What should she do?

[jlujan69]

http://msn.match.com/msn/article.as...ngID=516311&BannerID=544657&menuid=6&GT1=7124

Do you agree with the advice given this young lady? What would you advise her to do? Why?

 

[""]

It helps me to past the letter here, that way I can reference it.

Dear Lynn,
My boyfriend and I have been together for more than a year and we have a five-month-old child together. My problem is that he is still married. We live together, and he hasn't been with his wife for three years now. I love him very much and he says he loves me, too. He says that he wants the divorce, but still hasn't gotten it. Am I being a fool by staying in this situation? What would you advise?
—Tired Of Being “The Other Woman

Now, of course we could point our finger back 3+ years and say "hey, what are you doing with a married man in the first place, and why on earth would you move in with him, let alone have his baby?" but in reality, that's a given, and you cannot change the past. It's best to look at today, and toward the future.

The response of the person who works that particular personals column was to say that some people are not good at tasks. They suggest that this woman's boyfriend (father of her child) is probably not particularly good at following through on a task, and so it would behoove the woman to nag him (basically), once a month, asking about when that divorce is going to occur.

Is this good advice? Not from my perspective.

#1 If you have to remind somebody to get a divorce just so he can marry you and be a family for the baby he fathered, he's not into you.

#2 If after 3 years, he is showing no interest in getting a divorce, he's not into you.

#3 He may not be into the woman he was married to, but he's probably using that marriage, and waiting on the divorce, as a "reason" for not marrying you. Again... He's not into you.

If this were me (and it wouldn't be, because I wouldn't put myself in that situation), I would pack my stuff up and move jr. and I out into a separate living arrangement. If I own the home, then I'd ask daddy dearest to pack up and move into another home. This could be a temporary situation of course, and it might change, once he gets that divorce finalized. Then again, it might not. Maybe after he gets the divorce worked out, he'll decide he wants to be free to play around. In either case, I wouldn't have to bet all of my hopes and dreams for a happy marriage on his ability to get that divorce going. I"m aware that a divorce isn't cheap, and many people cannot afford a good attorney. However, 3 years is plenty of time to save a few dollars a month until you get to the point where you can hire one. This woman has put her life on hold, waiting for this man to be responsible. There is no reason for her to continue to wait on him. If he gets is act together, then she can always marry him, and have that family she wants. If he doesn't, she'll be living on her own, and ready to explore other options. In the mean time, she can collect child support, and if it applies, common law support as well. You don't have to be married in some states to collect common law support, especially if there is a child involved and the two adults were living together for more than a year. That's the way it is in California but I cannot speak for the rest of the country.

 

[Jetgirl]

I'd advise her, since she seems pretty set on staying in a utterly stupid situation, to give him three months. You can get a quickie divorce in three months.

If he's not completely divorced in three months: can the loser. Get yourself, and your kid, go somewhere else, do not leave a forwarding address, do not pass go, and for heavens sake refrain from letting him talk you into second and third and fourth and fifth chances.

Find an actual man, with an actual spine, next time. And don't get pregnant again.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

As a man who has been through a marriage which ended in separation and divorce some time later, I think I can bring a different perspective to this.

When I separated from my wife, the marriage was over. It was a done deal...no regrets, no "maybe we can get back together...". It was dead. I viewed myself as single (although, of course, I was still legally married).

The bloke in question may well be in the same position. He views himself as single, and the fact that he's married is (to him) unimportant. It's something that's over and done, despite the fact that he just hasn't done the official thing. He's not using his existing marriage as an excuse for anything...he's in a committed relationship as a partner and father. What's there to excuse?

I think what she needs to do is make it very clear to him that this is important to her. I don't think that it is to him, but I doubt that he realises how important it is to her. If, even after making it plain to him that it's important to her, he continues to not do it, it may be necessary for her to 'do it' for him (by which I mean procure the forms, fill them out, and put them in front of him saying "Sign here."). After all, if it's important to her, then it's not unreasonable for her to make the effort.

