what would a miscarriage praise God for?

[Jamdoc]

So, first off, I do believe that those who die unborn are with the Lord, 2 Samuel 12 has David saying he'll go to his dead son but his son would not come back to him, unless David was planning on going to hell or annihilation, that tells us where the child went.

but I mean, if a baby is miscarried, never born, never achieves consciousness even... so they never even had personal sinful thought and after dying as far as we know the elect don't sin anymore... so the forgiveness of sin, Jesus dying for them.. what does that mean to them in context? Would they even have a concept of sin having never experienced it? What are they thankful to Jesus for? Would they even understand salvation? What would be their praise? They have no life experience.
Would they just recite the words of other men in the psalms, not even really understanding what they mean?

 

[Petros2015]

Angels aren't pre-existant if I am not mistaken; they accumulate experiences, but not human ones
They have no human life experience, or death experience but they have a lot of "other" experience
It might be something like that
Obviously I'm just hypothesizing

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So, first off, I do believe that those who die unborn are with the Lord, 2 Samuel 12 has David saying he'll go to his dead son but his son would not come back to him, unless David was planning on going to hell or annihilation, that tells us where the child went.

but I mean, if a baby is miscarried, never born, never achieves consciousness even... so they never even had personal sinful thought and after dying as far as we know the elect don't sin anymore... so the forgiveness of sin, Jesus dying for them.. what does that mean to them in context? Would they even have a concept of sin having never experienced it? What are they thankful to Jesus for? Would they even understand salvation? What would be their praise? They have no life experience.
Would they just recite the words of other men in the psalms, not even really understanding what they mean?

There are four views on the condition of children under the age of accountability.

1) Saved by election.
2) Saved because they would have believed therefore elected.
3) Saved automatically because of their innocence.
4) Not saved.

What influences ones decision is whether all sinned in Adam. Not everyone adheres to Augustinian theology. Jesus Christ of Nazareth made it a point that all children are innocent. Blessings.
Mark 10
13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.

 

[bling]

There are four views on the condition of children under the age of accountability.

1) Saved by election.
2) Saved because they would have believed therefore elected.
3) Saved automatically because of their innocence.
4) Not saved.

What influences ones decision is whether all sinned in Adam. Not everyone adheres to Augustinian theology. Jesus Christ of Nazareth made it a point that all children are innocent. Blessings.
Mark 10
13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.

If they did no wrong why are they not in a safe condition not needing to be saved, since they were never lost?

 

[Der Alte]

I think these vss. cover small children, infants, those who live in remote areas and have never heard the gospel, the intellectually challenged etc.

Romans 4:15​

(15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.​

Romans 5:13​

(13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.​

 

[Maria Billingsley]

If they did no wrong why are they not in a safe condition not needing to be saved, since they were never lost?

They are automatically spared ( saved) from the second death.
Blessings.

 

[bling]

They are automatically spared ( saved) from the second death.
Blessings.

they are not guilty, so they are not deserving of the second death.

 

[Blade]

Well... some of us hold on to they are with Him. I do not know this pain at all.. my wife does

 

[Jamdoc]

There are four views on the condition of children under the age of accountability.

1) Saved by election.
2) Saved because they would have believed therefore elected.
3) Saved automatically because of their innocence.
4) Not saved.

What influences ones decision is whether all sinned in Adam. Not everyone adheres to Augustinian theology. Jesus Christ of Nazareth made it a point that all children are innocent. Blessings.
Mark 10
13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.

Whether they go to heaven or not is not the topic I established I believe they do, my point was, what would their relationship with Jesus be like, as they will not have the context to understand salvation.

 

[Jamdoc]

I think these vss. cover small children, infants, those who live in remote areas and have never heard the gospel, the intellectually challenged etc.

Romans 4:15​

(15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.​

Romans 5:13​

(13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.​

yes again, the topic is not "where do babies go if they die

I'm establishing they're in heaven, what I'm wondering about is, what's their relationship with Christ, what are they thankful for?
what praise would they give when salvation from sin is not something they personally experience.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Whether they go to heaven or not is not the topic I established I believe they do, my point was, what would their relationship with Jesus be like, as they will not have the context to understand salvation.

