this is where the break came, even though J Wesley always said he was an Anglican Priest. Coming from the Higher side of the CoE, Holy Communion has always been important, and we have a fairly high theology; it is a sacrament, we have the same liturgy as the CoE, we believe in the Real Presence etc... Wesley was sent to the American Colonies as a priest, and had many struggles with his faith. On one of the journeys to America there was a bad storm, in which he was calmed by Moravians singing hymns. From this he recognised the importance of hymn singing in worshipping God. His brother, Charles Wesley (also an Anglican Priest) was an excellent hymn writer, and wrote over 6,000 hymns, many of which are still sung today by all denominations (from the RCC to the most charismatic non-denominational church). Methodists are known to be great singers

Ours services vary but not massively. In the USA I think they tend to be more 'high'. In Britain, we follow the 5 hymn sandwich in most Methodist churches, with a mix of traditional hymns and more modern worship songs. Once a month we celebrate Holy Communion following the liturgy. All services include, hymns, at least two readings (following the Revised Common Lectionary) and prayers (confession, adoration, intercession, thanksgiving, the Lord's Prayer, Benediction).

Other churches;

We are fairly big on ecumenism.
I can't speak for the USA on links with Lutheranism. In Britain, the Lutheran Church is tiny/non existent because of the predominance of the Anglican Church which is extrememly close to the Lutheran Church. In Britain we are strongly united by the Anglican-Methodist Covenant. Pentecostal churches are an off-shoot from Methodism (for the most part), so whilst not being fully in agreement theologically, have no problem (usually) in getting on. In Britian, Methodists are involved in Churches Together and regularly communicate happily with all denominations.

Mr Dave · Mar 3, 2011

Just checked and unfortunately we don't have a specific partner church in Finland

All we have is the Northern Europe link, so if you were trying to find a church you'd be wise to get in touch with;

Northern Europe: Bishop Christian Alsted, UMC Central Conferences - Tel: 00 45 70209390 (office) E-Mail: bishop@umc-ne.org or office@umc-ne.org

The Methodist Church of Great Britain | Our Partner Churches

Aino · Mar 3, 2011

Oh that's not a problem - there's a Methodist church like 500m from my place - I just need to cope with the Swedish language LOL. But I'm already planning on getting in touch with them and visiting a few times at least. Thanks for looking though, I appreciate your input.

Mr Dave · Mar 3, 2011

Aino said:
Oh that's not a problem - there's a Methodist church like 500m from my place - I just need to cope with the Swedish language LOL. But I'm already planning on getting in touch with them and visiting a few times at least. Thanks for looking though, I appreciate your input.

Awesome. Ah Swedish is fine, even I managed to hold a brief conversation with someone in Swedish after a month of teaching myself and not actually hearing it in person. You'll have no problem if you live that close.

I hope you enjoy it there, do tell us how it goes

Gud välsigne dig!

Aino · Mar 3, 2011

Mr Dave said:
Awesome. Ah Swedish is fine, even I managed to hold a brief conversation with someone in Swedish after a month of teaching myself and not actually hearing it in person. You'll have no problem if you live that close.

I hope you enjoy it there, do tell us how it goes

Gud välsigne dig!

Haha, tack detsamma. Det är bra att höra att nån har lärt sig svenska utan att ha tvingats att göra så.

Mr Dave · Mar 3, 2011

Aino said:
Haha, tack detsamma. Det är bra att höra att nån har lärt sig svenska utan att ha tvingats att göra så.

Tack så mycket jag talar enda lite svenska men jag älskar Sverige (jag gick till Stockholm sista vecka). Tyvärr jag talar inte finsk Likväl, som jag sa, jag talar inte mycket svensk

GregoryofNyssa · Mar 3, 2011

Mr Dave said:
Hi there

We are fairly big on ecumenism.
I can't speak for the USA on links with Lutheranism. In Britain, the Lutheran Church is tiny/non existent because of the predominance of the Anglican Church which is extrememly close to the Lutheran Church.

Very impressive post Mr. Dave, I am thoroughly enjoying learning the differences between the church here in America and across the pond. In reference to the Lutherans, the United Methodist Church and the ELCA are now in Full Communion with one another. Both recognize the others ordinations and the carrying out of the Sacraments. For example, here in the state of South Carolina the only seminary that I can attend for my ordination into the UMC is Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary which is an ELCA school. It is closer than either of the two UMC seminaries that are 'close' with one being in Georgia and one in North Carolina. In addition the RCC diocese of South Carolina and the UMC conference of SC are in dialogue with one another and the UMC as a whole continues to make progress towards communion with the Episcopal Church.

