What was the first Christain denomination around ?

[MatthewEn]

??

 

[OneOfTheMany]

Christian

 

[stray bullet]

??

In the first Century, Christians were first called "the Way" and then "Christian"

By the end of the century, they called their Church "Catholic".

After that, Coptic and Orthodox were applied as names to Churches. Then 500 years later, protestantism broke into 30,000 different groups with unique names.

The first Church, the original Church, and the Church founded by Christ is Catholic, in union with the Roman See, founded by Peter and carrying the authority of Peter. In the fifth Century, the North Africans broke away and created their own Churches. In the 11th Century, the eastern Catholics borke away and formed the now dying, Orthodox Church.

In the 16th Century, men greedy for power creating their own Church, their own denominations. They created new doctrines and beliefs... and formed protestantism. It was a rejection of the orginal Church.

Sadly, many person, including myself, where born into this.

 

[Ave Maria]

In the beginning the Church was Catholic. The Catholic Church is the first Church and is the original Church. It is also the Church that has the original teachings in their entirety today. You will find the entirety of true Christian teaching in no other church.

 

[icedtea]

The firstchurch had no denomination. It just was.
Then, years later, people started calling it a name, and anyone who disagreed in any way was considered not the true church.
There is no "true" denomination nowadays, just the Holy Spirit liivng in all believers.
If all churches crumbled to the ground right now, local people would meet in other buildings and still be the true church.

But I thought the op meant which was the first government recognized church, legally; the only one in the yellow pages, as it were.

 

[Ave Maria]

The firstchurch had no denomination. It just was.
Then, years later, people started calling it a name, and anyone who disagreed in any way was considered not the true church.
There is no "true" denomination nowadays, just the Holy Spirit liivng in all believers.
If all churches crumbled to the ground right now, local people would meet in other buildings and still be the true church.

But I thought the op meant which was the first government recognized church, legally; the only one in the yellow pages, as it were.

I'd have to disagree that there is no true denomination today. The Catholic Church is very true in all its doctrines and teachings. The Catholic Church is not a denomination though.

 

[icedtea]

Oh, I know you disagree. But the op asked, and I wanted to give my opinion too!

 

[repentant]

In the first Century, Christians were first called "the Way" and then "Christian"

By the end of the century, they called their Church "Catholic".

After that, Coptic and Orthodox were applied as names to Churches. Then 500 years later, protestantism broke into 30,000 different groups with unique names.

The first Church, the original Church, and the Church founded by Christ is Catholic, in union with the Roman See, founded by Peter and carrying the authority of Peter. In the fifth Century, the North Africans broke away and created their own Churches. In the 11th Century, the eastern Catholics borke away and formed the now dying, Orthodox Church.

In the 16th Century, men greedy for power creating their own Church, their own denominations. They created new doctrines and beliefs... and formed protestantism. It was a rejection of the orginal Church.

Sadly, many person, including myself, where born into this.

Wow you need a history lesson. And how exactly is the Orthodox Church dying?

250 million a decade or so ago, to 350 million now, doesn't seem like dying to me..

And for your history lesson, Rome excommunicated the other 4 Patriarchates (Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria) not vice versa. This was because the rest of the Church refused to follow Romes claim to ulitimate authority and infalliablity of the Pope, which never was there..

The Church was called "Catholic" to claim it's universal appeal, not as the name of the Church, and def. has nothing to do with the Roman Catholic Church..

 

[stray bullet]

Wow you need a history lesson. And how exactly is the Orthodox Church dying?

250 million a decade or so ago, to 350 million now, doesn't seem like dying to me..

And for your history lesson, Rome excommunicated the other 4 Patriarchates (Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria) not vice versa. This was because the rest of the Church refused to follow Romes claim to ulitimate authority and infalliablity of the Pope, which never was there..

The Church was called "Catholic" to claim it's universal appeal, not as the name of the Church, and def. has nothing to do with the Roman Catholic Church..

Read the Bull, the Excommunication was only to the Patriach of Constaninople because he attacked Latin parishes. The East used this as an excuse to break away and form their own church.

Yes, the Orthodox are dying, over the last 1000 years- assaulted by infidels including Muslims and atheists.

Rome's authority was found in the Ecumenical Councils and professed by the eastern Church fathers.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Denominations are a phenomena of Protestantism . .

Before Protestantism there were no denominations. . .

Outside of Protestantism there are no denominations . . . .



.

 

[icedtea]

Ah! So then the question is which WAS the first denomination? It would have to be a protestant one.

 

[repentant]

Read the Bull, the Excommunication was only to the Patriach of Constaninople because he attacked Latin parishes. The East used this as an excuse to break away and form their own church.

Yes, the Orthodox are dying, over the last 1000 years- assaulted by infidels including Muslims and atheists.

Rome's authority was found in the Ecumenical Councils and professed by the eastern Church fathers.

He attacked Latin Parishes?

It wasn't only to Const., it was only placed on the alter of Agia Sophia because Const. was "Second after Rome". The other Pats. agreed with Const. and therefore stayed with them. Romes authority was given in Ecum. Councils, but not the authority they have today. Only "first among equals", was the authority given to them. This authority was then handed to Const. when Rome left.

And how can you say 4 broke away from one? The four did not try to change anything. The 4 stayed together and stood by the Councils. The one lone Rome broke away..

 

[repentant]

Denominations are a phenomena of Protestantism . .

