What sins did he die for?

[Texan40]

There is a difference between sin (a state of being that none of us can change) and committing sins (actions we consciously engage in that run contrary to God's stated will). When the first of us fell from grace it was from active sin. We were all forevermore physically tainted by that original sin; the end result of which is death. Jesus is God's Word made flesh. The same Word that hovered above the waters at creation. He lived as a human being. He dealt with the same joys, pains, and urges of flesh that we all deal with. Because he was conceived of the Holy Spirit and not the seed of Adam he was not, however, born tainted by our sin. He specifically and intentionally took our sin (collective state) and sins (collective active disobedience) upon Himself at the cross. He died and because of the sin he took upon Himself descended into hell. He overcame both hell and death and returned to physical life, in which he remains. Through his perfect sacrifice (the Law of God required sacrifice for atonement) His blood was shed for us and serves as atonement for our sinful nature. This is not an ongoing process but a completed transaction. The price has been paid. He is a living savior and is with God the Father and continues to be our High Priest through whom we can receive God's love and mercy.

 

[Saint Polycarp]

Again, I don't understand how anything can be 100% perfect if its creations are not 100% perfect. Do you understand this? It seems to me to be a paradox.

God is perfect. We are his creations. We are not perfect. Anything that creates imperfect things is by definition imperfect. Therefore, God is imperfect. Do you see my point?



Anyway, coincidence of coincidences. Today I had a near-death experience. I was sailing (any sailors here?) and I was close to capsizing, so I hiked out. At this my mainsheet (a rope connecting the sail to the boat) whipped around and I found myself being hanged by my boat. I began blacking out and inhaling water. I'm sure most of us here would have had a religious experience. I personally had an atheist experience. My first emotion was anger. I thought of how much of life I would miss, and how my family would be devastated. Then I suddenly felt content. I was rescued by a motorboat, and was resuscitated. I didn't quite realize it then, but I had a song in my head as I was strapped to my still-moving boat. That song, I now realize, was 'Imagine'. I'm not quite sure what this means- it may be that atheism is deep-seated in me, or it may mean nothing at all. But that would have been my last thought on Earth.

'And the world shall live as one'.

I think the answer lies in why God created the Universe, all that is seen and unseen. Forgive me if I use the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) to answer, as I find it is the best way for me to understand.
God made everything because God is the ultimate intelligence and the ultimate Love. Therefore God wishes to share his love without limit. Love must be given freely and accepted freely. In order to accept and give love, one must have the freedom to accept or reject it. To choose right or wrong etc.
Therefore we have the choice of accepting or rejecting love, of choosing what to do or not and understanding that there are consequences one way or another. What you see as imperfect is actually part of a perfect plan and a perfect creation. It's way more multi-layered and than that, but it's a good basis for further thought and contemplation.

 

[beforHim]

Sorry, I made the comment "I hope he comes back"- and I was hoping and thinking this in a loving way for a loving reason- but then I forgot to post yesterday! Oh the irony.
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Questions like "why did god create us", "Free will plus God's forknowledge: how?", and many other questions might never have a satisfactory answer. There are plenty of answers, and there are plenty of questions that have gotten good answers, correct answers. So the fallacies I see in the line of thought "All these questions came up without good answers, therefore I'm now an atheist":

1) Thinkinging that, because you haven't found the answer, there isn't an answer. Even after years of searching, there could still be resources you've missed.
2) Thinking that, because you haven't found the answer, you have never heard the answer. WHat I mean is what if you HAVE eard the answer but didn't understand it, or more likely just didn't like it.
3) Assuming that, just because you haven't found the answer to these questions, that the whole world view must be false.
4) Just because you haven't found the answer, then it must be false. Remember, sme questions don't have a definitive answer, and sometimes you just need some more light shed on a subject before you'll accept it.

Many Christians do this with atheism and other religions, and it drives atheists nuts. They make claims about evolution and such and they don't even consider exploring the questions. Well, I've found that many atheists do the same with us.

You are exploring- sweet. I'm not saying you're not having an open mind, you totally do (I see this from your posts). What I'm addressing is not you rejecting us outright with an "I am an atheist, period" attitude (much like the "I just believe!" of Christians. What I am pointing to is that you might be falling victim to one of the four points I typed above. So keep searching, and make sure you don't reject anything outright just because questions and objections arise and seem "unstoppable". Hope this helps.

 

[Joveia]

I'm fascinated by the idea that everyone ends up where they wanted. So if I were to die on that boat, would I 'go' were I expected- Twain's Land- the same place I was before I was born? Or am I missing something in this?

Well, here are some verses describing hell in the New and Old Testaments:

2 Thes 1:9: "They will pay the penalty by being destroyed forever, by being separated from the Lord's presence and from his glorious power." (God's word translation)

Daniel 12:2: "Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace." (NL)

Matt 22:13: "Then the king said to his aides, 'Bind his hands and feet and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'"

Matt 11:22: "But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you."

And so on. Other verses refer to 'fire' and a rich man in one of Jesus' parables refers to himself as being in pain (Luke 16:19-31).

I think what is going on is that hell is a place where someone is separated from any happiness or contentment that can come from being with God and being in a relationship with God. So, basically, the only happiness you can have in hell is from yourself, from various hobbies or interests, or even from other people in hell. In this respect, I believe that hell will be a lot like living like we do now on Earth, except it will go on forever.

Of course, a lot of people would a) really like that, and, b) that doesn't sound so bad. But over an infinite length of time I believe our lives on Earth, however much fun we have, will get pointless and boring. The reference to hell as being 'more bearable' for some people, and hell being characterised primarily as involving 'shame and disgrace' in Daniel, indicates that the pain in hell could be a 'low grade' sort of boredom or complete lack of fulfillment or purpose in life with a 'low grade' pleasure of continuing to exist, much like our lives today when we are bored to death.

We seem to disagree, would you read my post 11 and comment?

I'm not sure where we disagree, but I would say that God saves someone first through the cross, and as part of that and after that they desire godly love, or agape love, the highest unconditional love, rather than someone desires this love first, and then God helps them develop it. But as far as I know you agree with this. So the 'crappiness' of the world and the love shown by Christians helps convince someone to accept God into their life but once someone accepts that love then everything salvation related is done and sorted out, and they'll 'manifest' that salvation more and more throughout their life.

 

[bling]

I'm not sure where we disagree, but I would say that God saves someone first through the cross, and as part of that and after that they desire godly love, or agape love, the highest unconditional love, rather than someone desires this love first, and then God helps them develop it. But as far as I know you agree with this. So the 'crappiness' of the world and the love shown by Christians helps convince someone to accept God into their life but once someone accepts that love then everything salvation related is done and sorted out, and they'll 'manifest' that salvation more and more throughout their life.

I think we are all like the prodigal son. I think Godly type Love is a free undeserving and unconditional gift that comes immediately as the result of us accepting God's forgiveness. "...he that is forgiven much Loves much...". Even if we do not realize how much we have been forgiven of and only Love a little, that Love can grow with use.