WiredSpirit · Mar 3, 2011

Mr Dave said:
Hi there

The core (distinctives) of Methodism would be the four alls of Methodism;

All need to be saved (Original Sin, howsoever you understand it)
All may be saved (Unlimited atonement)
All may know themselves saved (Assurance)
All may be saved to the uttermost. (Christian Perfection/Entire Sanctification)

The Gospel, Holy Communion and Hymn Singing are essential to Methodism.
Methodism arose from the Evangelical Revival in Great Britain (woo ) so has always had a very strong focus on the Gospels. We arose from the Church of England from the arminian school of theology; the CoE is doctrinally calvinist, so this is where the break came, even though J Wesley always said he was an Anglican Priest. Coming from the Higher side of the CoE, Holy Communion has always been important, and we have a fairly high theology; it is a sacrament, we have the same liturgy as the CoE, we believe in the Real Presence etc... Wesley was sent to the American Colonies as a priest, and had many struggles with his faith. On one of the journeys to America there was a bad storm, in which he was calmed by Moravians singing hymns. From this he recognised the importance of hymn singing in worshipping God. His brother, Charles Wesley (also an Anglican Priest) was an excellent hymn writer, and wrote over 6,000 hymns, many of which are still sung today by all denominations (from the RCC to the most charismatic non-denominational church). Methodists are known to be great singers

Ours services vary but not massively. In the USA I think they tend to be more 'high'. In Britain, we follow the 5 hymn sandwich in most Methodist churches, with a mix of traditional hymns and more modern worship songs. Once a month we celebrate Holy Communion following the liturgy. All services include, hymns, at least two readings (following the Revised Common Lectionary) and prayers (confession, adoration, intercession, thanksgiving, the Lord's Prayer, Benediction).

Other churches;

We are fairly big on ecumenism.
I can't speak for the USA on links with Lutheranism. In Britain, the Lutheran Church is tiny/non existent because of the predominance of the Anglican Church which is extrememly close to the Lutheran Church. In Britain we are strongly united by the Anglican-Methodist Covenant. Pentecostal churches are an off-shoot from Methodism (for the most part), so whilst not being fully in agreement theologically, have no problem (usually) in getting on. In Britian, Methodists are involved in Churches Together and regularly communicate happily with all denominations.

Are you UMC or the Methodist Church of Great Britain? I always had the impression in the UMC that our churches abroad were more "high" and traditional. Here the styles vary a lot, but I'd say Methodists are more likely to have contemporary or informal services than other denominations. I've been to one in Ohio where instead of seats there are tables set up and serve food during the service. My church, and I'd say half or more are this way, is low-church and contemporary. Our pastor has done liturgy a couple of times, but he always has to explain what he's doing and what to do beforehand.

Speaking of ecumenicalism though, we are about to start our Lenten breadfasts with the ELCA and UCC.

Mr Dave · Mar 3, 2011

WiredSpirit said:
Are you UMC or the Methodist Church of Great Britain? I always had the impression in the UMC that our churches abroad were more "high" and traditional. Here the styles vary a lot, but I'd say Methodists are more likely to have contemporary or informal services than other denominations. I've been to one in Ohio where instead of seats there are tables set up and serve food during the service. My church, and I'd say half or more are this way, is low-church and contemporary. Our pastor has done liturgy a couple of times, but he always has to explain what he's doing and what to do beforehand.

Speaking of ecumenicalism though, we are about to start our Lenten breadfasts with the ELCA and UCC.

I'm Methodist Church of Great Britain. If there's any UMC in Great Britain that's news to me There are Free Methodists. I was only going on the little I'd been told (having never been to a UMC service).

The church I go to has the coffee and biscuits served before the service and we sit at tables during the service with more coffee and cake This level of informality is the exception and not the rule though. I've never once been to a Methodist Service (I've moved house all over the country) that doesn't use the liturgy for Holy Communion. All churches belonging to the Methodist Church of Great Britain use 'Hymns and Psalms' (the Methodist Hymn Book) which has only traditional hymns, usually alongside an ecumenical hymn book that has contemporary songs in.

We also never say Pastor. One of those cultural things I guess Pastor in Britain tends to only used be used for non-denominational churches. Any ordained presbyter in the Methodist Church of Great Britain is a minister (we also have deacons, no bishops though) and non ordained are local preachers.

The Lenten breakfasts sound like a great idea, all the best with that

WiredSpirit · Mar 3, 2011

Mr Dave said:
I'm Methodist Church of Great Britain. If there's any UMC in Great Britain that's news to me There are Free Methodists. I was only going on the little I'd been told (having never been to a UMC service).

