What WAS the sin of Sodom and Gomorrh

[davedjy]

Leviticus proves that at least as far back as 250 BC, "arsenokoites" meant a man having sex with another man and just happens to totally destroy your last cut/paste from yet another unqualified gay website.

No, actually what it proves is that slavery was very well accepted at the time of your little copy/paste session of justifying your position on this subject.

 

[davedjy]

Irrelevant digression which has no bearing on this topic whatsoever.

If we are going to quote from Leviticus, let's stay consistent, or I can very easily cite you for accepting homosexuality as a sin, and remove slavery from your Leviticus vocabulary...it's called CHERRY PICKING.

 

[Der Alte]

4 SOURCES NOW SAYAING THAT IT WAS MASTURBATION, I'M SORRY BUT I BELIEVE TONY CAMPOLO - HIGHLY RESPECTED IN THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY OVER YOUR 1 WEBSITE WHICH STILL DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING.

I don't mean quoting some guy saying some word or other was translated masturbation. Show me where any credible historical source translates arsenokoites or malakoi as masturabtion. Your sources have claimed both.

Also still waiting proof from the Catholic Encyclopedia. Seen a lot of empty boasting but no proof.

 

[Der Alte]

If we are going to quote from Leviticus, let's stay consistent, or I can very easily cite you for accepting homosexuality as a sin, and remove slavery from your Leviticus vocabulary...it's called CHERRY PICKING.

I wasn't saying anything about anything being a sin. I was proving the meaning of one word from an IRREFUTABLE, credible, verifiable source, 250+ years before the gay community claims Paul made up the word, it was supposedly a slang word, nobody knew the meaning, etc.

No, actually what it proves is that slavery was very well accepted at the time of your little copy/paste session of justifying your position on this subject.

IRRELEVANT to this discussion of the meaning of the word "arsenokoites" which OBTW according to the Greek LXX, 250 BC, and the early church fathers ca. 150-255 AD, meant homosexual-male/male sex.

 

[davedjy]

I don't mean quoting some guy saying some word or other was translated masturbation. Show me where any credible historical source translates arsenokoites or malakoi as masturabtion. Your sources have claimed both.

Also still waiting proof from the Catholic Encyclopedia. Seen a lot of empty boasting but no proof.

I will send it to you, or scan it into the computer, I have to send away for it, not everything is online.

Anyways, I can prove you wrong with inconsitencies in translation right here (read and weep):

TRANSLATIONS (Along with year and rendering)

Koine Greek (56) malakoi, arsenokoitai
Latin Vulgate (405) molles, masculorum concubitores
Wyclif (1508) lecchouris, synne of Sodom
Tyndale (1525) weaklings, abusers of themselves with mankynde
Reims-Douai (1609) effeminate, liars with mankind
King James (1611) effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind
Revised Version (1881) effeminate, abusers of themselves with men
American Standard Version (1901) effeminate, abusers of themselves with men
Revised Standard Version (1946) sexual perverts
Jerusalem Bible (French) (1955) effeminate, people with infamous habits
Jerusalem (French ed.) depraved persons of sordid morals
Interlinear Greek-English NT (1958) voluptuous persons, Sodomites
The Amplified Version (1958) those who participate in homosexuality
New American Standard Bible (1963) effeminate, homosexuals
Today's English Version (1966) homosexual perverts
Jerusalem Bible (German) (1968) sissies, child molesters
Jerusalem Bible (English) (1968) Catamites, Sodomites
The Living Bible (1971) homosexuals
New International Version (1978) male prostitutes, homosexual offenders
New King James Version (1979) homosexuals, sodomites
Jerusalem, New (Engl. 1985) self-indulgent sodomites
New American Catholic (1987) boy prostitutes practicing homosexuals


Inconsistencies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anything else you want to try on me? LOL

 

[davedjy]

I wasn't saying anything about anything being a sin. I was proving the meaning of one word from an IRREFUTABLE, credible, verifiable source, 250+ years before the gay community claims Paul made up the word, it was supposedly a slang word, nobody knew the meaning, etc.



IRRELEVANT to this discussion of the meaning of the word "arsenokoites" which OBTW according to the Greek LXX, 250 BC, and the early church fathers ca. 150-255 AD, meant homosexual-male/male sex.

It's in the Vulgate too , (I think), do you know how to translate? I'm not sure if this is the old translation or a new one added.

1 Cor 6:9-10

9 An nescitis quia iniqui regnum Dei non possidebunt? Nolite errare: neque fornicarii, neque idolis servientes, neque adulteri,

10 neque molles, neque masculorum concubitores, neque fures, neque avari, neque ebriosi, neque maledici, neque rapaces regnum Dei possidebunt.

 

[Der Alte]

It's in the Vulgate too , (I think), do you know how to translate? I'm not sure if this is the old translation or a new one added.

