What/where is purgatory?

[JAIN]

I was just wondering about purgatory. I do not understand it, and I just want to know why people think that it exists, and why it "needs" to exist.
I would also like to know where it is in the Bible, because I have not yet been able to locate anything about it.


Thanks!

 

[AvgJoe]

I was just wondering about purgatory. I do not understand it, and I just want to know why people think that it exists, and why it "needs" to exist.
I would also like to know where it is in the Bible, because I have not yet been able to locate anything about it.


Thanks!

Hi JAIN! Welcome to CF!

Purgatory is a belief held by Catholics. Myself, I do not believe in it. It is not found anywhere in the Bible.

 

[heron]

We studied the purgatory concept in history classes, covering a time when the Church had connected to strongly with the government.

The concept is taken from passages like 2 Maccabees 12, which is not part of the Protestant-approved Bible.

An interesing site that responds to the disagreement over purgatory:
http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/how2purg.htm, stating...

"the Catholic Church insists:
(1) that there is a purification after death,
(2) that this purification involves some kind of pain or discomfort, and
(3) that God assists those in this purification in response to the actions of the living. Among the things the Church does not insist on are the ideas that purgatory is a place or that it takes time."

Some of the confusion comes from a relatively little amount written about afterlife in the Bible. There are quick references to sheol, hades, the grave, hell, heaven, the heavenly Jerusalem, and then beautiful descriptions of afterlife in Revelations.

Whenever we get the laws into our grasp, we tend to take on an air of authority that we know it all. I suspect that this is an area that God wants to keep us humbly reminded that He is in charge, and we are all subject to the same leveling at the end of our lives here.

 

[Dark_Lite]

I was just wondering about purgatory. I do not understand it, and I just want to know why people think that it exists, and why it "needs" to exist.
I would also like to know where it is in the Bible, because I have not yet been able to locate anything about it.


Thanks!

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY



1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.[604] The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:[605] As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.[606] 1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."[607] From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.[608] The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead: Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.[609]

 

[heron]

You asked for the Catholics to respond, and I am a Protestant, so I'm not respecting your request...

Protestants differ from this in seeing the sacrifice of the Lamb of God as the complete and immediate fulfillment for being washed clean...holy and pure in God's eyes. They see that we are still accountable for our actions, but repentance and acceptance of this cleansing gets us past the consequences of judgement.

Of course with so many denominations and individual interpretations, you will find some different views of the afterlife. There has been some forum discussion on sheol, and a holding place for those who haven't heard of this sacrifice...I think the threads were a week or two ago in this same category.

 

[JAIN]

You guys are AWESOME here!

I do not believe in Purgatory, but I just wanted to know more about it, just incase someone were to ask me.

Thanks again for your answers!

I REALLLLLLY APPRECIATE IT!

 

[heron]

Good! It's also helpful to keep reading what the Bible says about the afterlife, so that you have a clearer picture for yourself.

 

[Yahya]

Muslims believe in the agony of death: This is the time when the soul leaves the body. This process is not easy, it may be difficult and even painful. Agony of death purifies from evil deeds if you did not repent in this world.

Muslims believe that after death there is hugging and squeezing in the grave. We are from dirt and we become dirt and this process is difficult and painful. The degree depends on the degree of evil in your heart. This purifies sin.

Muslims believe in the trials of the grave when the angels Munkar and Nankir, peace be upon them, question the inhabitant of the grave in the grave. They ask: "Who is your Lord? What is your religion? Who is your prophet?". This is difficult and it purifies sin.

Muslims believe in punishment of the grave with purifies sin.

Muslims believe in the horrors, fear and punishments on the day of judgment which purifies sin.

On the Edenbridge or the Traverse to Paradise that crosses over Hellfire purifies sins.

Some people fall into hellfire and burn for a while until their sins are purified and then they go to Paradise.

Many will stay in hellfire for eternity because their sins cannot be purified.

Purgatory would be this period of purification from sin.

The less sins you take into the afterlife the earlier the purification ends. If you repent in this life from all sins then there is not purification process because you are already purified, InshaAllah.

 

[heron]

Yahya, this is interesting. It's very different from the shortcut version we hear tossed around, of the paradise. It seems to make death very stressful for people who are so willing to die for their causes. I suppose that leads everyone to thorough repentance!

 

[Anti Existance]

I have an amazing story of a woman who in her desperation commited suicide experienced purgatory and came back to tell the tale

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/suicide04.html

Her amazing Near Death experience will tell you what purgatory is like. I cannot possibly do justification by re-telling her story ,therefore please read her story

 

[heron]

Wow, that was worth taking time to read.

It parallels other near death stories I've heard, the mode of communication and the general presence of God as light (not quoting scriptures and picking at details.)

"The darkness continued in all directions and seemed to have no end, but it wasn't just blackness, it was an endless void, an absence of light. It was completely enveloping." ...ever wonder why God created the earth, with people and animals in it...

I heard a physician speak on this--a patient asked him to pray as he died. The doctor witnessed the man screaming about being in Hell, and asked to be resuscitated.