The church I go to has the coffee and biscuits served before the service and we sit at tables during the service with more coffee and cake This level of informality is the exception and not the rule though. I've never once been to a Methodist Service (I've moved house all over the country) that doesn't use the liturgy for Holy Communion. All churches belonging to the Methodist Church of Great Britain use 'Hymns and Psalms' (the Methodist Hymn Book) which has only traditional hymns, usually alongside an ecumenical hymn book that has contemporary songs in.

We also never say Pastor. One of those cultural things I guess Pastor in Britain tends to only used be used for non-denominational churches. Any ordained presbyter in the Methodist Church of Great Britain is a minister (we also have deacons, no bishops though) and non ordained are local preachers.

The Lenten breakfasts sound like a great idea, all the best with that

I didn't think there were any or many UMCs over there, but you never know. All of the UMC churches I've been to, even the more traditional ones, use some type of visual media rather than hymn or liturgy books.

I don't know anything about Free Methodists (is it a big church?). There is one around here, but it is in a real small building that looks abandoned.

I grew up in a non-denominational church. I left church for a few years then started going to a UCC, but as I've moved around the last three churches I have been to were UMC. This last time I just went to the web site and picked a church, and when I'm out of town I pretty much just look for a UMC to attend. I never thought I'd be that loyal, but I turned out to be. They seem to have the intellect of a mainline church with the hospitality and modern style of an evangelical church, which is what I love.

Qyöt27 · Mar 3, 2011

WiredSpirit said:
Are you UMC or the Methodist Church of Great Britain? I always had the impression in the UMC that our churches abroad were more "high" and traditional. Here the styles vary a lot, but I'd say Methodists are more likely to have contemporary or informal services than other denominations. I've been to one in Ohio where instead of seats there are tables set up and serve food during the service. My church, and I'd say half or more are this way, is low-church and contemporary. Our pastor has done liturgy a couple of times, but he always has to explain what he's doing and what to do beforehand.

Speaking of ecumenicalism though, we are about to start our Lenten breadfasts with the ELCA and UCC.

It's very regional. We didn't have all the Contemporary-flavored stuff until about 10 years ago, if I recall correctly.

I actually tended to understand British Methodism as being more low church and small group-oriented than the UMC, since there was more pressure to break from the Church of England early on as Non-Conformists (although that certainly doesn't stop Anglican parishes from being of a Wesleyan bent).

Qyöt27 · Mar 3, 2011

Aino said:
Hi!
So I've been looking into other churches lately, and while I've heard of the Methodist church before I know nearly nothing of it... So I wanted to hear from you guys how you'd define the core of methodism. What do you think is most essential about your churches? What kind of worship services do you have? And what is your stance on other churches? Like would you cooperate with Lutherans or Pentecostals for example?
Thanks for taking time answering my questions.

-Aino

A good portion has already been covered, but Methodism is somewhat diverse, to say the least.

I would probably say one of the biggest focuses is the Wesleyan view of grace - Prevenient, Justifying, and Sanctifying. Prevenient grace being that which "came before", the grace that God has freely given to everyone and which enables us to seek Him. Justifying grace is more-or-less the conversion experience, and Sanctifying grace is the growth in faith. That system sort of underlies a lot of other attitudes toward things. This is part of why you might find Methodists more apt to view salvation in terms of a continual process than a one-time event.

Methodists typically don't place a lot of emphasis on end times stuff. You'll find a wide variety of opinions on that, ranging from classical premillennialism to idealism or amillennial preterism. Dispensationalism (i.e. Left Behind type views) should be a minority, but in some areas with strong influence from it, I wouldn't be surprised to see it creep in. Accordingly, there's not too much in the way of fire-and-brimstone preaching.

The style of worship depends on the individual church, usually. Many here in the U.S. have a Contemporary and a Traditional service, and some may have a third 'Chapel' (or 'Casual') service which is less formal than the Traditional but not as relaxed as the Contemporary.

For instance, at a Traditional service one should/could expect:

The Reverend to wear the traditional vestments.
A full choir.
Some hymns sung only by the choir, others sung by the congregation with the choir leading.
Communion to be served at the altar rail at the front of the sanctuary.
A greater degree of call-and-response sections, and maybe a few more hymns and Scripture readings.
Often the last service to be held on Sunday mornings.

At the 'Chapel' service:

No choir. Hymns sung only by the congregation.
The Reverend might wear normal dress clothes, or might be in vestments.
Communion to be served by intinction, or in the pews. I'd lean more toward intinction, though.
This might be the earliest service held.