1 Cor 6:9-10

9 An nescitis quia iniqui regnum Dei non possidebunt? Nolite errare: neque fornicarii, neque idolis servientes, neque adulteri,

10 neque molles, neque masculorum concubitores, neque fures, neque avari, neque ebriosi, neque maledici, neque rapaces regnum Dei possidebunt.

What is in the vulgate? What is it you think this proves.

 

[davedjy]

What is in the vulgate? What is it you think this proves.

That I think has the old translation:

the Latin version of the Bible, prepared chiefly by Saint Jerome at the end of the 4th century a.d., and used as the authorized version of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Der Alte]

I will send it to you, or scan it into the computer, I have to send away for it, not everything is online.

Or you could look up the appropriate section in the online Catholic Encyclopedia, copy it and post the link here.

Anyways, I can prove you wrong with inconsitencies in translation right here (read and weep):

You prove absolutely NOTHING, ZERO, ZIP, NADA, with this. This is just meaningless digression and proves nothing about the 250 BC LXX, which I have posted, or the early church ca. 150-255 AD, which I have also posted.

All it shows is there are people, like you, who translate it differently. You have said that both "arsenkoites" and "malakois" were interpreted as "masturbation" Maybe someone like you made the questionable translations.

TRANSLATIONS (Along with year and rendering)

Koine Greek (56) malakoi, arsenokoitai
Latin Vulgate (405) molles, masculorum concubitores
Wyclif (1508) lecchouris, synne of Sodom
Tyndale (1525) weaklings, abusers of themselves with mankynde
Reims-Douai (1609) effeminate, liars with mankind
King James (1611) effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind
Revised Version (1881) effeminate, abusers of themselves with men
American Standard Version (1901) effeminate, abusers of themselves with men
Revised Standard Version (1946) sexual perverts
Jerusalem Bible (French) (1955) effeminate, people with infamous habits
Jerusalem (French ed.) depraved persons of sordid morals
Interlinear Greek-English NT (1958) voluptuous persons, Sodomites
The Amplified Version (1958) those who participate in homosexuality
New American Standard Bible (1963) effeminate, homosexuals
Today's English Version (1966) homosexual perverts
Jerusalem Bible (German) (1968) sissies, child molesters
Jerusalem Bible (English) (1968) Catamites, Sodomites
The Living Bible (1971) homosexuals
New International Version (1978) male prostitutes, homosexual offenders
New King James Version (1979) homosexuals, sodomites
Jerusalem, New (Engl. 1985) self-indulgent sodomites
New American Catholic (1987) boy prostitutes practicing homosexuals

Inconsistencies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anything else you want to try on me? LOL

The Latin, German, French you must PROVE not just copy/paste that this is the correct translation of the original. That leaves the RSV, for many people "sexual pervert" is synonymous with "homosexual."

And you can post meaningless stuff like this until your keyboard wears out and it will NEVER prove anything about the LXX and the ECF. Just a waste of time because you have no argument.

 

[davedjy]

Or you could look up the appropriate section in the online Catholic Encyclopedia, copy it and post the link here.



You prove absolutely NOTHING, ZERO, ZIP, NADA, with this. This is just meaningless digression and proves nothing about the 250 BC LXX, which I have posted, or the early church ca. 150-255 AD, which I have also posted.

All it shows is there are people, like you, who translate it differently. You have said that both "arsenkoites" and "malakois" were interpreted as "masturbation" Maybe someone like you made the questionable translations.



The Latin, German, French you must PROVE not just copy/paste that this is the correct translation of the original. That leaves the RSV, for many people "sexual pervert" is synonymous with "homosexual."

And you can post meaningless stuff like this until your keyboard wears out and it will NEVER prove anything about the LXX and the ECF. Just a waste of time because you have no argument.

Sexual pervert is not the same as homosexual, but nice try, tho! I'm sure Paul wasn't a bigot like some people here.

Try debating the new information Brieuse (sp?) brought.


Have fun!

 

[davedjy]

Or you could look up the appropriate section in the online Catholic Encyclopedia, copy it and post the link here.



You prove absolutely NOTHING, ZERO, ZIP, NADA, with this. This is just meaningless digression and proves nothing about the 250 BC LXX, which I have posted, or the early church ca. 150-255 AD, which I have also posted.

All it shows is there are people, like you, who translate it differently. You have said that both "arsenkoites" and "malakois" were interpreted as "masturbation" Maybe someone like you made the questionable translations.



The Latin, German, French you must PROVE not just copy/paste that this is the correct translation of the original. That leaves the RSV, for many people "sexual pervert" is synonymous with "homosexual."

And you can post meaningless stuff like this until your keyboard wears out and it will NEVER prove anything about the LXX and the ECF. Just a waste of time because you have no argument.

Just because you SAY it proves nothing, doesn't mean it doesn't prove anything.

You are a piece of work, I have cited COUNTLESS credible sources, and you think by your own opinion you can refute them. INSANE -- go debate someone else and believe gays are of the devil or whatever you do!