What to say to a non-believer

[Hentenza]

Hahaha, not going to happen. I have been completley against religion my entire life... I even recall the teacher calling me a blasphemous little sinner when I was 5 and I was told to leave the school for not believing in God... pathetic really.

Yes, that is quite pathetic.

I love to debate against religion, against anyone and all comers, I dont care if your a senile 80 year old jehova's witness who happened to knock on the wrong door, I'll still debate and argue against unproven belief

Have fun with that. lol

I live in Australia, it's got a very high number of Atheists and agnostics, religion is laughed at here, if you are a moderate christian here (basically meaning you actually admit to someone that you believe in God) you pretty well get laughed at. We are a very secular country and even our Prime Minister is an openly admitted Atheist.

Mmmm.....Do you consider 15.5% a majority?

See here.

 

[Cosmicteapot]

I didn't want to do this, but...

Cosmicteapot, you just proved my point. I knew that, no matter what evidence I posted, you would turn it around to merely coincidence or "wishful thinking".

I told you...I love to debate...and you're not very good at it... not one shred of evidence can come from an argument from personal experience...

I'm talking 17 years of infertility.

There are approximately 1 Billion women in the world who will have infertillity problems... most of them seek medical help and fall pregnant, and others fall pregnant naturally... you can find cases like yours and even more incredible than yours by getting on google...but your experience must have been God because you have God on your side... your miracle pregnancy makes the cover of womens magazines the world over almost once a fortnight...

I'm talking about a husband who, for all intents and purposes, should be in a wheelchair, but instead has a very physical job.

For all intents and purposes I should have slow motor function due to lack of blood in my body from birth and here I am with an average typing speed of 55 to 60 WPM on a computer... watch TV shows like "I shouldn't be alive" or "worlds most amazing videos" (that's right they are soooo uncommon you can make long running tv shows about these incidents)
THEY HAPPEN ALL THE TIME, TO EVERYONE!

I'm talking about the healing of my husband's relationship with his formerly abusive mother.

Because this type of scenario must have been divine intervention... there is just no other recorded case in history of people hating each other for years only to make ammends... seriously!

I'm talking about, while spending 2 years living and working in a homeless shelter, having all of our needs met WITH NO PHYSICAL MEANS OF SUPPORT. This included feminine hygiene products...and even the brand I preferred.

And yet children in Africa (and even in America!) have been dying everyday from easliy preventable disease, starvation and lack of clean water... I'm sure God will get around to that after he's done helping you

you are lucky to have been born in the U.S where the very poorest still have the means to survive thanks to a welfare system!

I'm talking about receiving direct instruction from God in certain aspects, including Him using me to reach someone else through a song I sang - a song that I had never even HEARD before until He told me to sing it.

People claim this sort of stuff ALL THE TIME!... this is how the argument from personal experience works...

"the creator of the universe takes an interest in me, approves of me, loves me, and will reward me after death; my current beliefs, drawn from scripture, will remain the best statement of the truth until the end of the world; everyone who disagrees with me will spend an eternity in hell.... An average Christian, in an average church, listening to an average Sunday sermon has achieved a level of arrogance simply unimaginable in scientific discourse--and there have been some extraordinarily arrogant scientists.

People never report these types of personal revelations from deities that they have had little or no previous cultural exposure to, for example a Muslim in Saudi Arabia reporting an encounter with the Holy Spirit, or a Mormon reporting a vision of Vishnu. This suggests that one's memory of such experiences is heavily influenced by one's pre-existing belief system.

And tell me...why wouldn't God whisper something useful in your ear like...ohhh I dunno THE CURE FOR CANCER!... perhaps he'll save that one for a scientist in the cancer research centre?... God wants you to sing a new song first?!

I'm talking about my daughter, when she was in Kindergarten, going to sit next to a new kid during breakfast because she felt that God led her to, when no one else would.

...but, I supposed this is all "intuition" and "wishful thinking".

I felt sorry for kids being bullied at school and helped them out all the time, it's a very simple question of morals that we pick up based on our social and ethical upbringings (FYI religion, the bible and God have nothing to do with morals!)

It's obvious to even a 5 year old that being kind to someone will help you in your survival rather than treating people badly...

