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What people believe does not change the truth...

BlackSabb

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You guys make me laugh...




And that's your only reply? Why don't you detail for all of us how keeping the sabbath is any different to the commandment to stone homosexuals?

One word "grace" answers mean nothing. You put up extensive posts with links when it comes to your favourite thing in the world-the sabbath. But you can't string 2 words together when it comes to saying why we shouldn't be still stoning homosexuals.

The law is the law, as you say. Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, as you say. The earth and heaven will pass away but the law remain, as you say. Those who follow God are those who keep the law and the commandments, as you say.
 
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k4c

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Kira Light, BlackSabb


Until the Law sin was in the world. Amen.

But sin is not imputed when there is no Law. Why is ths? Because the power of sin is the Law.

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the power of sin is the law:

The Law points out sin and makes sin sinful. But sin was still sin even before the Law it's just that Law now holds us guilty and accoutable and shuts every mouth.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Now here is where most people lose sight of what God is doing. Just because the grace of God, through Jesus Christ, does not give us what we deserve by taking away the power of comdemnation and guilt that comes from the Law does not mean we can continue breaking the Law.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

What shall we say, should we sin because we are under grace? What shall we say then, shall we break God's Law because He's not condeming us? Certainly not!

The grace of God covers us when we're in Christ, which brings no condemnation from the Law.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

The grace of God covers us and the Spirit will convict us of sin so we can make the changes that are needed. But this does not mean we can continue in a life style of sin.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

What shall we say then? Shall we continue to break God's Law so that grace may abound? Certainly not!

Even though sin was not imputed before Sinai death still reigned.

Romans 5:13-14 For until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

The Ten Commandments really define and manifest godly love at its basic level. If we keep the Ten Commandements it will manifest as godly love in our lives. If we manifest godly love in our lives we will keep the Ten Commandments.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery,'' "You shall not murder,'' "You shall not steal,'' "You shall not bear false witness,'' "You shall not covet,'' and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'' Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The whole Law can be summed up like this, love God and love neighbor.

James 2:8-11 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself,'' you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, "Do not commit adultery,'' also said, "Do not murder.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

It's all so very simple. God is making it easy for us by not condemning us if we're growing in Christ but that does not mean we can go out and break the Law.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

I think I've said way too much on this already. You guys really need to study on your own and understand all the verses, even the ones that conflict with the belief system you have now.
 
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VictorC

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Jesus' didn't come to die on a cross to take away the Ten Commandment, but rather, He died to to take the penalty for breaking them while under the old covenant and He came to establish with His words the terms of a new covneant.
It only takes a cursory view of Hebrews 10:9 where it states "He takes away the first that He may establish the second", and then compare Scripture against what you posted to conclude your contention in complete error.
You haven't found a "fourth commandment", which has been a request made to you by more than one member. The narrative Luke wrote shows he apparently had to explain "according to the commandment" to a Gentile recipient of his Gospel account regarding Mary's rest on the sabbath. Once Jesus resurrected and opened the understanding of His disciples, "according to the commandment" of feigned compliance to the first covenant is never found again in Scripture. Assembling on the sabbath days is not compliance to the first covenant law to keep the sabbath holy, which in the law mandates the burnt offerings under a priesthood that has no part in the new covenant.

The Gospel describes our adoption as God's purchased possession (Galatians 4:4-7), in which we have the same sovereignty over the created law the King enjoys, that has no jurisdiction over the King's children (Matthew 17:24-26): "Jesus said to him, Then the sons are free". We are not bound to the old covenant anymore, which does not convey a promise of eternal life to those remaining in it (Galatians 4:30).

BlackSabb made an observation that others have made in the past:
I pointed out that Mary complied with both of the sabbaths the historical account reveals in the week Jesus was crucified. You do not. The hypocrisy of your conversation is consistent with your contradiction with Scripture. Others are able to see the inconsistency in your own witness, and want no part of it. In summary, you don't know the law, it shows, and your posts are a joke.
 