 

[Lycaenidae]

He needs to do it. He is an adult, not a child. There is absolutely no reason the woman should have to file for his divorce. Furthermore, it's utterly ridiculous when men can't seem to do simple tasks like pay their bills.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

He needs to do it. He is an adult, not a child. There is absolutely no reason the woman should have to file for his divorce. Furthermore, it's utterly ridiculous when men can't seem to do simple tasks like pay their bills.

If it's not important to him, why should he do it? Alternatively, if it's important to her, why shouldn't she do it?

 

[Lycaenidae]

If it's not important to him, why should he do it? Alternatively, if it's important to her, why shouldn't she do it?

Because it's his marriage, not hers.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Because it's his marriage, not hers.

So what? It's important to HER, not to him. Why should he do it?

 

[Jetgirl]

So what? It's important to HER, not to him. Why should he do it?

Because when you care about people, the things they care about become things you care about.

If you don't care... *shrug* you're getting a bedwarmer, not a relationship.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Because when you care about people, the things they care about become things you care about.

If you don't care... *shrug* you're getting a bedwarmer, not a relationship.

Oh, I certainly agree. I try to do things for my wife because they're important to her, even though they might be trivial to me. But - bottom line - men aren't good at that. We MEAN to do things...but they somehow get put off. Now, it may well be that a man might intend to do it (get a divorce), but it just keeps getting put off. Now, if this is the case (note that I'm assuming that it is the case, and that he's not prevaricating because he doesn't want to get divorced), then shoudln't it be her problem, in the end? She's the one who wants it, not him, and despite his willingness to do what is important to her, in the end, isn't it her responsibility to act for her own happiness?

 

[Jetgirl]

Oh, I certainly agree. I try to do things for my wife because they're important to her, even though they might be trivial to me.

Well that's sure nice of you.

But - bottom line - men aren't good at that. We MEAN to do things...but they somehow get put off.

Or you convince yourself that somehow having a Y chromosome makes you unable to take responsibility.

Nope, not buying it. Throw in a bridge with that and we'll see.

Now, it may well be that a man might intend to do it (get a divorce), but it just keeps getting put off.

It may be well that he's perfectly happy with a bit of sex toy/house cleaner/babysitter and couldn't care less.

Now, if this is the case (note that I'm assuming that it is the case, and that he's not prevaricating because he doesn't want to get divorced), then shoudln't it be her problem, in the end?

Yep, it's too bad that so few women tend to get off their butts and show the equivicators the door.

You'd get it from me... well, actually you wouldn't, since I wouldn't become involved with a married man in the first place, and if they informed me they were married later I'd kick them out for lying and/or misrepresenting themselves. If they "put off" or "didn't get around to doing" something that important to me for that long, they'd only see the tail end of this girl one last time.

She's the one who wants it, not him, and despite his willingness to do what is important to her, in the end, isn't it her responsibility to act for her own happiness?

Sure, it's her repsonsibility to pack and leave the loser, who obviously doesn't care about her happiness, which she probably should have done years ago.

On second thought, they may be made for each other....

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Well that's sure nice of you.

Yes, it is. It's part of being in a relationship.

Or you convince yourself that somehow having a Y chromosome makes you unable to take responsibility.

Except that nobody has claimed that men are unable to take responsibility. Nice strawman, though.

It may be well that he's perfectly happy with a bit of sex toy/house cleaner/babysitter and couldn't care less.

It may well be. It also may well be that he intends to do it and it keeps getting put off.

Yep, it's too bad that so few women tend to get off their butts and show the equivicators the door.

"Equivocators"? What's he equivocating about? He's in a committed (they have a child together, don't forget) presumably monogamous relationship. He's not equivocating about anything. Note taht there's nothing in the article concerned which states that she wants to get married - what's he equivocating about?

You'd get it from me... well, actually you wouldn't, since I wouldn't become involved with a married man in the first place, and if they informed me they were married later I'd kick them out for lying and/or misrepresenting themselves. If they "put off" or "didn't get around to doing" something that important to me for that long, they'd only see the tail end of this girl one last time.