 

[Cosmicteapot]

Mmmm.....Do you consider 15.5% a majority?

hahaha... the last time we did that census every 10 to 25 year old male ticked "jedi" under religion... seriously majority of Australians just simply "tick the box" and nothing more when it comes to a choice of religion, and even most church goers here seem to do it just to keep up appearances, when you question their faith they seem to know nothing about it!

I'll find the stats somewhere but I read recently that about 8% of Aussies are regular church goers and that in the last 10 years religion has lost out 23% of people confirming to have a religion.

also statistics seem to change after a decade!

I can show you statistics that suggest the most religious countries in the world are the least peaceful and the more secular countries are the most peaceful... (well I cant post links until I reach more posts) but you would object to that claim now aswell wouldn't you?

Look up Global Peace Index on wiki

 

[Singermom]

Cosmicteapot, you're a worse debator than I am. All of your answers boil down to either a) it happens all the time or b) why doesn't it happen all the time?

(I also have to add that, when I meant "no visible means of support", I meant NONE...not even welfare.)

As to why God chose to bless me with these things and not others, and why some other people are blessed...if I knew that, I'd BE God. I simply thank Him for what He has blessed me with.

 

[Cosmicteapot]

Cosmicteapot, you're a worse debator than I am. All of your answers boil down to either a) it happens all the time or b) why doesn't it happen all the time?

(I also have to add that, when I meant "no visible means of support", I meant NONE...not even welfare.)

As to why God chose to bless me with these things and not others, and why some other people are blessed...if I knew that, I'd BE God. I simply thank Him for what He has blessed me with.

... Yes that's EXACTLY what I'm saying... that's why you see these things happen and call them COINCIDENCES... I also made it clear that your examples of evidence for god, aren't special divine interventions... these things happen, this is what we can judge from statistical evidence that govern the lives of 6 billion people!

I won 1500 dollars on the first lottery ticket I ever bought the other day, I didn't have a vision to buy one, I didn't hear a voice... I just happened to buy a lotto ticket that won!....just like MILLIONS of other people who share the same stories! faith has nothing to do with it!!

You had no visible means of support... NONE!... then how silly are you?!

You are far more privilaged even in poverty than people in 3rd world countries...

oh and yes... people survive on no means of support all around the world without any notice from God... which is strange, because he seems to have the time in all his glory and power to help one person and all without actually doing anything to defy the laws of nature or something that may have occured anyway... strange

 

[Hentenza]

hahaha... the last time we did that census every 10 to 25 year old male ticked "jedi" under religion... seriously majority of Australians just simply "tick the box" and nothing more when it comes to a choice of religion, and even most church goers here seem to do it just to keep up appearances, when you question their faith they seem to know nothing about it!

That doesn't seem to be the case. From the same Australian site:

In 2001, 82% of Australians aged 65 years and over identified themselves as Christian, compared with 60% of 18-24 year olds.

Link

Also, how do you quantify your statement that every 10 to 25 year old ticked 'jedi" under religion when clearly that is not so? Have you met and asked this question to all 10 to 25 year olds in Australia?

I'll find the stats somewhere but I read recently that about 8% of Aussies are regular church goers and that in the last 10 years religion has lost out 23% of people confirming to have a religion.

I look forward to it.

also statistics seem to change after a decade!

The percentage of change values are listed in the Australian government site that I linked above. The population of Australia grew approximately 9% between the 1996 and the 2006 census while the population checking "no religion" grew at a bit under 8%. Of those 15 to 24 years of age the growth was still under the general population growth with 8.47%. The conclusion from this data is that the general population of Australia in the last 10 years is growing at a higher rate than that of people listing no religion. The data does not support your conclusions. This data is available at the same website by downloading a excel spreadsheet comparing the 1996 and 2006 census using the topic of religion.

I can show you statistics that suggest the most religious countries in the world are the least peaceful and the more secular countries are the most peaceful... (well I cant post links until I reach more posts) but you would object to that claim now as well wouldn't you?

What would be the relevancy of such a data?

 

[Cosmicteapot]

What would be the relevancy of such a data?

Wiki religion in Australia... religion is declining 4% every 5 years and Atheism is growing 3% every 5 years...take into account these growth rates and you can roughly guess the population is something like 60% religious to 30% Atheist and 10% not wishing to answer the question in 2010


To be honest I'd be happy if Atheism is on the rise (which it seems to be, especially in developed countries) but if religion is clawing back that's fine too, just more silly people to argue with