What Prevents The LDS From Being Saved

Enkil · Jan 22, 2013

Ran77 said:
Awesome. I love the Twilight Zone.

Ever see the episode with the Mormons living on the surface of the moon and sun?

I didn't.

"Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet.

"As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do -- that they live generally to near the age of 1000 years.

"He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.

"In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes." (The Young Woman's Journal, published by the Young Ladies' Mutual Improvement Associations of Zion, 1892, vol. 3, pp. 263-64)

"Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon?...when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain." (Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 271)

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Keachian · Jan 22, 2013

Ran77 said:
I don't mean any disrespect, but I believe that your analogy is flawed. Might I recommend a different one. If you asked my children and my co-workers to describe me you would likely get very different responses. That is because each has observed me from a different set of circumstances. However, no matter the differences in their descriptions I am still the same person.

The description of God by the LDS differs from many of the other Christian churches, but it is still the God of the Bible that we worship. As you said, our perception of God is different. Are there any verses in the Bible that indicate that that will result in a loss of salvation?

I stand by my analogy and believe that it is your analogy that doesn't adequately describe the chasm of difference there is between Heavenly Father and Yahweh, as to how this is salvific;
If a prophet stands up in your midst or a dreamer of dreams and he gives to you a sign or wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes about that he spoke to you, saying, Let us go after other gods (those whom you have not known), and let us serve them, you must not listen to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer, for Yahweh your God is testing you to know whether you love Yahweh your God with all of your heart and with all of your inner self. --Deuteronomy 13:1-3

Heavenly Father is not Yahweh.
Yahweh is the Alpha and Omega, There were gods before Heavenly Father, there will be ones afterwards.
Yahweh created all things for his own glory, Heavenly Father is created and is only able to order things, it is not within his power to say 'be' and it is.
Yahweh took on the punishment of the elect to bring his people to glory, Heavenly Father does not bring his people to glory, his people must earn it for themselves.
Yahweh made the atonement through the events of the Cross, Heavenly Father through the sweating of his son in Gethsemane.

Ran77 · Jan 22, 2013

progmonk said:
I stand by my analogy and believe that it is your analogy that doesn't adequately describe the chasm of difference there is between Heavenly Father and Yahweh, as to how this is salvific;

Cool.

Keachian · Jan 22, 2013

Further Heavenly Father is limited in presence, he resides on the planet Kolob(Abraham 3:2-3), Heaven and Earth cannot contain the glory of Yahweh he is above all, through all and in all. (Eph 4:6, Psa 139:7-10, Jer 23:24)
The Incarnation of Jesus in Mormonism happened through the physical union of Heavenly Father and his daughter Mary, The Incarnation of Jesus in Christianity happened by the overshadowing of Mary by the Holy Spirit.
After his ascension Jesus went to the Americas in Mormonism, in Christianity he sat down at the right hand of the Father.

Ran77 · Jan 22, 2013

progmonk said:
Further Heavenly Father is limited in presence, he resides on the planet Kolob(Abraham 3:2-3), Heaven and Earth cannot contain the glory of Yahweh he is above all, through all and in all. (Eph 4:6, Psa 139:7-10, Jer 23:24)
The Incarnation of Jesus in Mormonism happened through the physical union of Heavenly Father and his daughter Mary, The Incarnation of Jesus in Christianity happened by the overshadowing of Mary by the Holy Spirit.
After his ascension Jesus went to the Americas in Mormonism, in Christianity he sat down at the right hand of the Father.

Does this have anything to do with the topic?

It seems as if you have taken this as an opportunity to list off your grievances against the LDS church. The OP asked for those things that will prevent the LDS from being saved and the verses from which they were taken. This post is far afield from that.

Please return to the topic.

Keachian · Jan 22, 2013

Ran77 said:
Does this have anything to do with the topic?

Talking about how Yahweh is different from Heavenly Father has been how I have been addressing the topic, if your god is not the same as Yahweh you have a false god and your rituals are in vain, and your faith is in vain.

Ran77 · Jan 22, 2013

progmonk said:
Talking about how Yahweh is different from Heavenly Father has been how I have been addressing the topic, if your god is not the same as Yahweh you have a false god and your rituals are in vain, and your faith is in vain.

We worship the God that is described in the Bible.

Do you have any verses that explain how our understanding of that God being different from yours results in a loss of salvation? You have provided a nice amount of opinion on the matter. I got it - you feel that having a different understanding of God's nature translates into worshipping a different God. Now that has been abundantly posted we can move on to the scriptures which support that theory, please.

Ran77 · Jan 22, 2013

progmonk said:
Talking about how Yahweh is different from Heavenly Father has been how I have been addressing the topic, if your god is not the same as Yahweh you have a false god and your rituals are in vain, and your faith is in vain.

I didn't catch it the first time, but what rituals are necessary for salvation?

motherprayer · Jan 22, 2013

Ran77 said:
I didn't catch it the first time, but what rituals are necessary for salvation?