That is, of course, your prerogative, as it is hers. Perhaps she (unlike you) is willing to at least try to see it from his side.

Not to mention the irony of someone saying they "wouldn't become involved with a married man". That always makes me laugh. Do you think some women go around thinking they'd love to become involved with a married man? Of course not. Like you, they "wouldn't become involved with a married man"...until they meet and fall in love with someone who's married. There, but for chance, go you...try to be a little more tolerant and a little less judgemental.

Sure, it's her repsonsibility to pack and leave the loser, who obviously doesn't care about her happiness, which she probably should have done years ago.

On second thought, they may be made for each other....

You're awful condemnatory for someone who knows very little about the situation. He's a 'loser' and she apparently deserves him. More, he "obviously doesn't care about her happiness", which is completely unsupported by anything in the original article. Did she say he beats her? Goes out drinking with the boys every night? Screws around? No. Her only complaint about him is that he can't seem to get organised to get the divorce...which, apparently, is not something he particularly cares about. She does...but the fact that he hasn't gotten one is all his fault. Funny, that.

 

[doaftheloaf]

Oh, I certainly agree. I try to do things for my wife because they're important to her, even though they might be trivial to me. But - bottom line - men aren't good at that. We MEAN to do things...but they somehow get put off. Now, it may well be that a man might intend to do it (get a divorce), but it just keeps getting put off. Now, if this is the case (note that I'm assuming that it is the case, and that he's not prevaricating because he doesn't want to get divorced), then shoudln't it be her problem, in the end? She's the one who wants it, not him, and despite his willingness to do what is important to her, in the end, isn't it her responsibility to act for her own happiness?

Excuses. So what if the man isn't good at dealing with things that are more important to his girlfriend than to him. He's had 3 years to get the divorce, and he hasn't done it. In the meantime, he's had a child with this woman. I really don't think he's all that concerned about getting this divorce.

Yes, she is the one who wants the divorce, but it's not her marriage being dissolved, it's his. So it's therefore his responsibility. If he's not going to do it, kick him to the curb.

If he really does love her he will get the divorce. if he's scared off by the divorce proceedings his gf can come along with him to make sure he goes through with it. Otherwise, he's not good enough for her.

 

[doaftheloaf]

Her only complaint about him is that he can't seem to get organised to get the divorce...which, apparently, is not something he particularly cares about. She does...but the fact that he hasn't gotten one is all his fault. Funny, that.

It's been THREE YEARS. Anyone can get a divorce in three years. He's been with this woman over a year, so it doesn't look like he has any real reason to stay married. What responsibility does she have to get the divorce? It's not her marriage.

If there's anyone else to blame, it would obviously be his wife, but why would she want to stay married to him, and furthermore, if he really made a serious effort to get the divorce, what grounds would she have to stop him?

 

[Jetgirl]

Except that nobody has claimed that men are unable to take responsibility. Nice strawman, though.

Straw man? I think not. I'll repeat your words for you, just in case,

But - bottom line - men aren't good at that. We MEAN to do things...but they somehow get put off.

Excuses, excuses... in the end it's all just not taking responsibility.

That is, of course, your prerogative, as it is hers. Perhaps she (unlike you) is willing to at least try to see it from his side.

Not to mention the irony of someone saying they "wouldn't become involved with a married man". That always makes me laugh. Do you think some women go around thinking they'd love to become involved with a married man? Of course not. Like you, they "wouldn't become involved with a married man"...until they meet and fall in love with someone who's married. There, but for chance, go you...try to be a little more tolerant and a little less judgemental.

I HAVE met and fallen in love with a married man. I kicked his scrawny behind to the curb after dating happily for six months when I got a nasty call from his WIFE (that I didn't know about). He was forcibly single again about 30 seconds after I got the call.

You're awful condemnatory for someone who knows very little about the situation. He's a 'loser' and she apparently deserves him.

