What should I do to have eternal life?

[Charlesinflorida]

MT 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [20] The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? [21] Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

In this passage, I think it interesting that in answer to the mans question, Yeshua says "Keep (obey) the commandments" .

"Which?" He asks.

Today the church would answer "Love God and love neighbor, all the rest are void." But Yeshua begins quoting the 10 of Moshe to him, which is a short way of saying "Torah". Notice that when the man confirms that he has been doing just that, the lord does NOT say,"Sorry bub, but you have been wasting your time" Neither does he say, "Don't be concerned about keeping the law of Moshe, just believe that I am the Messiah"

Yeshua tells him to keep the law AND to follow, (believe in, trust in, have faith in) Him (Yeshua). Now look at those faithul and true believers that are alive when the lord returns, who have been under attack by the dragon (antichrist).

Rev 12: [17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Charles in Florida

 

[Jim B]

MT 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [20] The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? [21] Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

My interpretation of the passage you quoted in Matthew 19 is a bit different. First of all, the “rich young ruler” had a misconception about inheritance. You don’t DO anything to inherit an estate. It’s not based on what you do, it’s based on a relationship – who you are, not what you do. When Jesus instructed him to keep the commandments if he wanted to EARN eternal life or to be perfect, the young man realized that salvation based on works is unattainable and went away sorrowful. The Law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ by showing us our need of Him, not of our own efforts, in attaining salvation. Anyhow, that’s my take on the story.

\o/

 

[LynneClomina]

yes, we are supposed to keep the big 10...

but if we fail on any point, we dont lose our salvation, or that would be salvation based on works, not grace....

if we are saved, we desire automatically to keep them, that is why the law is no longer a "requirement" for salvation...

i am of the opinion that all OT must be filtered through the Cross, as every point has either stayed the same, or been revised, or done away with...

thats my understanding, and what i believe the NT teaches.

Lynne

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Thanks Jim,

You are correct that we do not earn our salvation through the law. Yeshua and this man new this already. It is a basic teaching of Torah, that salvaion comes only by faith andnot through legalism. The man had been keeping the law since his youth but also knew that there was still something lacking. Yeshua also knows that his keeping the law is an outgrowth of his aith in God, because in the law, there is a continuous teaching of repentence followed by Gods restoration and forgiveness. It happens every year in a big way at Yom Kippur, ( Day of Atonement). Yeshua talks to him about being perfected, and laying up treasure in heaven. The thing that was keeping this man from the fulness of Gods gift was his wealth, which seems to have been an obstacle that needed removal, so that Gods grace could flow through him to others. By sharing his wealth with the poor that blessing of God would flow to others in a tangible way.

Also the word "inherit" is not in the text. The word is "Have" which is the Greek "ekho" which mean "to posses with assurance." It is not connected to receiving an inheritance, but in gaining posession by any means.

Charles in Florida

 

[Jim B]

Also the word "inherit" is not in the text. The word is "Have" which is the Greek "ekho" which mean "to posses with assurance." It is not connected to receiving an inheritance, but in gaining posession by any means.

Charles, Thanks for this insight. Since I know Greek like I know brain surgery, it sure helps.

\o/

 

[Charlesinflorida]

yes, we are supposed to keep the big 10...

but if we fail on any point, we dont lose our salvation, or that would be salvation based on works, not grace....

if we are saved, we desire automatically to keep them, that is why the law is no longer a "requirement" for salvation...

i am of the opinion that all OT must be filtered through the Cross, as every point has either stayed the same, or been revised, or done away with...

thats my understanding, and what i believe the NT teaches.

Lynne

May HaShem Bless you greatly Lynne.

As I have said, the Old Testament teaches only salvation through faith, over and over and over again. It is only the church that tries to make the law into a salvation document as if the Jews of the O.T. were saved differently than we are today. Even the Jews who perverted the law into legalism knew that faith was what mattered. They used the law to obtain or maintain status. This was wrong as well.

You say that christians must keep the big 10. What about the big number 4?

Charles in Florida

 

[LynneClomina]

big number 4?



clueless Lynne

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Fouth in the list of the BIG TEN.

[8] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: [10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: [11] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Charles in Florida

 

[Svt4Him]

Law to the proud, grace to the humble. The reason Jesus used the law was the ruler didn't think he needed to be saved by Jesus.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

JN 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. . . . [21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

This he said to his disciples who knew that they needed his grace.

Charles in Florida

 

[LynneClomina]

Fouth in the list of the BIG TEN.

[8] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: [10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: [11] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Charles in Florida

yes, that one has changed somewhat through the cross... Jesus himself "worked" on the sabbath... i think it is more a principle:

have a day for God
have a day for rest
and dont put the day before God himself - dont not help someone on your sabbath because of some legalistic rule... do the loving thing that God would have you do...

JUST DONT MISS CHURCH!!!!!

lynne

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Yeshua never broke the sabbath. If he had, then that would be sin, or sin is the breaking of the law. In which case Yeshua would be a siinner and could not be our sinless sacrifice.