At the Contemporary:

The choir is replaced by a praise band and hymns replaced by Praise & Worship or CCM numbers, or hymns rearranged into the aforementioned styles.
The Reverend to wear normal dress clothes.
Communion to be served in the pews or by intinction, leaning more toward in the pews.
The use of PowerPoint presentations to show lyrics or slideshows or other 'new media' sorts of presentations.
Depending on the church, might not be held in the sanctuary.

Mr Dave · Mar 4, 2011

WiredSpirit said:
I didn't think there were any or many UMCs over there, but you never know. All of the UMC churches I've been to, even the more traditional ones, use some type of visual media rather than hymn or liturgy books.

I don't know anything about Free Methodists (is it a big church?). There is one around here, but it is in a real small building that looks abandoned.

...

I only knew the Free Methodists existed, but didn't know much about them so had to do a little search It's a very small church (about 28 congregations across the whole of the UK) and is mostly concentrated in Cornwall (the far South West) and Lancashire (the North West). They're part of the American Free Methodist and their church symbol follows the American Methodist Cross and Flame as opposed to the British Methodist Orb and Cross.

Visual Media is starting to come in, there's a reshuffle going on at the moment with regards to the whole music side of things with a new hymn book and a push for more visual worship technology.

I think in some ways we're more high/traditional and in other ways more low/contemporary so it's hard to say who is more one way or the other.

Using what Qyöt27 says about the different ones at a standard service here;

-The minister would always wear collared shirt and dog collar regardless of how high or low the service was, but rarely/never cassocks, stoles (some will wear cassocks for baptisms/weddings/funerals and I've only ever known one Methodist minister wear a stole). In very low churches you would still expect a dog-collar.

-Choirs are very rare and if they exist, they are there to guide the rest of the congregation in contemporary of traditional hymns. Anything sung only by the choir would be a rare event.

-Communion is always served at the altar rail no matter how high or low. Jesus calls and we respond by physically going to the rail. The bread is always given by the presiding minister, the wine by a steward.

-Most still have an organ for most hymns. A few use only a worship band and sing some trad, mostly modern worship songs. Some use piano/organ for traditional hymns and a little worship group (keyboard/guitar) for contemporary hymns and have an even number of each.

VolRaider · Mar 4, 2011

Here's what comes to my mind when I hear the word Methodist:
1) some of the best singing you will ever hear,
2) intense Bible study - which is how the phrase "Methodist" was coined in the first place,
3) ministry to everybody and everywhere, including prisons - the old time circuit riders immediately pop in my head.

Mr Dave · Mar 4, 2011

utmtsumethodist said:
Here's what comes to my mind when I hear the word Methodist:
1) some of the best singing you will ever hear,
2) intense Bible study - which is how the phrase "Methodist" was coined in the first place,
3) ministry to everybody and everywhere, including prisons - the old time circuit riders immediately pop in my head.

Yeah that covers it.

Maid Marie · Mar 4, 2011

Aino said:
Haha, tack detsamma. Det är bra att höra att nån har lärt sig svenska utan att ha tvingats att göra så.

Eller har en bra online translater!

Maid Marie · Mar 4, 2011

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia about the Free Methodist Church which started in the 1900s

The name "Methodist" was retained for the newly organized church because the founders felt that their misfortunes (expulsion from the Methodist Episcopal Church) had come to them because of their adherence to doctrines and standards of Methodism. The word "Free" was suggested and adopted because the new church was to be an anti-slavery church (slavery was an issue in those days), because pews in the churches were to be free to all rather than sold or rented (as was common), and because the new church hoped for the freedom of the Holy Spirit in the services rather than a stifling formality

The rest of the article is here Free Methodist Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I am more familiar with it since I live in the same region as where it was founded. I have never visited a service, but I heard once from a former FB pastor that their services were more formal than a Nazarene one. But that was a few years ago so who knows?

The general idea in my mind to describe Methodism is love and grace.

Aino · Mar 6, 2011

Hmm yeah. Thanks for the replies everyone! I think I should really go and see what the local church has the coming week. Should be interesting as well as just awesome seeing something new like that... Like I've never in my life attended a service elsewhere then in the three main churches here (Lutheran, Orthodox & Pentecostal) so it's an experience in and of itself.

GadFly · Mar 19, 2011

Methodism in a nutshell? It is not the ritual that makes us but it is the worship of God in the Spirit that does make us as Christ said, truth and Spirit. The UMC is a fundamentalist church in a nutshell because it accepts the scriptures as the primary source of knowledge. Its doors should be closed to those seeking a liberal approach to preaching Jesus Christ. That is the UMC in a nutshell according to all written records I know of. There may be a written record somewhere that uses another criteria of Methodism but it is unknown to me.

What would be the core of Methodism in a nutshell?

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