- Aug 4, 2012
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I don't think we should let "competent Biblical scholarship" do our thinking for us.
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I don't think we should let "competent Biblical scholarship" do our thinking for us.From my reading of the Bible and referring to competent Biblical scholarship.
"Uncover the nakedness of" is an idiom for "have sex". It does not speak directly to the moral nature of nakedness itself. For example, if used literally, I can say that I uncover the nakedness of my children before they take a bath. This, we would all agree on, is not immoral.
I don't think we should let "competent Biblical scholarship" do our thinking for us.
I would say it's clear that "knowing" someone meant sleeping with them (and "sleeping" is another idiom). Anyhow, that doesn't mean everything is idiomatic,
My fear was that this thread was going to suggest we all run around naked, and I don't think that would be wise.
If the purpose of clothing was to prevent sexual arousal, why did God cover Adam and Eve before there was anyone else around to see them?
God designed the priests garments - God states that the priests were to wear pants under their garments so that they should not in any way be uncovered as they minister before the Lord. It is a Bible maxim that to appear before the Lord in any way uncovered or naked -- is sin.
Exodus 20:26
'And you shall not go up by steps to My altar, so that your nakedness will not be exposed on it.'
Exodus 28
41"You shall put them on Aaron your brother and on his sons with him; and you shall anoint them and ordain them and consecrate them, that they may serve Me as priests. 42"You shall make for them linen breeches to cover their bare flesh; they shall reach from the loins even to the thighs. 43"They shall be on Aaron and on his sons when they enter the tent of meeting, or when they approach the altar to minister in the holy place, so that they do not incur guilt and die. It shall be a statute forever to him and to his descendants after him.…
So long as Adam and Eve were sinless they had robes of light such as the Angels wear - as a covering. They did not appear naked before the Lord.
Matthew 17:2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light
Ps 104:2 Covering Yourself with light as with a cloak,
God made the first animal-skin clothes for Adam and Eve - it was sin to be naked before the Lord.
I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.
We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:
And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.
Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:
Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
God designed the priests garments - God states that the priests were to wear pants under their garments so that they should not in any way be uncovered as they minister before the Lord. It is a Bible maxim that to appear before the Lord in any way uncovered or naked -- is sin.
Exodus 20:26
'And you shall not go up by steps to My altar, so that your nakedness will not be exposed on it.'
I don't know if that was a yes or no, but I really don't believe in letting other people tell me what the Bible means.Never let the facts get in the way of a good story??
My only concern is that the thread not be used to justify sexual immorality.True - but we can let ourselves be "informed" by the known/shown idioms
I was up in Canada once. The trees kept getting smaller as we headed north.Not in Canada --- depending on the season we contend with cold, black flies and mosquitoes. Thank God just one at a time.
I don't know if that was a yes or no, but I really don't believe in letting other people tell me what the Bible means.
But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. Matt 23:8 RSVWhy does the church have teachers?
agreed I think that is not a direction that would be good to go downMy only concern is that the thread not be used to justify sexual immorality.
There is much symbolism in Genesis. The Garden of Eden represents God's rest or righteousness. There are two creation stories in Genesis and Eden is man's new creation into the body of Christ.I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.
We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:
And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.
Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:
Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
After they made coverings out of the fig leaves, we read:
And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."
____________________________________________
My thoughts:
1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.
2. Even though Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves, they still hid from God when they heard Him coming. They claimed they did not want God to find them naked. It appears they thought their makeshift fig leaf coverings were inadequate. The fig leaves did not fully satiate their need.
Note: Shame in the OT world was connected to public reputation. Shame is the public exposure of guilt. In Genesis, Adam and Eve were attempting to prevent God from shaming them by fulfilling their own needs themselves. They were guilty, not of being naked openly (no one was there to see them besides God!), but of violating God's command and fracturing themselves from his gracious provisions.
3. Nakedness is seen throughout Scripture as neediness and/or weakness. This new awareness of their nakedness on the part of Adam and Eve suggests their boarder awareness of their total dependence on God - who had provided for them in the garden for all their needs.
4. In this sense, nudity is being communicated as nonmoral. It is soley being used to communicate what they were lacking. As Job states eloquently, "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return."
5. For clarity, I'm not suggesting we should walk around naked. I believing clothing has an important purpose; however, I am suggesting that we shouldn't be so concerned with nakedness as to make exposure (accidental or not) an inherent immoral act. Context and intentions matter. We live under the New Covenant of Grace.
Your thoughts?
I once teased a coworker, I can't wait for the resurrection because everyone is going to be naked. Interesting question to add to yours. And while your adding interesting questions, ask if God was naked walking in the garden. Anyway.1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.
5. For clarity, I'm not suggesting we should walk around naked. I believing clothing has an important purpose; however, I am suggesting that we shouldn't be so concerned with nakedness as to make exposure (accidental or not) an inherent immoral act. Context and intentions matter. We live under the New Covenant of Grace.
Understand that the New Covenant governs a relationship between God and man.We live under the New Covenant of Grace.
I come to believe through my reading and study that SOMEONE TOLD THEM THEY WERE NAKED and shamed them. Care to guess who?I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.
We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:
And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.
Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:
Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
After they made coverings out of the fig leaves, we read:
And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."
____________________________________________
My thoughts:
1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.
2. Even though Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves, they still hid from God when they heard Him coming. They claimed they did not want God to find them naked. It appears they thought their makeshift fig leaf coverings were inadequate. The fig leaves did not fully satiate their need.
Note: Shame in the OT world was connected to public reputation. Shame is the public exposure of guilt. In Genesis, Adam and Eve were attempting to prevent God from shaming them by fulfilling their own needs themselves. They were guilty, not of being naked openly (no one was there to see them besides God!), but of violating God's command and fracturing themselves from his gracious provisions.
3. Nakedness is seen throughout Scripture as neediness and/or weakness. This new awareness of their nakedness on the part of Adam and Eve suggests their boarder awareness of their total dependence on God - who had provided for them in the garden for all their needs.
4. In this sense, nudity is being communicated as nonmoral. It is soley being used to communicate what they were lacking. As Job states eloquently, "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return."
5. For clarity, I'm not suggesting we should walk around naked. I believing clothing has an important purpose; however, I am suggesting that we shouldn't be so concerned with nakedness as to make exposure (accidental or not) an inherent immoral act. Context and intentions matter. We live under the New Covenant of Grace.
Your thoughts?
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