What would a moderate christian standpoint on homosexuality look like?

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

No Username Found said:
Here is a data mine of the Bible regarding homosexuality. Find one verse that does not condemn it.

What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?

Scripture is not referring to sexual orientation. Scripture is referring to sex outside of marriage and promiscuity.

How do I support that claim? Becasue female gays are mentioned in far fewer places.
The reason for that is that female gays are less promiscuous and....."Flaming". Less obvious.

This lack of condemnation for females shows that the problem is flagrant sexual flaunting of sex immorality by males. Sexual orientation is not the problem scripture is referring to.
It is referring to Roman orgies. Not sexually private, committed relationships. And there was sexually private, committed relationships when the scriptures were written. Those are not referred to.

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

No Username Found said:
Agreed. What is considered radical left today may be considered moderate tomorrow. But the word of God endures forever.

We can ignore what is obsolete and think of it as just history.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

No Username Found said:
What does this have to do with my post. I honor the word of God over the feelings of people. Facts dont care about feelings. If God said it's a sin, it is a sin regardless of your feelings. It would be unloving to stand by and watch someone walk down a path to hell. If you had a loved one who had a drug addiction, would you remain quiet while they slowly kill themselves? No, I would imagine you would confront them because you loved them. I would want someone to confront me if I was on a path to death. And that is what sin is, a path to death. You are not loving your neighbor by remaining silent about their sin...period. However, nobody here is suggesting any condemnation for homosexuals either. The moderate position is to merely tolerate homosexuality from a legal perspective. However, the moderate perspective will not support, condone, or encourage homosexuality because doing so is to condone sin. Something the Bible explicitly tells us not to do.

Sin is what I think is wrong in my heart.
And not what you see as wrong.

Ezekiel 36:26
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

1 Samuel 16:7
For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

No Username Found said:
The moderate position is to merely tolerate homosexuality from a legal perspective.

SkyWriting said: ↑
How about, treat other people, just as you would wish them to treat you?

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

Jon Osterman said:
As I said, you are free to condemn my "sexual exploits" if you like. I don't really care. However, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that homosexuals should be fired from their jobs or denied healthcare. That would be discriminatory. And if their relatives ostracize them, that is the right of their relatives and not your call.

I am not sure what you are trying to judge. I have actually never worn a condom (is that a problem for you?) so all my sexual interactions with my wife are unprotected. My wife is my own age, and neither of us have ever used drugs. I have had one sexual partner in my entire life, and we don't engage in perversions. Does that satisfy you?

So I don't treat others in ways I would object to be treated.

So If I object to your relationship with your wife, and condemned it in your church or outlaw it, that's ok? You may not be a leader in your church? Is that ok by you for me to do that to you?

RDKirk · Apr 7, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Sin is what I think is wrong in my heart.
And not what you see as wrong.

Ezekiel 36:26
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

1 Samuel 16:7
For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

When and only when your mind has been transformed out of conformance with the pattern of the world and conforms to the mind of Christ.

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will. -- Romans 12

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

RDKirk said:
When and only when your mind has been transformed out of conformance with the pattern of the world and conforms to the mind of Christ.
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will. -- Romans 12

Sorry. All the epistles, are not Jesus.
Jesus always forgave and never judged or condemned.
Thank you!

See also - New Covenant

RDKirk · Apr 7, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Jesus always forgave and never judged or condemned.
Thank you!

See also - New Covenant

That doesn't seem to respond to my post.

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

RDKirk said:
That doesn't seem to respond to my post.

Jesus acted and spoke differently than some books and most letters advise.
This is central to the thread.
Jesus never pointed a finger at a sin and said "Sin!". Never.
His followers seem to enjoy the activity.
I know that many believe God calls them to judge others.

hedrick · Apr 7, 2019

Here's an interesting example of a "purple church," a church that is trying to be moderate: Pastoring A Purple Church: 'I Absolutely Bite My Tongue Sometimes'

dms1972 · Apr 7, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Not sexually private, committed relationships. And there was sexually private, committed relationships when the scriptures were written. Those are not referred to.

You'll have to provide some support for that assertion that there was 'sexually private, committed relationships' in those days?

If its true there should be something somewhere in Plato, Heroditus, Xenophone, or Athenaeuas to indicate that?

