What was finished?

[SavedByGrace3]

Joh 19:30
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

When Jesus spoke those powerful words on the cross, what precisely was the "IT" that was finished. Bible students down through the ages have used this phrase of Jesus to mean many things including the "finish" of ages, dispensations, justice, the law, His sufferings, redemption... etc. etc.

What was He talking about?

FYI, the Greek for the phrase is actually "It has been finished"... meaning whatever it is that was finished was finished before he said the words. It was two verses prior to this that He realized that it was indeed finished:

Joh 19:28
28 After this, when Jesus realized that everything was now completed, he said (in order to fulfill the Scripture), "I'm thirsty."


Here are the literals showing the tense:
Joh 19:30
(LITV) Then when Jesus took the vinegar, He said, It has been finished. And bowing His head, He delivered up the spirit.
(YLT) when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, he said, `It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit.

If you respond, please answer this also....
If you think He was saying that all the requirements of redemption had been met and therefore it was the redemptive work that was finished, then why did He proceed on and die?
Why did He lie in the grave for three days and three nights? (I won't even get into the "hell" idea!).
Why did He not just swoop down off the cross and ascend unto the Father?

Thanks before hand for your responses.
Dids

 

[HumbleMan]

That's a good question. Be looking forward to everyone's responses.

I guess I've always kind of thought that since He said He came not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it, He meant that the trasformation from Law to Grace was finished with His sacrifice on the cross.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Joh 19:30
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

When Jesus spoke those powerful words on the cross, what precisely was the "IT" that was finished. Bible students down through the ages have used this phrase of Jesus to mean many things including the "finish" of ages, dispensations, justice, the law, His sufferings, redemption... etc. etc.

What was He talking about?

FYI, the Greek for the phrase is actually "It has been finished"... meaning whatever it is that was finished was finished before he said the words. It was two verses prior to this that He realized that it was indeed finished:

Joh 19:28
28 After this, when Jesus realized that everything was now completed, he said (in order to fulfill the Scripture), "I'm thirsty."


Here are the literals showing the tense:
Joh 19:30
(LITV) Then when Jesus took the vinegar, He said, It has been finished. And bowing His head, He delivered up the spirit.
(YLT) when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, he said, `It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit.

If you respond, please answer this also....
If you think He was saying that all the requirements of redemption had been met and therefore it was the redemptive work that was finished, then why did He proceed on and die?
Why did He lie in the grave for three days and three nights? (I won't even get into the "hell" idea!).
Why did He not just swoop down off the cross and ascend unto the Father?

Thanks before hand for your responses.
Dids

I believe, the thing that was finished at that point was his earthly ministry. He will go on from this pont to be high piest and intercessor or all men, but will do so in he heavenly tabernacle. Even when he is resurected, there is no large public meetings and sermons on the mount. Just small appearances to affirm his resurrection and to comfort his disciples and family.

His earthly ministry was to realign Gods covenant to mankind. The Jews had made covenant inclusion a matter of ethnicity. If one wanted to become a follower of the God of Israel, you had to undergo the process of proselyting, including Hebrew school, circumcision, and baptism. But this was not Gods plan at all. From the very beginning all men have access to Him. All you had to do was believe and become obedient to his commandments. All through-out Torah, it says over and over, "This law is for you and the foreigner that dwells with you. One ordinance on Torah for both". You become a son of God by adoption. Yeshua's ministry tore down the middle wall of separation, which was physical, and fell at that same moment, AND it was doctrinal, through Rabbinical Judaim. And the veil was torn. All the markers of separation of Jew and Gentile came down.

When the spirit is poured out on the Gentiles just as it was on the Jews and without their first converting and being circumcised, the adoption was complete, and God made it clear, that Gentiles are included. You enter through faith in Gods Messiah and you follow God though obedience to his word. This is why the true believers are described in scripture as those who have the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah and are obedient to the commandments of God. Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12

CIF

 

[Svt4Him]

I believe the Greek can go both ways, but since Jesus wouldn't have said it in Greek, it's debatable whether it's "It is finished" or "It has been finished", but either way, I believe His work on earth. I also believe the payment of sins, as it is said they were nailed to the cross.

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it

 

[Iddie4him]

I think what Christ is referring to in John Chapter 19, Verse 30 is that his work on earth in his physical body had been finished. But, How then did he appear to the disciples and prove himself to Thomas ?? He had to have appeared after the resurection in a physical body for thomas to see the nailprints and put his hand in Christs side.... Right ?? The disciples were afraid cause they thought Christ was an apparition(Ghost). But, At his speaking to them, they believed that he had risen from the grave. He said It is finished also I believe to signify that all of the prophecies concerning his being treated as a criminal and being crucified to death had come to pass as he said.

 

[Jim B]

I believe the Greek can go both ways, but since Jesus wouldn't have said it in Greek, it's debatable whether it's "It is finished" or "It has been finished", but either way, I believe His work on earth. I also believe the payment of sins, as it is said they were nailed to the cross.

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it

I agree, S. But could it also have meant the law was finished?