One must spin around three times, and then click their heels together. Don't you know Christianity at all? Sheesh!

Ran77 · Jan 22, 2013

motherprayer said:
One must spin around three times, and then click their heels together. Don't you know Christianity at all? Sheesh!

Ah. I knew I was missing something. Thanks for the heads-up.

motherprayer · Jan 22, 2013

Ran77 said:
Ah. I knew I was missing something. Thanks for the heads-up.

Yes. Just do that and you'll be fine. Unless you follow some sects, which require you to wear skirts and big white hats to church on Sundays, and forbid playing drums.

SilenceInMotion · Jan 22, 2013

Enkil said:
Since you have a Catholic Icon, I'll point out that even the Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptism or their religion as being just another denomination, though those who are baptized into a Protestant faith are, even though the Catholics think they aren't up to snuff on every doctrine.

That's nice. You believe in a justification of salvation that isn't true.

Why even continue to pass the buck? These sects form because your church founders started the trend.

Keachian · Jan 22, 2013

Ran77 said:
We worship the God that is described in the Bible.

Say that all you want but it is clear that you do not.

Do you have any verses that explain how our understanding of that God being different from yours results in a loss of salvation?

You were never saved if you have always held that the Mormon god is the God of the Bible, this is why in Col 1:16 Paul states that Jesus is the creator of all things, he is arguing against the Gnostic belief that Jesus was not creator, he is arguing against the belief that Jesus is not the one in whom the fullness of deity was pleased to dwell, if it were not an issue for their salvation Paul would not have included it, if having an unbiblical view of god here is salvific then why do you think that your prophet completely redefining Christianity for his own lusts and greed means that you are safe from the fire?

You have provided a nice amount of opinion on the matter. I got it - you feel that having a different understanding of God's nature translates into worshipping a different God. Now that has been abundantly posted we can move on to the scriptures which support that theory, please.

I've already posted at least one you didn't address it, probably because it calls your prophet a false prophet as well.

Enkil · Jan 22, 2013

motherprayer said:
One must spin around three times, and then click their heels together. Don't you know Christianity at all? Sheesh!

What's funny about this is that Mormonism literally believes that one must receive a secret name, and learn the handshakes and passwords to give to the angel in order to enter the celestial heaven. These are rituals inspired from the Free Masons. Furthermore, one must be eternally married within the temple, and the husband must know the wife's secret name in order to call her into the Celestial Kingdom. These are all vain works and rituals that deny the plain words of the scripture, "whosoever believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever livith and believeth in me shall never die."

Keachian · Jan 22, 2013

Ran77 said:
I didn't catch it the first time, but what rituals are necessary for salvation?

For you, it is the Baptism performed by the Aaronic priesthood, the Laying on of Hands by the Melchizedek priesthood, Sealings, Mission, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Ran77 · Jan 22, 2013

motherprayer said:
Yes. Just do that and you'll be fine. Unless you follow some sects, which require you to wear skirts and big white hats to church on Sundays, and forbid playing drums.

Oh, sure. Now it gets complicated.

Phantasman · Jan 22, 2013

progmonk said:
Talking about how Yahweh is different from Heavenly Father has been how I have been addressing the topic, if your god is not the same as Yahweh you have a false god and your rituals are in vain, and your faith is in vain.

Once again we run into a divide of what the mind conceives (even if written from those things we choose to follow) from what is accepted in the heart. The Jews actually would never outwardly say the name of God. God reavels to Moses his name as "I am that I am". A translation to say YHVH or YHWH has people now calling him as though he is identified on a first name basis, which is dangerous, because he is thought to be someone to be bowed down to in reverence. Yahweh, Jehovah as if he's a friend, instead of the Holy power that deserves so much more. I refer as simply My God.

In non canonical Secret John, Jesus says he has no name since names are given to those that are created, which he wasn't. God is simply God, no other God exists, IMO. I like that belief and fly with it.

Ran77 · Jan 22, 2013

progmonk said:
For you, it is the Baptism performed by the Aaronic priesthood, the Laying on of Hands by the Melchizedek priesthood, Sealings, Mission, blah, blah, blah, blah.

That isn't the topic. You mentioned rituals. If rituals are not necessary for salvation then they need not be discussed here.

Enkil · Jan 22, 2013

SilenceInMotion said:
That's nice. You believe in a justification of salvation that isn't true.

Why even continue to pass the buck? These sects form because your church founders started the trend.

An interesting response. So after nodding and winking at Mormonism, which your church does not do, you straight out bash Protestantism. Interesting set of priorities.

But as for who is to blame for the LDS, I blame Joseph Smith and biblical ignorance.

Keachian · Jan 22, 2013

Ran77 said:
That isn't the topic. You mentioned rituals. If rituals are not necessary for salvation then they need not be discussed here.

If you believe something is necessary for salvation and it is not then you are trying to be justified by your own, not by Christ, after all Paul saying to the Galatians makes this abundantly clear, Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

What Prevents The LDS From Being Saved

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