What things can't ID explain? What things can't evolution explain? Bring it on!

[jleslie48]

Natural selection is within genetically compatible species... another species doesn't come popping out.

This is absolutely false. Natural selection has nothing to do with "genetically compatible" anything. To understand the theory of evolution, you must start with why NS has nothing to do with genetically compatible species. If that isn't clear your going nowhere.

 

[jleslie48]

One thing that's true, is that traits devoloped in a population do pass on to offspring.

This is absolutely a false statement. I don't know what you are trying to pull, but to say this is ridiculous.

---update, my mistake, please ignore. I misread shinbits statement. --

 

[TeddyKGB]

This is absolutely a false statement. I don't know what you are trying to pull, but to say this is ridiculous.

Probably just poor wording on his part. I doubt he is promoting Lamarckism.

 

[jleslie48]

This is absolutely a false statement. I don't know what you are trying to pull, but to say this is ridiculous.

Please forget this entire post, I misread it the original statement. . - my bad.

 

[kingzfan2000]

Why does a hawk eat snakes and other small animals? Why would the ID make it airborne if its prey is on the ground? Think about it. What you've said doesn't make sense.

It actually makes a lot of sense, if your prey is on the ground but widely dispersed, being airborne is an efficient and effective way to cover a large area.

Your explanation of "poof, God just made it that way" doesn't even resolve the question you asked. The only reason you say its the best explanation is that nobody can ask another question about it because you just say "poof, god did it."

Science isn't about covering up the complexity behind nature, it's about asking questions to discover the nature of that complexity. ID just covers it up by saying "poof, God made it that way" and leaving questions alone.

Like I said, it tries to explain everything, and in the process explains nothing.

That still does not explain how wings originated or how creatures that previously could not fly, learned to fly. Did it start with just feathers on arms? If birds evolved from dinosaurs, what caused dinosaurs arms to turn into wings. Just having feathers is not enough to be able to fly as your body has to be suited for flight. So how did dinosaurs lose their arms and transform them into wings. Also, once these creatures finally had wings, how did they start flying? Was it trial and error? Did they climb trees and jump out? How did this ability progress from one generation to the next?

 

[LogicChristian]

That still does not explain how wings originated or how creatures that previously could not fly, learned to fly. Did it start with just feathers on arms? If birds evolved from dinosaurs, what caused dinosaurs arms to turn into wings. Just having feathers is not enough to be able to fly as your body has to be suited for flight. So how did dinosaurs lose their arms and transform them into wings. Also, once these creatures finally had wings, how did they start flying? Was it trial and error? Did they climb trees and jump out? How did this ability progress from one generation to the next?

LOL, you act like evolution says it happened in one generation.

That's a favorite of the ID crowd, make a bunch of wild claims about evolutionary theory that are absolutely baseless, and hope some of them stick.

Hey, others have failed, but perhaps you can tell us what the designers mechanism is for building his designs and making sure they work perfectly and in a balanced way like ID supporters contend? How did the designer actually create his designs?

Evolution has been observed, Intelligent Design has not. That's another major factor in one being science and the other being religious belief.

 

[kingzfan2000]

LOL, you act like evolution says it happened in one generation.

That's a favorite of the ID crowd, make a bunch of wild claims about evolutionary theory that are absolutely baseless, and hope some of them stick.

Hey, others have failed, but perhaps you can tell us what the designers mechanism is for building his designs and making sure they work perfectly and in a balanced way like ID supporters contend? How did the designer actually create his designs?

Evolution has been observed, Intelligent Design has not. That's another major factor in one being science and the other being religious belief.

I never claimed it happened in one generation. You say evolution has been observed? Show me. If you are talking about speciation, noone is claiming that speciation does not occur. Noone is claiming that organisms do not adapt. The debate is how much can something evolve. Can dogs and cats acquire wings since dinosaurs could? Maybe in 10 millions years there will be flying turtles and pigs. Is this possible and do you think its likely? If dinosaurs could grow wings and fly than any organism should be able to as well right? Why dont you make some evolutionary predictions for what animals today will be like in the future. I predict that dogs and cats will never be able to fly because they are not designed to fly. Do you think dogs and cats may possibly be able to fly one day millions of years from now?

 

[LogicChristian]

I never claimed it happened in one generation. You say evolution has been observed? Show me. If you are talking about speciation, noone is claiming that speciation does not occur. Noone is claiming that organisms do not adapt.

You just agreed then, evolution occurs. Good, we're getting somewhere.

The debate is how much can something evolve. Can dogs and cats acquire wings since dinosaurs could? Maybe in 10 millions years there will be flying turtles and pigs. Is this possible and do you think its likely? If dinosaurs could grow wings and fly than any organism should be able to as well right? Why dont you make some evolutionary predictions for what animals today will be like in the future. I predict that dogs and cats will never be able to fly because they are not designed to fly. Do you think dogs and cats may possibly be able to fly one day millions of years from now?