Colossians 2.14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

\o/

 

[enoch son]

It was the creation that was finished.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I believe the Greek can go both ways, but since Jesus wouldn't have said it in Greek, it's debatable whether it's "It is finished" or "It has been finished", but either way, I believe His work on earth. I also believe the payment of sins, as it is said they were nailed to the cross.

Thank you saint...
But then, just to carry that forward, if you can tell me...
if it was finished.... then why did He have to die?

 

[hraedisc]

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Hebrews 3:1
Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Hebrews 8:1
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
Hebrews 10:21
and having a High Priest over the house of God,


A dead Savior couldn't save anyone.

A dead Jesus NEEDED to:
RISE from the dead,
ASCEND into heaven,
MEDIATE as High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary.

After that He still needs to:
FINISH the atonement in heaven and
RETURN to raise the dead in Christ and change the living saints.

What was finished on the cross was His earthly ministry as a sacrifice. This corresponded with the outer court services of the OT tabernacle/sanctuary. After rising from the dead Jesus could ascend into heaven to BEGIN his role as a high priest, culminating in the antitypical services of the cleansing of the sanctuary on the Day of Atonement.

Hebrews 9
22And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

Jesus is still doing work that is necessary for our redemption when the book of Hebrews is written many years after the cross. He still is.

 

[hraedisc]

More of what wasn't finished at the cross:

When Jesus STOPS interceding in heaven's sanctuary:

Revelation 8
4And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel's hand. 5Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake.
6So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Human opportunity for doing right and becoming holy (through the work of Christ in our lives) comes to an end when this censer is "thrown to the earth."

"Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done." Rev 22:11-12.

 

[mejbaker]

Joh 19:30
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

When Jesus spoke those powerful words on the cross, what precisely was the "IT" that was finished. Bible students down through the ages have used this phrase of Jesus to mean many things including the "finish" of ages, dispensations, justice, the law, His sufferings, redemption... etc. etc.

What was He talking about?

FYI, the Greek for the phrase is actually "It has been finished"... meaning whatever it is that was finished was finished before he said the words. It was two verses prior to this that He realized that it was indeed finished:

Joh 19:28
28 After this, when Jesus realized that everything was now completed, he said (in order to fulfill the Scripture), "I'm thirsty."


Here are the literals showing the tense:
Joh 19:30
(LITV) Then when Jesus took the vinegar, He said, It has been finished. And bowing His head, He delivered up the spirit.
(YLT) when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, he said, `It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit.

If you respond, please answer this also....
If you think He was saying that all the requirements of redemption had been met and therefore it was the redemptive work that was finished, then why did He proceed on and die?
Why did He lie in the grave for three days and three nights? (I won't even get into the "hell" idea!).
Why did He not just swoop down off the cross and ascend unto the Father?

Thanks before hand for your responses.
Dids

Check the 22nd Psalm. Jesus started out saying My God My God why hast thou forsaken me. He ended up saying it is finished. The King James doesn't record this, but some translations do. Jesus was speaking the word of God right up to the end. He defeated Satan the same way He always did, by speaking the word of God.

 

[TheScottsMen]

If we wanna go about in the Psalm, yet another Pslam refers to Jesus in Hell (not paradise)

 

[mejbaker]

If we wanna go about in the Psalm, yet another Pslam refers to Jesus in Hell (not paradise)

Jesus fulfilled the Abrahamic Covenant. Abraham shed His blood in the act of circumcision, as part of the blood covenant, Jesus shed His blood, and finished what God started with Abraham. A blood Covenant is considered the most binding act 2 people can perform. How much more, when Gods word was on the line. See Genesis the 17th chapter. The lamb of God was laid on the alter by the high priest of God and shed the most holy blood there is. God started a process to redeem mankind, through Abraham, Jesus fulfilled the requirements of this Covenant. He totally finished what He came to do.
Thats why we call it the New Covenant or New Testament. We sometimes forget.

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree''), 14. that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15. Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
16. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds,'' as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed,'' who is Christ.
17. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
18. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19. What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
20. Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21. Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
22. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

I've got to go now, If you want to talk about Jesus going to hell, maybe later?

 

[flyfishing]

ITs rather simple. He finished the covenant and then sealed with his death... And ressurection..

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Flyfishing,

How does one finish or put an end to an eternal covenant. Does that not seem impossible. Within the covenants of God are provisions that are to be realized at a later date. One of these provisions was that the Gentiles would be included in the family of God, that He would call out a people from among the Gentiles to be part of this family called Israel. Yeshua is the one who tore down the wall of separation (in doctrine) which made Jews exclusive recipients of the Covenant. The Kingdom of God broke in upon the earth, when this happened. It was the beginning of the eschaton, the end of the age, which is marked by the inclusion of the gentiles. And Gentiles do not have to become Jews to be part of the covenant. This was never a requirement of God. It was only a requirement of the corrupt Jewish authority of the 2nd Temple Period. Before that any Gentile could become a part of Israel without conversion. So now Gentiles are also adopted into the family of God by faith. The evidence of this is that when Gentiles believe in God, and accept salvation through Messiah Yeshua they too receive the Holy Spirit. And this happens without them first becoming Jews and being circumcised. Now all are under ONE COVENANT, which is for both Jew and Gentile. It is not a different covenant replacing the other. It is the renewal and fulillment of its later provisions to establish the Kingdom of God on earth.

