Why let something with this much evil influence roam the earth and cause havoc for 5-6000 yrs so far to be killed at the end of the tribulation when Satan could have just been wiped out when he was kicked out of heaven.
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What purpose does the devil serve? Why didnt God just kill him back then?
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Satan must serve some purpose in helping willing individuals fulfill their earthly objective.
Would Eve have still sinned if satan had not been around?
Did satan cause Eve to sin or did Eve already have on her heart a lust for the fruit?
Would it have just taken Eve longer to around to sinning if satan had not been around?
Is the problem with Adam and Eve in the Garden prior to sinning the fact they cannot/will not fulfill their earthly objective in such a place and not the fact they might sin?
Is Adam and Eve’s objective to: not ever disobey God of their power or is it some greater objective?
If Adam and Eves (and all of mankind) objective is better achieved outside the Garden and after the garden experience than is it not best to get them going sooner than later?
There are things satan can do which God cannot do so would some of these things help some individuals fulfill their earthly objective?
Would Eve have still sinned if satan had not been around?
Did satan cause Eve to sin or did Eve already have on her heart a lust for the fruit?
Would it have just taken Eve longer to around to sinning if satan had not been around?
Is the problem with Adam and Eve in the Garden prior to sinning the fact they cannot/will not fulfill their earthly objective in such a place and not the fact they might sin?
Is Adam and Eve’s objective to: not ever disobey God of their power or is it some greater objective?
If Adam and Eves (and all of mankind) objective is better achieved outside the Garden and after the garden experience than is it not best to get them going sooner than later?
There are things satan can do which God cannot do so would some of these things help some individuals fulfill their earthly objective?
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football5680
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The Angels have free will just like humans have free will. Satan cannot force somebody to do something against their will and he will be judged like everybody else will be judged.
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Optimax
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For God to just "kill" the devil back then would have been unjust for several reasons.
The devil will be dealt with in the appropriate way, at the appropriate time.
God is smarter than we are.
He knows what we do not.
He always does things right.
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The devil is here for the purpose that we learn of good and evil. Without the devil we would only have God and all would be only good. When man first sinned God said we became like him in part:
Gen 3:22 And the Lord God said, The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
So Satan does serve a purpose. In your OP you might as well ask why does Jesus delay his second coming for then is when Satan's evil influence will be removed. The answer to this is that there is no procreation in heaven. The end will not come until the full number of elect have come about. This is why scripture says God is patiently allowing the evil to continue.
2 Pet 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
Revelation 6:11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
Gen 3:22 And the Lord God said, The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
So Satan does serve a purpose. In your OP you might as well ask why does Jesus delay his second coming for then is when Satan's evil influence will be removed. The answer to this is that there is no procreation in heaven. The end will not come until the full number of elect have come about. This is why scripture says God is patiently allowing the evil to continue.
2 Pet 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
Revelation 6:11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
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Satan must first confess the hatred of an unbeliever, that his condemnation may be final.
By fear of a God who can do this, many will be saved.
By fear of a God who can do this, many will be saved.
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Optimax
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The devil has authority in the earth.
Even though gained by deception, he has it.
Therefore God will deal with the situation justly and wisely.
Have ya read the back of the book?
God wins, and so do we (the saved/born again Rom 10:9)
Even though gained by deception, he has it.
Therefore God will deal with the situation justly and wisely.
Have ya read the back of the book?
God wins, and so do we (the saved/born again Rom 10:9)
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sunlover1
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…Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. Ezekiel 28:12-19
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Rick Otto
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Pride goeth before a fall.
Prov:16:18 paraphrased.
Consider Isa45:7 and Rom9:23
Isa45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Rom9:21: Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
[22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
[23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Prov:16:18 paraphrased.
Consider Isa45:7 and Rom9:23
Isa45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Rom9:21: Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
[22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
[23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
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His existence allows God to show His glory, which is the highest good of all. God could not demonstrate both His wrath and His mercy in a world without evil (see Romans 9). Even evil ultimately serves God's purposes.
God was not taken by surprise by what happened in the Garden of Eden, BTW.
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Before the beginning there dwelt God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and a host of angels. As three is a number of perfect union, so the angels existed in three groups...
1. Michael - Archangel over strong angels
2. Gabriel - Archangel over wise angels
3. Lucifer -Archangel over worshiping angels
Before the beginning things existed in eternity. There was no sense of time. I would imagine if you asked an angel about the timespan of things, and pertaining to the rebellion he would give you a strange look, as time was not a concept before earth.
If we could put a time on Lucifer's fall it would be about 15 billion years in earth's terms. Which is long for us... Short for the eternal beings.
Isaiah 14:12-13
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: - Revelation 12:4
I would imagine that ego swelled in Lucifer's heart as he would lead the worship, in so much that he thought to exalt himself above God the Father himself. There was also bound to have been political games with the other angels as he is called the 'accuser of the brethren.'
Revelation 12:7-10
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
After having enough of that Michael and his strong angels cast Lucifer and his third out of heaven. As in the beginning the earth was without form and void, they were cast out into the nothingness of our universe. I believe that the universe is about 15 billions years old and is the result and in response to Lucifer's rebellion.