Ever seen a pterodactyl? Some dinosaurs obviously did grow wings.

Arguments from incredulity are fundamentally infalliable. Sorry buddy, that guff won't fly here.

 

[kingzfan2000]

Yes we do agree that evolution does occur. It adds variety and life would not be possible without it. Its a great mechanism of survival. Yes the pterosaur could fly, but what evidence do you have that it evolved from a nonflying dinosaur?

 

[LogicChristian]

Yes the pterosaur could fly, but what evidence do you have that it evolved from a nonflying dinosaur?

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrates/flight/pter.html

http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/exhibit.asp?tip=1&id=3574

This is just what I could pull off of a quick googling.

What evidence do you have, other than your own incredulity and disbelief that pterosaurs could not have evolved from another reptile ?

 

[kingzfan2000]

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrates/flight/pter.html

http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/exhibit.asp?tip=1&id=3574

This is just what I could pull off of a quick googling.

What evidence do you have, other than your own incredulity and disbelief that pterosaurs could not have evolved from another reptile ?

I didnt see any scientific evidence in either article that explained pterosaurs evolving from nonflying dinosaurs. I see some conjecture and hypothesizing, but thats it. And I didnt say that pterosaurs couldnt have evolved from another reptile. You said they grew wings and I asked what evidence do you have that they grew wings. It seems that both articles say that pterosaur evolution is not well understood right now.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Evolution has been observed, Intelligent Design has not. .

Are you smoking something illegal? Evolution has not been observed. We have never seen a species evolve into another species. You can't see evolution because it never has occured, you can see intelligent design all around you though.

 

[LogicChristian]

I didnt see any scientific evidence in either article that explained pterosaurs evolving from nonflying dinosaurs. I see some conjecture and hypothesizing, but thats it. And I didnt say that pterosaurs couldnt have evolved from another reptile. You said they grew wings and I asked what evidence do you have that they grew wings. It seems that both articles say that pterosaur evolution is not well understood right now.

There's always going to be questions and debate as how various forms evolved. That's what's great about science, we keep asking questions and keep trying to find out more.

The thing is, I was able to show you information that people do have ideas and research about how they evolved.

What's the creationist/ID belief on how pterosaurs got here? Poof! God made em! We don't need to ask any more questions because that's all we need to know.

Some science ID is, huh?

 

[kingzfan2000]

Actually speciation has been observed, the problem is that its still the same type of animal but its a new species. For example you can have a species of fish seperate and evolve seperately and they will eventually speciate and no longer be able to interbreed, but they will still be fish. This could continue indefinately but the offspring will always still be fish.

 

[LogicChristian]

Actually speciation has been observed, the problem is that its still the same type of animal but its a new species. For example you can have a species of fish seperate and evolve seperately and they will eventually speciate and no longer be able to interbreed, but they will still be fish. This could continue indefinately but the offspring will always still be fish.

Where exactly is the genetic dividing line between species? What prevents a fish from not being a fish? How is it prevented from becoming too different? What mechanism is it? Could you provide some literature to back up that there is an arbitrary dividing line that limits how far a population can be removed from its parent population?

Alot of it is what you call a "fish" as well. Species, families, orders, groups, all are somewhat arbitrary groups developed by humans to describe nature.

 

[kingzfan2000]

There's always going to be questions and debate as how various forms evolved. That's what's great about science, we keep asking questions and keep trying to find out more.

The thing is, I was able to show you information that people do have ideas and research about how they evolved.

What's the creationist/ID belief on how pterosaurs got here? Poof! God made em! We don't need to ask any more questions because that's all we need to know.

Some science ID is, huh?

So in your own words what are the ideas about how they evolved?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

What's the creationist/ID belief on how pterosaurs got here? Poof! God made em! We don't need to ask any more questions because that's all we need to know.

Some science ID is, huh?

You think evolution is better with it's poof! nothing made em!

 

[LogicChristian]

You think evolution is better with it's poof! nothing made em!

Where does evolution say that pterosaurs came into being from nothing, and poofed?

I think someone is grasping at straws just for the sake of arguing.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Where does evolution say that pterosaurs came into being from nothing, and poofed?

I think someone is grasping at straws just for the sake of arguing.

The first cause? you know...gas, dust, space exploded. Where did these matter come from? You say from nothing. That is supposed to be more rational than to say God made them?

 

[LogicChristian]

The first cause? you know...gas, dust, space exploded. Where did these matter come from? You say from nothing. That is supposed to be more rational than to say God made them?

You're talking about big bang theory, that's not evolution.