You don't understand. Yeshua did what was allowed on Sabbath. He only broke the Jewish tradition which was added to the law, and not the law itself. The law always allowed one to save a life and to releive suffering on Sabbath. He did not institute a new day. Sabbath was not changed until 318 AD under orders from Constantine the Pagan who ordered the entire empire to observe only the verniable day of the sun in honor of Mithra the sun god of Rome. Until that time the church continued to observe the Sabbath of God.

Charles in Florida

 

[Svt4Him]

Why are you on this bit? It's quite clear that it doesn't matter which day of the week, and what the Sabbath was made for, so I don't really think it should still be an issue.

 

[LynneClomina]

Yeshua never broke the sabbath. If he had, then that would be sin, or sin is the breaking of the law. In which case Yeshua would be a siinner and could not be our sinless sacrifice.

You don't understand. Yeshua did what was allowed on Sabbath. He only broke the Jewish tradition which was added to the law, and not the law itself. The law always allowed one to save a life and to releive suffering on Sabbath. He did not institute a new day. Sabbath was not changed until 318 AD under orders from Constantine the Pagan who ordered the entire empire to observe only the verniable day of the sun in honor of Mithra the sun god of Rome. Until that time the church continued to observe the Sabbath of God.

Charles in Florida

yah, i dont know much about jewish tradition, and it dont matter too much to me at this point... i just know that i dont have to be legalistic about it like some people are (not saying that about anyone here). i help people move on sundays (my sabbath day), and go shopping, and do housework (to the extent that i do any housework!) on sundays. and i dont believe that is wrong. but i wont work at my job regularly on sundays, for pay, because that is my day for God. but i know people who feel they *have* to work on sundays, and i no longer condemn them.

my favorite passage these days...

Romans 14 - 1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. 5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God." 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way. 14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

if to somebody i am a weaker "sister", then so be it... God has accepted me with my convictions... thus if i am convicted in my heart that i can do these things on sunday, and i dont do them because of somebody elses conviction, THAT is sin.

God is so GOOD!!!

blessings, Lynne

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Maybe Sabbath means nothing to the Church. But the Lord seems to have a lot to say about it for some reason. This is an issue to take before Him. Why do the traditions of men hold more weight than the commandments of God? Maybe there was good reason that he appointed Sabbath, rather than Sunday. Maybe he is God and doesn't need any other reason.

Blessings to you both

Charles in Florida

 

[LynneClomina]

i am curoius, charlesIF...

why do you say this is an issue to take before the Lord?
do you think perhaps we have not done so?
yes, we are to... and yes, i have...

it kinda sounds like you think that if a person doesnt agree with how you understand things, that they must not be taking it to God? i dont know if you do think that, but that is what it sounds like you are saying...

my sabbath is on sunday because i choose it to be so, i prefer to "observe" it in the way i am convicted to do so on the day my church has services, which is on sunday... we used to have them on saturday, and it doesnt really matter to us which day.

what church are you saying doesnt care about the sabbath? do you mean the christian church as a whole, or individual ones???

i am interested in understanding your perspective.

be blessed,
Lynne

 

[Svt4Him]

Maybe Sabbath means nothing to the Church. But the Lord seems to have a lot to say about it for some reason. This is an issue to take before Him. Why do the traditions of men hold more weight than the commandments of God? Maybe there was good reason that he appointed Sabbath, rather than Sunday. Maybe he is God and doesn't need any other reason.

Blessings to you both

Charles in Florida

Was the Sabbath made for God?

 

[Svt4Him]

i am curoius, charlesIF...

why do you say this is an issue to take before the Lord?
do you think perhaps we have not done so?
yes, we are to... and yes, i have...

it kinda sounds like you think that if a person doesnt agree with how you understand things, that they must not be taking it to God? i dont know if you do think that, but that is what it sounds like you are saying...

my sabbath is on sunday because i choose it to be so, i prefer to "observe" it in the way i am convicted to do so on the day my church has services, which is on sunday... we used to have them on saturday, and it doesnt really matter to us which day.

what church are you saying doesnt care about the sabbath? do you mean the christian church as a whole, or individual ones???

i am interested in understanding your perspective.

be blessed,
Lynne

This is kind of like when someone says "Pray about it" then you will become as enlightened as they, who have obviously prayed much more than I. But I think sometimes it's said without realizing what is being implied.

 

[LynneClomina]

there is a saying i like...

God didnt make man for the sabbath,
He made the sabbath for man.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Sorry that you taking tha wrong. All I am saying is that the decision to change from Sabbath to the veriable day of the Sun was made for you a long time ago, and now it is a long tradition which has been rejectified through all sorts of word play, but you can not make any case for it by scripture. So you should do your own investigation and see why God made the Sabbath for man, and why he chose that particular day.

I am not saying that I am more spiritual than you or that I am right and you are wrong. I say we should be able to substantiate everything we do and believe from Gods word and not from traditions that in many cases were made for the wrong reasons. In the coming Kingdom, what we think or our tradition will not matter a bit. For the scriptures say that time will be marked from one Sabbath to another. And it will be the feast of Tabernacles that all the nations of the earth will observe, not Christmas or Easter ect. Do you see what I am saying. We have a chance to do it right. We don't have to continue the mistakes of our church fathers.

Charles in Florida