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VictorC

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I think I've said way too much on this already. You guys really need to study on your own and understand all the verses, even the ones that conflict with the belief system you have now.
I disagree - you haven't said anything in response to several posts that show your inconsistencies. Your testimony shows that you have departed from the repentance from dead works that isn't to be renewed (Hebrews 6:1-6), you don't keep any of the sabbaths, and one of your latest contentions is that Jesus didn't die on the cross of Calvary to take away the old covenant. When these are pointed out to you, you offer nothing in defense for your contentions.
 
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k4c

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You neither understand the gospel or the work of salvation in our lives.

The old agreement consisted of sin and death of which has been made obsolete through the death of Jesus. The new agreement is God's grace but that does not mean the Law is obsolete. The terms of an agreement can be made obsolete while the contents of an agreement can stay the same.

I can rent you an appartment for a certain price under one agreement and then rent you that same apartment under a different agreement for the same price.

God takes the Law on stone under the old agreement and writes in our hearts under the new agreement, same Law under both agreements

Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days,'' says the Lord, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

The word, adoption is a legal term with legal guidlines and ramifications.
 
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VictorC

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To claim that I don't understand the Gospel doesn't add any credibility to your previous testimony that your salvation demands a return to the dead works Christianity affirms a repentance from. You have also posted your opinion that you wouldn't last long in a traditional Adventist church in the recent past. Now look at your own signature line, and see that you contradict both your contention that you aren't a Christian nor an Adventist with a line stating that you are a Christian and an Adventist. Nothing you have posted has aligned with your conversation.

This includes your claim that God was to take the law written on tablets of stone and write into our hearts, when Jeremiah prophesied that God was going to give us His "My law" unlike the law ordained at Mount Sinai, which causes an effect in the recipients the former law was unable to accomplish. Hebrews 8 continues to note from Jeremiah's prophecy that the former law is obsolete, and yet you have the gall to contradict Scripture and claim that the new covenant is the old covenant. According to you, there is no such thing as a new covenant.

These are the red herrings you continue to post, in order to avoid responding to the post that has already been presented to you. All you can do is opine contradictions, and never answer why you don't keep any of the sabbaths contained in the law. Here is the latest post you still haven't responded to:
Jesus' didn't come to die on a cross to take away the Ten Commandment, but rather, He died to to take the penalty for breaking them while under the old covenant and He came to establish with His words the terms of a new covneant.
It only takes a cursory view of Hebrews 10:9 where it states "He takes away the first that He may establish the second", and then compare Scripture against what you posted to conclude your contention in complete error.
You haven't found a "fourth commandment", which has been a request made to you by more than one member. The narrative Luke wrote shows he apparently had to explain "according to the commandment" to a Gentile recipient of his Gospel account regarding Mary's rest on the sabbath. Once Jesus resurrected and opened the understanding of His disciples, "according to the commandment" of feigned compliance to the first covenant is never found again in Scripture. Assembling on the sabbath days is not compliance to the first covenant law to keep the sabbath holy, which in the law mandates the burnt offerings under a priesthood that has no part in the new covenant.

The Gospel describes our adoption as God's purchased possession (Galatians 4:4-7), in which we have the same sovereignty over the created law the King enjoys, that has no jurisdiction over the King's children (Matthew 17:24-26): "Jesus said to him, Then the sons are free". We are not bound to the old covenant anymore, which does not convey a promise of eternal life to those remaining in it (Galatians 4:30).

BlackSabb made an observation that others have made in the past:
I pointed out that Mary complied with both of the sabbaths the historical account reveals in the week Jesus was crucified. You do not. The hypocrisy of your conversation is consistent with your contradiction with Scripture. Others are able to see the inconsistency in your own witness, and want no part of it. In summary, you don't know the law, it shows, and your posts are a joke.
 
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VictorC

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Romans 2:13 For the ones that God will justify are not those who have heard the Law but those who have kept the Law.

So very, very clear. I guess God is sending strong delusion.
Paul describes the tenet of compliance to the first covenant accurately in Romans 2:13, as has been pointed out to you before. If your contention is that the only people that are justified before God are those compliant with the first covenant, you contradict the context this verse has been extracted from as well as Paul's conclusion in Romans 3:10 where he points out "As it is written: There is none righteous, no, not one". Paul reaffirms this conclusion in Romans 3:20 where he wrote "by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight".

