What the ruling on Gay marriage is REALLY about

[Marius27]

I disagree.. but will post this.. http://www.haaretz.com/beta/.premiu...cial&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Facebook

Am I missing something? I can't read whole article, but it says same-sex relationships didn't always have a negative view among Jewish communities. It didn't always have that view among Christian communities either, and most Jews today are Pro-gay. Also, the Tanakh never ever condemns gay women. Was that just an oversight? Did God leave that out?

 

[Marius27]

Sounds pretty anti-gay.

Exactly. "I'm not anti-gay, I just think gays are disgusting perverts".

 

[pat34lee]

Exactly. "I'm not anti-gay, I just think gays are disgusting perverts".

Not gays. Homosexuals. Remember the perversion of language.
If homosexuality is ok, then so is child sex, bestiality and incest.
You cannot pick and choose which laws you agree with and which to drop.

 

[pat34lee]

I disagree.. but will post this..

I wouldn't post it because it doesn't matter who teaches that sin is ok when the scriptures clearly say otherwise.

 

[Armoured]

Not gays. Homosexuals. Remember the perversion of language.
If homosexuality is ok, then so is child sex, bestiality and incest.
You cannot pick and choose which laws you agree with and which to drop.

Informed consent. It's really not that difficult a concept...

 

[BukiRob]

Informed consent. It's really not that difficult a concept...

No where in scripture will you find what you are ascribing to. Scripture is very clear on this matter.

Bottom line though is this sin is no different than any other.... they all lead to the same place.... death

 

[pat34lee]

Informed consent. It's really not that difficult a concept...

Two men consent to rob a third. Is that legal? No, it is conspiracy.

 

[Armoured]

Two men consent to rob a third. Is that legal? No, it is conspiracy.

you know why that is a completely ridiculous thing to say, right? Noone is conspiring to force anyone into a marriage, are they?

 

[Marius27]

you know why that is a completely ridiculous thing to say, right? Noone is conspiring to force anyone into a marriage, are they?

Well apparently all heterosexual marriages will cease to exist now that gays can marry. Goes to show you how ridiculous the notion of "sanctity of marriage" is if others can destroy your personal marriage.

 

[Marius27]

Scripture is very clear on this matter.

Not clear in the slightest, no matter how much some people want to pretend the Bible was written in 21st Century English.

 

[BukiRob]

Not clear in the slightest, no matter how much some people want to pretend the Bible was written in 21st Century English.

Then you aren't reading your bible.

13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. KJV

13 `And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood [is] on them. Youngs litteral translation

13 If a man goes to bed with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they must be put to death; their blood is on them. Complete Jewish Bible

13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. NASB

Nothing there suggests even the remotest amount of ambiguity

 

[Marius27]

Then you aren't reading your bible.

I'm reading my Bible quite clearly. What part of those verses were not written in English do you not get? Abomination doesn't exist in Hebrew, and absolutely no where in the Old Testament are lesbians condemned. What, did God just forget to condemn 50% of homosexuals in the Old Testament? Not to mention, if you condemn others with the law, you will be condemned by God with it, and based on the Torah, all Christians should be executed.

Nothing there suggests even the remotest amount of ambiguity

Except it's only written to the Levite Priesthood of the Ancient Israelites, doesn't apply to women, and is in the direct context of pagan worship. And the word incorrectly translated as "abomination" in the KJV, refers to a ritual prohibition in Hebrew, not to a moral evil.

Deuteronomy 17:1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evil favouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.

The word in that verse for "abomination" is the same word used in the verse you quoted to condemn gays. Are you really going to try to tell me that sacrificing an animal that is blemished is a grave moral evil in the 21st Century?

So does this verse:

Isaiah 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

And an important one:

Jer 32:25 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

That's quite relevant, seeing as the very preceding verse in the Leviticus that you quoted to condemn gays tells the Israelites not to sacrifice their children to the god Molech.

Leviticus 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

Verse 21 in the original Hebrew is an abrupt subject change from the discussion of incest in the previous verses. There were no page or verse numbers in the original scripture. The "anti-gay" verse (verse 22) goes with verse 21, not the discussion of incest in verses 1-19.

 

[Hoshiyya]

I'm reading my Bible quite clearly. What part of those verses were not written in English do you not get? Abomination doesn't exist in Hebrew, and absolutely no where in the Old Testament are lesbians condemned. What, did God just forget to condemn 50% of homosexuals in the Old Testament? Not to mention, if you condemn others with the law, you will be condemned by God with it, and based on the Torah, all Christians should be executed.

Except it's only written to the Levite Priesthood of the Ancient Israelites, doesn't apply to women, and is in the direct context of pagan worship.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

No ambiguity, bra. Says the same thing in Hebrew as it does in English. That's why the Rabbis (today and throughout time) also are opposed to homosexuality.

However, Lesbianism is not mentioned here, that is true, for which reason the Rabbis teach it is not punished with death. It seems they consider it a sign of insanity rather than a crime meriting death.

 

[pat34lee]

you know why that is a completely ridiculous thing to say, right? Noone is conspiring to force anyone into a marriage, are they?

You're the one waving around 'consent' like it is a magic bullet. There are some places where consent makes no difference.

Anyway, I will not discuss this further because you don't want to learn.

 

[Armoured]

You're the one waving around 'consent' like it is a magic bullet. There are some places where consent makes no difference.

Anyway, I will not discuss this further because you don't want to learn.

i was under the impression we were talking about legal marriages in the democratic west? Where you need informed consent to marry someone, thus making bestialists and paedophiles nothing more than red herrings.

 

[Marius27]

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

No ambiguity, bra. Says the same thing in Hebrew as it does in English.

Nope it doesn't. And it also has no bearing on gay women. You also removed the verse from its pagan context.

That's why the Rabbis (today and throughout time) also are opposed to homosexuality.

Uh, most Rabbis are pro-gay. 70% of Jews worldwide support SSM. Only Orthodox object to it, and even their views are slowly changing.

However, Lesbianism is not mentioned here, that is true, for which reason the Rabbis teach it is not punished with death. It seems they consider it a sign of insanity rather than a crime meriting death.

It wasn't mentioned because women were property and irrelevant, thus nobody cared about what they were doing. Which proves to me its nothing more than an absurd cultural double standard and not an unchanging divine law.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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[.Mikha'el.]

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[JCFantasy23]

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