What we know of Greek pederasty (remember both the terms homosexuality and sexual orientation are very recent) is that most men who engaged in it already had wifes. The attraction was to young males, which casts considerable doubt on there being any long term relationships.

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

dms1972 said:
You'll have to provide some support for that assertion that there was 'sexually private, committed relationships' in those days?

If its true there should be something somewhere in Plato, Heroditus, Xenophone, or Athenaeuas to indicate that?

What we know of Greek pederasty (remember both the terms homosexuality and sexual orientation are very recent) is that most men who engaged in it already had wifes. The attraction was to young males, which casts considerable doubt on there being any long term relationships.

Which also covers my statement that scripture references to fornication and promiscuity and not gender selection. Thank you.

FireDragon76 · Apr 7, 2019

hedrick said:
Here's an interesting example of a "purple church," a church that is trying to be moderate: Pastoring A Purple Church: 'I Absolutely Bite My Tongue Sometimes'

My church tends to be like that, though my pastor definitely wants gay people to feel welcome (and we have several that are active in our church's ministry), he is careful not to press the issue much beyond that point. After all, there are still a few people in our congregation that are very much struggling to understand these issues, and many come from culturally conservative or even religiously fundamentalist backgrounds.

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

hedrick said:
Here's an interesting example of a "purple church," a church that is trying to be moderate: Pastoring A Purple Church: 'I Absolutely Bite My Tongue Sometimes'

Good for him. Scripture covers that.
What Does the Bible Say About Being Quiet / Controlling tongue? - OpenBible.info

dms1972 · Apr 7, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Which also covers my statement that scripture references to fornication and promiscuity and not gender selection. Thank you.

Gender selection - what do you mean?

What I wanted was some support for your assertion, as I think its just how you want to believe it was, but some evidence is necessary.

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

dms1972 said:
Gender selection - what do you mean?

What I wanted was some support for your assertion, as I think its just how you want to believe it was, but some evidence is necessary.

I mean the denouncements in scripture are not referring to a persons sexual orientation. If you were alive 2000 years ago, you'd know they were referring to "orgies."

RDKirk · Apr 7, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Jesus acted and spoke differently than some books and most letters advise.
This is central to the thread.
Jesus never pointed a finger at a sin and said "Sin!". Never.
His followers seem to enjoy the activity.
I know that many believe God calls them to judge others.

And that is still a non sequitur.

JackRT · Apr 7, 2019

The best Biblical exploration of the issue of homosexuality is the essay Homosexuality and the Bible by the late Walter Wink, Former Professor of Biblical Interpretation, Auburn Theological Seminary, New York City.

http://www.godweb.org/wink.htm

hedrick · Apr 7, 2019

dms1972 said:
You'll have to provide some support for that assertion that there was 'sexually private, committed relationships' in those days?

If its true there should be something somewhere in Plato, Heroditus, Xenophone, or Athenaeuas to indicate that?

What we know of Greek pederasty (remember both the terms homosexuality and sexual orientation are very recent) is that most men who engaged in it already had wifes. The attraction was to young males, which casts considerable doubt on there being any long term relationships.

I'm not familiar with the primary sources, but Gagnon has some references to long-term, equal relationships, apparently from Mark Smith, "Ancient Bisexuality." I'm not clear, however, how common it was, nor would any of the available references be specific to the area Paul was writing to in the 1st Cent. Unfortunately, we don't have the kinds of survey results that are done today for the ancient world. Without really good evidence, though, I'd assume that human behavior in ancient times is sufficiently similar to today, that surely there must have been some adult relationships between people that today we would assess as being homosexual. The main question in Christian discussions today, though, is whether Rom 1 referred to such relationships. (And for that matter, whether it represents Paul's view or something he is about to reject in Rom 2.)

We are moving into territory that is not really relevant to the OP, and that the poster probably wanted to avoid. (It is permitted by the rules of this forum, but I'm not sure it's a good idea here.)

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Apr 7, 2019

SkyWriting said:
We can ignore what is obsolete and think of it as just history.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

You do realize that there is much scripture in the New Testament which forbids homosexuality? Do you consider the New Testament "obsolete" too?

What would a moderate christian standpoint on homosexuality look like?

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