If... E = mc2 ... Then m (matter) = E/c2 (energy)
Therefore, for the big boom to have occurred the matter had to have been there before the light and energy (E/c2), as the scripture says...
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. - Genesis 1:2
I would imagine, with these words... 'Let there be light (Genesis 1:3)', that the earth (the mass) turned into energy and light (E/c2) and expanded out from a point of origin, turning into what solar systems the Father willed it to. So the plasma (E/c2) is actually mass that has changed state.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:4,5
I believe that 15 billion years took place between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:4. God divided the light and the darkness by putting the earth in orbit around the sun thus creating the first day of the Earth's creation. But... The universe was created 15 billion years (give or take a few billion years) before that.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. - Revelation 12:17
We are in battle with the devil over the turf he forsook so many eons ago. If God wanted to he could have just created another third to replace lucifer. But how much richer we will be as we inherit an eternal life after living under such trials as the planet earth put us under.
1. Michael - Archangel over strong angels
2. Gabriel - Archangel over wise angels
3. Lucifer -Archangel over worshiping angels
Before the beginning things existed in eternity. There was no sense of time. I would imagine if you asked an angel about the timespan of things, and pertaining to the rebellion he would give you a strange look, as time was not a concept before earth.
If we could put a time on Lucifer's fall it would be about 15 billion years in earth's terms. Which is long for us... Short for the eternal beings.
Isaiah 14:12-13
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: - Revelation 12:4
I would imagine that ego swelled in Lucifer's heart as he would lead the worship, in so much that he thought to exalt himself above God the Father himself. There was also bound to have been political games with the other angels as he is called the 'accuser of the brethren.'
Revelation 12:7-10
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
After having enough of that Michael and his strong angels cast Lucifer and his third out of heaven. As in the beginning the earth was without form and void, they were cast out into the nothingness of our universe. I believe that the universe is about 15 billions years old and is the result and in response to Lucifer's rebellion.
If... E = mc2 ... Then m (matter) = E/c2 (energy)
Therefore, for the big boom to have occurred the matter had to have been there before the light and energy (E/c2), as the scripture says...
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. - Genesis 1:2
I would imagine, with these words... 'Let there be light (Genesis 1:3)', that the earth (the mass) turned into energy and light (E/c2) and expanded out from a point of origin, turning into what solar systems the Father willed it to. So the plasma (E/c2) is actually mass that has changed state.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:4,5
I believe that 15 billion years took place between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:4. God divided the light and the darkness by putting the earth in orbit around the sun thus creating the first day of the Earth's creation. But... The universe was created 15 billion years (give or take a few billion years) before that.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. - Revelation 12:17
We are in battle with the devil over the turf he forsook so many eons ago. If God wanted to he could have just created another third to replace lucifer. But how much richer we will be as we inherit an eternal life after living under such trials as the planet earth put us under.
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Satan lost the war in heaven and will burned alive in the lake of fire - fire and brimstone - real torment and the real 2nd death of Rev 20.
So then why didn't God simply delete Satan? Why not execute him when he loses the war in heaven? Why let him go on to come to this world and tempt Adam and Eve thus risking all of mankind? Tempting them after the literal 7 day creation week that took place about 6000 years ago.
There can be only one "good" answer and it has to do with a free will universe -- the many billions that are looking on at what God does - that observe that war - that see Satan cast out. And know that Satan was one of the covering cherubs - next to the throne of God -- and that he at the top levels was proclaiming to all that God's government was defective -- then when he gets snuffed out -- it looks like his accusation is affirmed by the action God then takes.
So the evil that it is - it must be given opportunity to run-its-course so all can see. Including Satan's role in having Christ killed.
in Christ,
Bob
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Another take...
...without the Devil, Jesus would have no way of pointing out something was wrong, without condemning us. (selah)
...without the Devil, Jesus would have no way of pointing out something was wrong, without condemning us. (selah)
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Satan exists because he serves God's plan (although whether he knows that or not is a different matter).
- In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God (John 1:1)
- All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made (John 1:3)
- I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things (Isaiah 45:7)
- No one has authority unless it is given them (John 19:11)
- The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. (Proverbs 16:4)
- And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh (Exo 9:12)
- I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go (Exo 4:21)
- Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden (Romans 9:18)
- He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn (John 12:40)
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Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? - Ezekiel 33:11
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16
*God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked
*It is not God's will for any to perish
*Satan made a choice to rebel against God
Yea... God had a plan for Satan, and that was to bear light. As Satan forsook God's plan so he is not living according to God's will... He is in rebellion. And so is everyone that rejects Jesus Christ and the gospel.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16
*God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked
*It is not God's will for any to perish
*Satan made a choice to rebel against God
Yea... God had a plan for Satan, and that was to bear light. As Satan forsook God's plan so he is not living according to God's will... He is in rebellion. And so is everyone that rejects Jesus Christ and the gospel.
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Optimax
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Forgot to mention.
The devil is a spirit.
A spirit cannot be killed as in cease to exist.
That is why God made hell and the lake of fire.
Both are prisons for spiritual outlaws.
Angel as well as people and others.
The devil is a spirit.
A spirit cannot be killed as in cease to exist.
That is why God made hell and the lake of fire.
Both are prisons for spiritual outlaws.
Angel as well as people and others.
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