What sustains damned souls?

[Mannabar]

If God's power isn't keeping them alive, then what is? Are there eternal things beyond God? outside of God?

If God's power is keeping them alive, then what purpose could it possibly serve, since they can't do anything except to feel pain?

 

[BobRyan]

If God's power isn't keeping them alive, then what is? Are there eternal things beyond God? outside of God?

If God's power is keeping them alive, then what purpose could it possibly serve, since they can't do anything except to feel pain?

Are you talking about living people walking about on earth who are not born-again saved saints?

Or are you talking about dead people??

Rev 20 says God puts the wicked in the lake of fire after the 1000 year millennium that starts at the appearing of Christ in Rev 19.

of the wicked God says --
Ezek 18:4 "The soul who sins will die."

Matt 10:28 says this -
28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

 

[Mannabar]

That's what I thought, but since annihilationists aren't considered Christians by this site's standards, I thought it would be a good place to learn more about the opposing side's view of immortality and damnation.

(To be clear, yes, I'm referring to life after death, since that seems to be the standard view around here.)

 

[BobRyan]

From what I have seen - you are free to quote whatever Bible text you wish - no matter whose view it affirms. You just have to be careful at times what you say about that text.

 

[Mark Quayle]

If God's power isn't keeping them alive, then what is? Are there eternal things beyond God? outside of God?

If God's power is keeping them alive, then what purpose could it possibly serve, since they can't do anything except to feel pain?

I suppose by "alive" you mean, keeping them (in some sense or other) "existing". The problem is, we don't really know what even 'existence' is. We do have reason to believe that those committed to the Lake of Fire are evermore dying, or in death, or something... But then, our minds are not adept at dealing with other realms outside of this temporal existence we occupy.

It seems to me reasonable to think that what we can only think of as "forever" is more a question of intensity than longevity, since, for all we know, time is inapplicable there.

 

[Unqualified]

Hope. They are not damned until it is too late.

 

[Mannabar]

So...hope is scary because it keeps the dead clinging to the shadows of their former lives? Is that how this works?

Some preternaturalists say the dead who are "in hell" suffer from denial of their death, because they can't let go the desires they had in life. Do those desires include all their hopes?

 

[mmarco]

If God's power isn't keeping them alive, then what is? Are there eternal things beyond God? outside of God?

If God's power is keeping them alive, then what purpose could it possibly serve, since they can't do anything except to feel pain?

The term "eternal" refers to something that has always existed; our soul is not eternal, but it is immortal. God has the power to create also immortal entities.

Why Hell instead of annihilation?

Here is a possible answer.

God has chosen to create man with a free will, therefore He never creates souls in order to condemn them, but in order that they can freely choose. God wants to save all souls, but He respects man’s free will. If God saved us against our free will, He would destroy our essence of human beings. We are free to love Him or to reject Him. The souls who go to Hell are those who scorn God and do not want to be sanctified and live a holy life in heaven. God has always known that some souls will choose evil and will go to Hell, but this is not the purpose He creates them. God creates them because the fear of damnation in Hell may have a role in man’s choice to abandon sin, expecially when he is still much involved in sin. This is the reason why God tells us that Hell exists and that many will go to Hell (see Matthew 7:13, for example); since God never lies, He created also the souls who will go to Hell. If God had not created the souls who will go to Hell, fewer souls would have gone to heaven because the fear of eternal damnation induces some souls to choose to cooperate with God's grace, so that God can save them. In conclusion, also the souls who will go to Hell , against their own intentions, have a positive role in the salvation of the souls, because through them, God can lead more souls to heaven.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The term "eternal" refers to something that has always existed; our soul is not eternal, but it is immortal. God has the power to create also immortal entities.

Why Hell instead of annihilation?

Here is a possible answer.