I can't remember the doctor's name, but found the same story:

http://www.testimonies.com.au/topics/hell_experiences_1.htm

 

[Avaya]

I would also like to know where it is in the Bible, because I have not yet been able to locate anything about it.


Thanks!

Take that as a clue! LOLLOL It's not there because it's not biblical, because God didn't 'make it up', man did. I sort of think it's sacreligious, because it's lessens the meaning of Hell as created by God. I think it's a way to make those who do believe in it try to rationalize Hell - as though those who do bad sins will be in a worse hell than those who do good sins. Yeah, right.

 

[Sketcher]

Yes, in fact when you study the New Testament (especially Phillipians) there really is no room for Purgatory. And that's why this Protestant doesn't believe in it.

 

[God Child]

Purgatory seems to be for the living rather than the dead

 

[Voice of Thunder]

I was just wondering about purgatory. I do not understand it, and I just want to know why people think that it exists, and why it "needs" to exist.
I would also like to know where it is in the Bible, because I have not yet been able to locate anything about it.


Thanks!

Sorry my friend, that place is not mentioned in the Bible. Hell exists, there is no in between here. You cannot pay your way into heaven, there is only one way...that is through Jesus Christ, God's son only. Receive Him as Lord and Savior, when you ask Jesus into your life, no longer trusting in you but in Him to save you and set you free and make you whole, by His way in the Bible. There is either Heaven or Hell. No purgatory. This is believed by the Catholics, which I was one at one time. By accepting Jesus Christ He has taught me His truth, which the truth has set me free from the snagglement and bondages of this world and its' system. I am free!!! You can too.
Love in Christ!!!
Matthew 22:37, Matthew 6:33, John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10

 

[BillH]

From 1 Cor 3:11-15:

For no other foundation can one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble, each man's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Note that Paul is only talking about those who have accepted God's grace and have "built their foundation" on Jesus Christ. In other words, these are the people that are being saved rather than condemned. Yet, because of some of their works, they may go through some sort of purifying fire. This purification is Purgatory. The notion that sinful humans may have to go through some sort of purification before seeing God face-to-face occurs at many other points throughout scripture (e.g. God sends an angel to purify Isaiah's lips with buring coal before he can become a prophet and speak the Word of God; even Moses may not see God's face and live because of his sins and the sins of the Israelites, etc.).

Now, other than the notion that there might be some sort of purification after death, we don't know too many specific details about Purgatory, and the official teachings of the Catholic Church do not offer many. There are many elaborate theories developed by individual Catholics about what it might be like, but these would not be much different than, say, the Left Behind authors making lots of fanciful claims about the end times that do not exist in scripture.

 

[Metanoia02]

Protestants believe in Purgatory, they just don't have a name for it.

We all know that we sin in this life, no matter whether you are saved or not. We will carry this tendency towards sin to our grave. We also know that in order to be in the presence of the Almighty, this tendency towards sin must some how be removed. We know that between our last breath and our entrance into the New Jerusalem, something occurs that perfects our soul.

Protestants deny Purgatory because it is a Catholic theological term that doesn't occur in the Bible. They just refuse to name what it is.

 

[WarriorAngel]

We know that once we are condemned to hell, we do not return.


We know once in heaven, we have no need of prayers.

Did Paul pray for his dead friend?...therefore, his friend could have been somewhere other than heaven or hell.


First of all, the Jews in Jesus' time offered prayers for the dead. In the Apocryphal Book of the Second Book of Maccabees: “Judas Maccabeus took up a collection that amounted to ten thousand drachmas of silver. This he brought to Jerusalem to provide a sin offering for those who had fallen in battle”. The Scripture says that "it is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they might be loosed from their sins".(2 Macc. 12:43ff.)


St. Paul in the Second Letter to Timothy prayed for a friend of his, Onesiphorous, that the Lord might "grant unto him that he might find mercy on that final day, the Day of Judgment" (2 Tim. l:16ff).

 

[heron]

The Maccabees books were not approved in the Protestant canon or theology, so you can quote that as something Catholics believe in, but most Protestants will not consider that quotable as scripture.

We tend to go with...

Hebrews 7:27

27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.





1 Peter 3:18
18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

Hebrews 10:10






10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

With these thoughts on being redeemed once for all, Protestants do not see the need for a transition time of purification. We know that we are not technically perfect in our life on earth, but that God has made the provision for us to be perfect in His eyes in our erroneous life on earth, through our faith in His sacrifice and our continual repentance.

 

[Metanoia02]

With these thoughts on being redeemed once for all, Protestants do not see the need for a transition time of purification. We know that we are not technically perfect in our life on earth, but that God has made the provision for us to be perfect in His eyes in our erroneous life on earth, through our faith in His sacrifice and our continual repentance.

We are not talking about how we are regarded by God while on Earth. We are talking about what happens after we die. Do you not believe that we must be absolutely perfect to be in the presence of the Almighty, not just regarded as perfect?