Before Protestantism there were no denominations. . .

Outside of Protestantism there are no denominations . . . .



.

This I can agree with.

 

[thereselittleflower]

This I can agree with.

 

[stray bullet]

He attacked Latin Parishes?

It wasn't only to Const., it was only placed on the alter of Agia Sophia because Const. was "Second after Rome". The other Pats. agreed with Const. and therefore stayed with them. Romes authority was given in Ecum. Councils, but not the authority they have today. Only "first among equals", was the authority given to them. This authority was then handed to Const. when Rome left.

And how can you say 4 broke away from one? The four did not try to change anything. The 4 stayed together and stood by the Councils. The one lone Rome broke away..

How did Rome break away from the other four? All Rome did was issue a personal excommunication against the Patriarch of Constantinople after he closed and attacked Latin parishes.

"First among equals" was not his only position, the Council of Chalcedon made it clear his decrees were infallible, equal to scripture, Tradition and the ECs themselves.

Rome never left, the East left because they thought alike and wanted completely power over their own Church, without the influence of Rome. Fathers like Maximus and Cyprian make it clear- there is nothing outside the Roman See- those who leave it are outside the Church.

 

[Knowledge3]

In the first Century, Christians were first called "the Way" and then "Christian"

By the end of the century, they called their Church "Catholic".

After that, Coptic and Orthodox were applied as names to Churches. Then 500 years later, protestantism broke into 30,000 different groups with unique names.

The first Church, the original Church, and the Church founded by Christ is Catholic, in union with the Roman See, founded by Peter and carrying the authority of Peter. In the fifth Century, the North Africans broke away and created their own Churches. In the 11th Century, the eastern Catholics borke away and formed the now dying, Orthodox Church.

In the 16th Century, men greedy for power creating their own Church, their own denominations. They created new doctrines and beliefs... and formed protestantism. It was a rejection of the orginal Church.

Sadly, many person, including myself, where born into this.

Actually the first church was the earliest First Christian Church.

Between 33 A.D and before Nicaea 325 A.D.

 

[RccWarrior]

There have been many posts on here recalling how Catholics were the first Christians. The Early Church Fathers and history records this. Protestanism started in the 1500's..I'm sorry but after people are repeating this a gazillion times it's tiring...

 

[Knowledge3]

There have been many posts on here recalling how Catholics were the first Christians. The Early Church Fathers and history records this. Protestanism started in the 1500's..I'm sorry but after people are repeating this a gazillion times it's tiring...

Incorrect.

The first Christians were those repented converted to Christianity during Jesus' ministry 33 A.D. on earth.

 

[NewToLife]

How did Rome break away from the other four? All Rome did was issue a personal excommunication against the Patriarch of Constantinople after he closed and attacked Latin parishes.

Rome passed into the hands of the Cluniac reformers who developed the basis of the current heterodox Roman Catholic ecclessiology in an attempt to assert control within the west where they were locked in a power struggle with secular powers. This is straight forward recorded history not mere polemic. It's pretty clear historically that Rome was engaged in what amounted to a massive power struggle that caused conflict not only with the other ancient sees and also internally in western Europe, not least in Germany and England. Its a nonsense to try and paint a picture of Rome as not adopting an innovative ecclesiological position here. As for the excommunications its plain fact that it was a Roman Cardinal who initiated Rome's departure from the Church, by his attempts to remove another he effectively removed Rome itself. Rather amusingly St Cyprian who you later cite makes it quite clear that this is a possibility for Rome if she is unable to control her arrogance.

"First among equals" was not his only position, the Council of Chalcedon made it clear his decrees were infallible, equal to scripture, Tradition and the ECs themselves.

Actually it doesnt.

Rome never left, the East left because they thought alike and wanted completely power over their own Church, without the influence of Rome.

Its odd that 80% of the Church should object on a point that even many of those within the Roman See were disputing. The natural assumption ( and historical evidence ) would suggest that it was in fact Rome making the false claim to authority, not everyone else.

Fathers like Maximus and Cyprian make it clear- there is nothing outside the Roman See- those who leave it are outside the Church.

This is a huge misrepresentation, particularly of St Cyprian as anyone who's actually read beyond the typical heavily selective quotation used to justify Catholic claims will know.

As far as Orthodoxy dying goes I would suggest that some Catholics are simply fantasising when they make such claims.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

.



To the question of the thread...



1. In the NT, we find individual Christians who collectively are the church, and we find congregations - a gathering/assembly of those who claim to be Christians in a given place and time. It's clear even in the NT that those congregations were taking on institutional aspects.



2. There's no evidence of any denomination(s) in the NT. There are some pre-denominational aspects here and there (Jerusalem Council, the "collection for the saints") but it's pretty elementary.



3. The institutional aspects of congregations grew as membership did, as ESPECIALLY as the church moved westward. The Roman Empire was OBSESSED with power, control, centrality and these began to bleed into Christianity as it increasingly became Roman in structure and operation. What we think of as "denomination" is an outgrowth of this romanization. I don't decry that (I'm actually a supporter of denominations), but I do see it as a result of Christianity moving into the Greco/Roman culture. Once Christianity became semi-official in the 4th Century, this process soared.



4. All this evolved. I think it's impossible to know at what point we have a "denomination." I'd likely give the nod to the Eastern Orthodox Church, however. It seems largely moot to me.



My perspective...


Pax!


- Josiah



.