God has chosen to create man with a free will, therefore He never creates souls in order to condemn them, but in order that they can freely choose. God wants to save all souls, but He respects man’s free will. If God saved us against our free will, He would destroy our essence of human beings. We are free to love Him or to reject Him. The souls who go to Hell are those who scorn God and do not want to be sanctified and live a holy life in heaven. God has always known that some souls will choose evil and will go to Hell, but this is not the purpose He creates them. God creates them because the fear of damnation in Hell may have a role in man’s choice to abandon sin, expecially when he is still much involved in sin. This is the reason why God tells us that Hell exists and that many will go to Hell (see Matthew 7:13, for example); since God never lies, He created also the souls who will go to Hell. If God had not created the souls who will go to Hell, fewer souls would have gone to heaven because the fear of eternal damnation induces some souls to choose to cooperate with God's grace, so that God can save them. In conclusion, also the souls who will go to Hell , against their own intentions, have a positive role in the salvation of the souls, because through them, God can lead more souls to heaven.

Necessarily, it seems, we are bound to think of "Time unending", concerning the torment in Hell, and our joy in Heaven. In truth, we don't really know what it means. There is reason to believe it is a matter of intensity rather than passage of time, since, it seems evident, it is outside the scope of this temporal existence to which we are subject.

One thing is for sure —God's ways are not our ways.

 

[Larniavc]

If God's power isn't keeping them alive, then what is? Are there eternal things beyond God? outside of God?

If God's power is keeping them alive, then what purpose could it possibly serve, since they can't do anything except to feel pain?

I'm not currently feeling any pain. I'm nearly 50 and have been remarkably hale and healthy despite a youth spent drink, smoking and taking drugs. My best guess is that the food and water along with the positive social contact and engaging day to day activities keep me alive.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If God's power isn't keeping them alive, then what is? Are there eternal things beyond God? outside of God?

If God's power is keeping them alive, then what purpose could it possibly serve, since they can't do anything except to feel pain?

The idea that those "in hell" experience a kind of active external torment is, broadly, a fairly Western conception. In the Christian East the views of hell have been different.

When the Eastern Orthodox talk about hell, they aren't talking about a separate "place" from heaven, but rather conceive of both "heaven" and "hell" as being the same "place". It's not about "place" at all really, but rather how a person experiences God's presence. And so what makes heaven heaven is the same thing that makes hell hell: God's love.

Essentially, it is the person's own disposition toward God that makes heaven heaven or hell hell. The 7th century Christian bishop of Nineveh, St. Isaac the Syrian, described the anguish of hell as an anguish of bitter regret, comparing it to our own experience here on earth when we have betrayed and hurt a dear friend--that remorse, that regret, that internal torment we experience knowing what we have done--that is the torment or anguish of hell. So that when God loves, it is a bitter pain.

A rather consistent stream of thought, both East and West, about hell throughout history is that hell is a choice. That often sounds bizarre--after all, who in their right mind would choose hell? But it shouldn't be that far fetched of an idea, after all, we consistently and frequently make choices in this life which are hurtful, harmful, and even destructive toward ourselves. We hold grudges, sometimes for years or even decades, we don't let go of anger and resentment; we hold onto destructive feelings all the time and often resist the things that will help us heal, like therapy. Sure, nobody says, "I think I want to be tortured forever", but how many choose to be angry and miserable day after day? That's hell. It's not God throwing people into a dark pit and then letting devils with pitchforks poke and prod them forever, it's the clinging onto of misery, anger, resentment.

As C.S. Lewis would phrase it, the gates of hell are locked from the inside. It is those "in hell" who shut themselves up, there is no warden keeping them imprisoned.

What has been an open question throughout the history of Christianity is if redemption remains available for those "in hell". There's no real answer to that question, though many different Christians have given diverse opinions over the centuries. Some argue that it is impossible for those in hell to eventually be reconciled to God; and some have gone so far as to argue that it is possible that ultimately all will be reconciled to God. But it's a question that has no dogmatic answer within Christianity (broadly speaking).

-CryptoLutheran