What should a man do when its never enough?

[Autumnleaf]

Well, some people don't make decisions lightly. For me, it's a process that takes a lot of thought and consideration. Decision making IS a process.

That is fine. For me unforgiveness is never an option. I don't think the Bible says its an option either. I've been told that resenting someone is like drinking poison and hoping someone else dies. Hence, it seems foolish to put off forgiving someone.

I'm sure other people get something out of it though. Maybe attention or relishing the thought of getting even or self righteous indignation, poor me. I don't know. We're all different.

If I think about it, people have done some harsh things to me so its not like I couldn't find reasons if I tried. Perhaps those reasons would be so huge that it would consume me in grief, rage and even guilt. Boy I'd be a hot mess then.

 

[HannahT]

Its a decision. Its not a process. Calling it a process is excuse making to avoid making the decision.

I forgive people all the time for all kinds of things. Most of the time they don't know I do it. I do it for me because I can't afford to hold onto resentments.

I find at times people confuse trust and forgiveness. They combine the two, and yet they are two completely different things.

They may make the decision to forgive the person, but the trust can still be broken.

Depending on how bad that trust bond was broken? It may take a long time, or it may never be mended. I find that people use the issue of trust as a shaming tool to inform others on how they haven't forgiven.

It always blew my mind on how people seem to feel that shaming in that way would ever heal the bond of trust, and yet you see people trying to manipulate that issue so they can force the issue.

I have often asked those people if they had a child molester harm their child - and they done their time and you had done your forgiving ...you would allow them to babysit again. If they are sane they would say no, but that doesn't mean they didn't forgive them. The reformed molester wouldn't wish to push themselves into that circumstance EVEN if the parents were not sane - for the child' sake.

Trust has always been different. Yet, people love to combine it with forgiveness so they can attempt to guilt people into what they had prior - and can have again. They tend not to be ones that truly wish to work on it, or get inpatient waiting, or realize their restored trust isn't something they need to rely on in order to live the life God has in mind for them now.

I think of David and Saul. David loved Saul, and it sounds like he forgave him many times. Yet, he didn't get to close in times he knew trust would be naive. I wouldn't question his forgiveness over that though.

 

[DZoolander]

Which kind of gets to what I was saying before...which is that you need to be honest with yourself about what you're capable of.

For example - say hypothetically I discovered that my wife was carrying on an affair. I would divorce her (as I would expect her to do of me if I were having an affair).

That doesn't mean that I'm spending my time stewing about it. It simply means I don't want that person in my sight any more in a marital context. I know myself well enough to know that if she remained my wife - resentment would grow and I would "be drinking that poison" you're talking about. Terminating the marriage would actually be my way of having peace about it.

So - if "forgiveness" to you means that I would should find a way to be cool with the fact she was mounting some other dude and move past it like nothing happened/have her remain my wife...then I question anybody's ability to do that. I know I certainly couldn't. If "forgiveness", however, means that you can move past it and go on unencumbered by feelings of resentment/etc...yes...I think it can be had.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I know a psychologist who talks about men he sees who quit drinking, quit having affairs etc... He says its common that the wives don't accept their husbands back after they change. He says no matter what they do, "Its never enough." Then the men get discouraged when they realize that no matter what they do it seems they can't maker her happy so why try. Then the reformed man moves on leaving the damaged woman behind. What do you make of this?

If your friend is a psychologist from anything from Cracker Jack University, he should be able to answer this question himself. I took psychology 101 and 102 and this was covered in depth in both of them... And if they cover it in the "fill out your credits" classes of college, I'm guessing they'd have gone over it for those who're earning a degree in the field...

 

[mkgal1]

Was that one of Jesus' parables? Is Jesus and God sitting at a picnic table in Heaven going over how hurt they are at what you did last week? Are they going over everything you've done wrong in the morning and how they will tell you about it the next time they see you? I've looked, but nursing resentments doesn't seem to be in my copy of the Bible.