Women who stick with losers get what they deserve.

They have feet, they can get walking. There's also no excuse to stay in a relationship where you're unhappy. It's his fault for not doing the right thing by her, it's her fault for staying with a man who's not doing the right thing by her.

I see this again and again in women I know, and it really does pain me. They'll say "If I catch you smoking crack one more time, I'm taking the baby and leaving" (this is a real case BTW), of course, they catch them smoking crack one more time.... but they don't take the baby and leave. Which just green-lights future bad behavior, since the guy now know her threats are empty, and he won't have any real consequences.

I am incredibly frusterated by both parties, hence the bouncing back and forth on who has the biggest problem

She does...but the fact that he hasn't gotten one is all his fault. Funny, that.

Last time I checked your girlfriend can't sign divorce papers for you. World would be pretty chaotic if they could.

 

[Ledifni]

http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=4991&TrackingID=516311&BannerID=544657&menuid=6&GT1=7124

Do you agree with the advice given this young lady? What would you advise her to do? Why?

I can't give her the advice she'd like, since I consider marriage useless at best, sacrilegious at worst. My advice to her would be to use this experience as an object lesson on setting her own terms for her relationships rather than signing a government contract and assuming it will address all of her problems.

 

[Phred]

Something seems to have been overlooked... while this man isn't getting a divorce, neither is his wife. Why? If the marriage were really over wouldn't one of them wish to move on?

This smells funny to me.

 

[jlujan69]

As a man who has been through a marriage which ended in separation and divorce some time later, I think I can bring a different perspective to this.

When I separated from my wife, the marriage was over. It was a done deal...no regrets, no "maybe we can get back together...". It was dead. I viewed myself as single (although, of course, I was still legally married).

The bloke in question may well be in the same position. He views himself as single, and the fact that he's married is (to him) unimportant. It's something that's over and done, despite the fact that he just hasn't done the official thing. He's not using his existing marriage as an excuse for anything...he's in a committed relationship as a partner and father. What's there to excuse?

I think what she needs to do is make it very clear to him that this is important to her. I don't think that it is to him, but I doubt that he realises how important it is to her. If, even after making it plain to him that it's important to her, he continues to not do it, it may be necessary for her to 'do it' for him (by which I mean procure the forms, fill them out, and put them in front of him saying "Sign here."). After all, if it's important to her, then it's not unreasonable for her to make the effort.

I have to admit that I can't imagine myself, after separating and deciding upon divorce, to not take the final step and make it legal and official. Failing to do so, in my opinion, could complicate things for me in the future. That is one task that I wouldn't want to leave undone. I'd want to "dot all the I's and cross all the T's" to ensure a finality to it all.

 

[jlujan69]

My impression of this guy is that if he couldn't care less for his girlfriend's feelings or the well being of their child. I don't buy the argument that he intends to file for divorce but keeps forgetting about it. We're not talking about putting off cleaning out the garage or giving the dog a pedicure (or paw-dicure ). Divorce is something that tends to incessantly occupy one's thoughts until it's finalized (or on its way to being so).

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Excuses. So what if the man isn't good at dealing with things that are more important to his girlfriend than to him. He's had 3 years to get the divorce, and he hasn't done it. In the meantime, he's had a child with this woman. I really don't think he's all that concerned about getting this divorce.

Obviously, he's not. That's the whole point. As someone who's been there, I can understand it.

Yes, she is the one who wants the divorce, but it's not her marriage being dissolved, it's his. So it's therefore his responsibility.

But it's she who's so concerned about it, not him. So therefore it's her responsibility, not his.

If he really does love her he will get the divorce.

I could as easily say that if she really does love him she won't care that he isn't divorced.

It's been THREE YEARS. Anyone can get a divorce in three years. He's been with this woman over a year, so it doesn't look like he has any real reason to stay married. What responsibility does she have to get the divorce? It's not her marriage.

The responsibility is that it's HER who wants him divorced. He obviously doesn't care that much...she does. It's HER problem, not his.