It is not a lawless Kingdom where every man does what he considered to be best. For one man may think that it is neccessary to have a human sacrifice to appease God as he understands it, or to sacrifice his first child, or to circumcise their daughters removing all means of pleasure. These things happen all the time. But God established a code of conduct for his people, a standard that is for all the children of God.

Believing in Jesus by itself is not enough. Even the demons and satan himself believe that Jesus is the son of God. Belief is a Greek concept of salvation. It is not what you profess or believe (alone), it is how you live in response to what you believe. The angels believed God was God but they were not obedient to the code, and they abandonded their first estate. Eve believed, but she did not agree to obedeince. 5000 at Sinai believed in God, but did not think obedeince was neccessary, and the earth swallowed them up. Faith is always coupled with action. Following God is a matter of obedience to Him. You can not claim to be saved, and live in freelance behavior following your own heart, your own understanding.

CIF

 

[flyfishing]

Flyfishing,

How does one finish or put an end to an eternal covenant. Does that not seem impossible. Within the covenants of God are provisions that are to be realized at a later date. One of these provisions was that the Gentiles would be included in the family of God, that He would call out a people from among the Gentiles to be part of this family called Israel. Yeshua is the one who tore down the wall of separation (in doctrine) which made Jews exclusive recipients of the Covenant. The Kingdom of God broke in upon the earth, when this happened. It was the beginning of the eschaton, the end of the age, which is marked by the inclusion of the gentiles. And Gentiles do not have to become Jews to be part of the covenant. This was never a requirement of God. It was only a requirement of the corrupt Jewish authority of the 2nd Temple Period. Before that any Gentile could become a part of Israel without conversion. So now Gentiles are also adopted into the family of God by faith. The evidence of this is that when Gentiles believe in God, and accept salvation through Messiah Yeshua they too receive the Holy Spirit. And this happens without them first becoming Jews and being circumcised. Now all are under ONE COVENANT, which is for both Jew and Gentile. It is not a different covenant replacing the other. It is the renewal and fulillment of its later provisions to establish the Kingdom of God on earth.

It is not a lawless Kingdom where every man does what he considered to be best. For one man may think that it is neccessary to have a human sacrifice to appease God as he understands it, or to sacrifice his first child, or to circumcise their daughters removing all means of pleasure. These things happen all the time. But God established a code of conduct for his people, a standard that is for all the children of God.

Believing in Jesus by itself is not enough. Even the demons and satan himself believe that Jesus is the son of God. Belief is a Greek concept of salvation. It is not what you profess or believe (alone), it is how you live in response to what you believe. The angels believed God was God but they were not obedient to the code, and they abandonded their first estate. Eve believed, but she did not agree to obedeince. 5000 at Sinai believed in God, but did not think obedeince was neccessary, and the earth swallowed them up. Faith is always coupled with action. Following God is a matter of obedience to Him. You can not claim to be saved, and live in freelance behavior following your own heart, your own understanding.

CIF

Charles i will prepare a rebuttal if you so wish but lets set some ground rules.. First would be we use both testaments.. Second that when one scripture is shown lets discuss that one.. I am not suggesting a build a doctrine on one scripture either. I must say that i would like to do this same debate on the messianic forum.. Because i feel confident that what i believe is right..

I have a meal to help with for the poor, and a sermon on esther to study for.. So my rebuttal may take a while..

 

[flyfishing]

ITs rather simple. He finished the covenant and then sealed with his death... And ressurection..

AMEN!!!

If the font size bothers you why is it there???

 

[SavedByGrace3]

ITs rather simple. He finished the covenant and then sealed with his death... And ressurection..

If "it is finsihed" referred to "finishing the covenant", then it would not make sense to say He then had to do something else to "seal it" with His death and resurrection. If He had to do something else, then He was not finished. Either the words "it is finished" applied to something else, or the death and resurrection were intended to accomplish something else.
I favor the latter.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

AMEN!!!

If the font size bothers you why is it there???

It is not that the huge letters bother me... it is just that it is common knowledge that posts in all uppercase letters have the effect of being a "yell". All uppercase letters expanded to a huge font have the effect of hysterical "screaming".
People who have to yell and scream only do so because their position is so weak and untenable that they feel they have to add to it by these effects. Every time I see these huge letters I think to myself "this guy has nothing valuable to say... he is so unsure of his message that he has to scream it to give it weight".
Besides all that, it is just rude and it distracts from the overall content of the thread. It reminds me of something I would tell my 5 year old grandson to stop doing.
Please be nice and think of the others who are here to enjoy and learn.
Thanks
Didy

BTW... the reason the various font sizes exist is because of the way HTML interacts with your personal browser settings. People who have their browser set to enlarge the fonts (due to eye problems etc) will see your size 7 font as filling their entire screen.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Yeshua had to die to insure the resurrection, to overcome the power of sin AND death so that he would be the first-fruits offering, that those who follow will also share in the resurrection. If Yeshua was not raised up, neither shall we. Before he can be raised up, he must first die.

CIF