But humility and having a contrite spirit clearly *is* in the Bible (and that's really what's necessary for healing and restoration):

All these things my hand has made,
and so all these things came to be,
declares the Lord.
But this is the one to whom I will look:
he who is humble and contrite in spirit
and trembles at my word.~Isaiah 66 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+66&version=ESV

Is the broken vase part of being born again as a new creation?

That's spiritual renewal....but that doesn't mean that there's instant emotional renewal as well (we need to participate in our own sanctification). The two are not the same thing. Also.....certain details aren't just forgotten as if they never occurred---King David couldn't build the temple for God since he had blood on his hands from war (for one example).

 

[mkgal1]

That is fine. For me unforgiveness is never an option. I don't think the Bible says its an option either. I've been told that resenting someone is like drinking poison and hoping someone else dies. Hence, it seems foolish to put off forgiving someone.

I'm sure other people get something out of it though. Maybe attention or relishing the thought of getting even or self righteous indignation, poor me. I don't know. We're all different.

If I think about it, people have done some harsh things to me so its not like I couldn't find reasons if I tried. Perhaps those reasons would be so huge that it would consume me in grief, rage and even guilt. Boy I'd be a hot mess then.

You seem to be conflating "forgiveness" with "restoration" and "trust".

Oops, I hadn't read Hannah's post before I posted. I totally agree with what she posted, especially this:

Depending on how bad that trust bond was broken? It may take a long time, or it may never be mended. I find that people use the issue of trust as a shaming tool to inform others on how they haven't forgiven.

When there are trust issues.....this sort of behavior (using the issue of trust as a shaming tool ) is going to cause a person to doubt that person is trustworthy (and that's usually why the cycle continues). It's not resentment---it's that there's no evidence of the person realizing what they've done (which means it will probably be repeated).

IOW....they're providing reason for that doubt.

 

[seeingeyes]

I would say that in most cases (if not all), the drinking/cheating/etc. is not the full problem. It's a just the most obvious symptom. It's possible to be a faithful, teetotaling, drug-free jackass, after all.

 

[mkgal1]

Right.....isn't that a "dry drunk" (in respects to a recovering alcoholic)? Isn't the main element of that the prideful attitude?

I looked it up:

The phrase "dry drunk" has two significant words for the alcoholic. "Dry" refers to the abstinence from drinking, whereas "drunk" signifies a deeply pathological condition resulting from the use of alcohol in the past. Taken together these words suggest intoxication without alcohol. Since intoxication comes from the Greek word for poison, "dry drunk" implies a state of mind and a mode of behavior that are poisonous to the alcoholic's well being.

OBVIOUS TRAITS Persons experiencing a full-blown DRY DRUNK are, for that period, removed from the world of sobriety; they fail, for whatever reason, to accept the necessary conditions for sober living. Their mental and emotional homes are chaotic, their approach to everyday living is unrealistic, and their behavior, both verbal and physical, is unacceptable.

This lack of sober realism manifests itself in many ways.

1. Grandiosity, put very simply, is an exaggeration of one's own importance. This can be demonstrated either in terms of one's strengths or weaknesses. In either case it is blatantly self- seeking or self-serving, putting oneself at the center of attention, from the "big me" who has ask the answers to the "poor me" whose cup of self-pity runneth over and wants all of our attention.

2. Judgmentalism is mutually related to grandiosity. It means that the alcoholic is prone to make value judgments - strikingly inappropriate evaluations - usually in terms of "goodness" or "badness".

3. Intolerance leaves no room for delaying the gratification of personal desires. This is accomplished by gross confusion of priorities with the result that a mere whim or passing fancy is mistakenly given more importance than genuine personal needs.

4. Impulsivity is the result of intolerance or the lack of ability to delay gratification of personal desires. Impulsivity describes behavior which is heedless of the ultimate consequence for self or others. More here:http://www.aacanada.com/drydrunk.html