We are made in God's image and we have the vessel that carries His Holy Spirit, the flesh. This is where a relationship starts. Though scripture is silent on this about children , Jesus Christ of Nazareth made a point that the Kingdom of God is made of such individuals so it is reasonable to think a relationship exists.
Blessings.

 

[Michie]

Ecclesiastes 11:5

5 As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother’s womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things.

Psalms 139:13-16

13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.



Isaiah 55:8-9

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[Jamdoc]

Ecclesiastes 11:5

5 As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother’s womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things.

Psalms 139:13-16

13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.



Isaiah 55:8-9

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

So basically the answer is "I don't know"

cause.. I mean, surface level, it seems like they'd just regurgitate what's written in the bible and not even know what any of it meant, they'd have no understanding of sin, or suffering, because they died before they could consciously experience it.

Adam and Eve in the garden, no concept of death, suffering, or sin.
Jumped right into it because "thou shalt surely die" didn't really mean anything to them. What was dying?

 

[Michie]

So basically the answer is "I don't know"

cause.. I mean, surface level, it seems like they'd just regurgitate what's written in the bible and not even know what any of it meant, they'd have no understanding of sin, or suffering, because they died before they could consciously experience it.

Adam and Eve in the garden, no concept of death, suffering, or sin.
Jumped right into it because "thou shalt surely die" didn't really mean anything to them. What was dying?

You ignored the other verses plus the fact we are born into a fallen word and everything that comes along with that.

 

[Jamdoc]

You ignored the other verses plus the fact we are born into a fallen word and everything that comes along with that.

Well I mean, in the case of a miscarriage, their body wasn't formed, it was being formed, but spontaneously aborted.

hard to say "wonderfully made" if you were scrubbed out while still "under construction" no?
Hard to go to a construction site, when they have 1 wall up on a house and then stop working on it and demolition it, and say "it's a beautiful house"

 

[Michie]

Well I mean, in the case of a miscarriage, their body wasn't formed, it was being formed, but spontaneously aborted.

hard to say "wonderfully made" if you were scrubbed out while still "under construction" no?
Hard to go to a construction site, when they have 1 wall up on a house and then stop working on it and demolition it, and say "it's a beautiful house"

You are excluding the soul. The fact that we are born into a fallen world where sickness, disease run rampant. None of this was God’s intent. There is still a soul to consider in this scenario. God’s thoughts are not our thoughts. We think along the earthly plane because it is all we know. That’s natural but God is above us. My miscarried child had a soul. I’m sure there is thanks and praise from him that thanks God for creating him in the first place and gave him the ability to praise Him now. It does not make the miscarriage right but given the circumstances of a fallen world, I’m sure there is still praise to be given to his Creator and to be in His presence.

 

[Der Alte]

yes again, the topic is not "where do babies go if they die
I'm establishing they're in heaven, what I'm wondering about is, what's their relationship with Christ, what are they thankful for?
what praise would they give when salvation from sin is not something they personally experience.

If we are to believe Colton Burpo then miscarried infants are in heaven with Jesus.

 

[Jamdoc]

If we are to believe Colton Burpo then miscarried infants are in heaven with Jesus.

... so many people totally not grasping the topic. The topic is not "where do they go" the topic is "what kind of relationship will they have with a savior when they had never had a conscious thought that could be called sin"

they won't understand what sin is, or pain, or suffering or death, since they died before they even achieved any sort of consciousness.

 

[Michie]

... so many people totally not grasping the topic. The topic is not "where do they go" the topic is "what kind of relationship will they have with a savior when they had never had a conscious thought that could be called sin"

they won't understand what sin is, or pain, or suffering or death, since they died before they even achieved any sort of consciousness.

The body or the soul? It seems you are thinking strictly in the earthly realm. There are some things that are a mystery. It’s not called faith for nothing. God’s ways are not your ways. There are many things we cannot comprehend until we reach the other side.

 

[Jamdoc]

The body or the soul? It seems you are thinking strictly in the earthly realm. There are some things that are a mystery. It’s not called faith for nothing. God’s ways are not your ways. There are many things we cannot comprehend until we reach the other side.

Genesis 2

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man is formed body first, then becomes a living soul, not soul first, then a body to contain it.
as to when in gestation the body becomes a living soul? I don't know,
but before there is a body, I don't believe in preexisting souls.

we are meant, and have always been meant, to be corporeal beings. Being without a body is an unnatural state.