The delusion you describe is caused by your practice that is warned against in Isaiah 28:
9 ¶ "Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just drawn from the breasts?
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little."
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people,
12 To whom He said, "This is the rest with which You may cause the weary to rest," And, "This is the refreshing"; Yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was to them, "Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little," That they might go and fall backward, and be broken And snared and caught.
You have not heard about the rest God promised those who were burdened with the shadow of the sabbath for 1500 years, that remained a promise to attain during the sabbath's entire tenure. It isn't because no one hasn't told you about God's rest. It is because you have a preclusion that requires you to twist Scripture into "precept upon precept, line upon line, Here a little, there a little" until you arrive at a message not found in the Bible.

God didn't send you this strong delusion. It was described 2700 years ago, long before the prophecy described in 2 Thessalonians 2:11 will have effect at a time still in the future. The delusion you're bound to is one of your own making, and you can't blame God for it.
 
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VictorC

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But the law demands death k4c. In fact, you should kill everyone who doesn't worship on the Sabbath. Sabbath-breakers are to be killed. That is what is in the law.
Talk about double standards. Talk about having your cake and eating it too. Every argument you use to maintain the OT sabbath can be used to maintain the practice of stoning homosexuals.

You're backed into a corner friend. Give it up.
You guys make me laugh...
I noticed that k4c dismissed all the sabbaths with no intent to keep any of them. Others have noted k4c's hypocrisy regarding his selective noncompliance to the law.

...and all k4c can do is laugh about his predicament.

It would seem k4c has fallen into a pit of his own making.
 
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VictorC

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k4c

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When God calls something holy, it's holy.

The seventh day was declared holy as part of creation before all the other sabbath days that came as a result of sin. You can deny that all day and explain away all the Scriptural proof but the truth still stands.

God protected the holiness of the seventh by His Law. You can explain that truth too but it still stands.

Jesus neither did away with the holiness of the seventh day nor did He change the day.

All you questions have been answered, maybe not the answer you wanted but none the less, they were answer.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath so that means the Sabbath is the Lord's day. If Jesus is your Lord than the seventh day is the day you should honor just as the fouth commandments says.

But hey, if you don't want to obey God that's your freewill right.
 
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VictorC

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When God calls something holy, it's holy.

The seventh day was declared holy as part of creation before all the sabbath days that came as a result of sin. You can deny that all day and explain away all the Scriptural proof but the truth still stands.
Yet you have concluded that the promise of entering into God's rest that has its origin with the seventh day of creation is to be ignored, and you want to claim that others are to abide by the sabbath instead (note I edited out a technical error in your post).
God protected the holiness of the seventh by His Law. You can explain that truth too but it still stands.
The holiness of the seventh day was never supported nor dependent on the law. The law ordained the sabbath instead.
Jesus neither did away with the holiness of the seventh day nor did He change the day.
Yet you won't enter into God's rest that has its origin on the seventh day of creation. You want the sabbath to remain established instead.
You reveal that you have confused the sabbath with God's rest, you confirm your opinion that you don't believe there is a new covenant, and your contention regarding disobedience doesn't align with your practice of disregarding all of the sabbaths, including the sabbath on a weekly cycle. As I mentioned in an earlier post:
The hypocrisy of your conversation is consistent with your contradiction with Scripture. Others are able to see the inconsistency in your own witness, and want no part of it. In summary, you don't know the law, it shows, and your posts are a joke.​
This continues to describe your posts.
 
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Laodicean

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And that's your only reply? Why don't you detail for all of us how keeping the sabbath is any different to the commandment to stone homosexuals?

the difference is that Israel functioned under a theocracy. After the cross, there is no theocracy in existence. We do not have any direction from God to stone anyone for anything, now that the theocracy is defunct. Punishments that were employed during the Israelite-Yahweh relationship cannot be employed now.

And if you think keeping the Sabbath is the same as the commandment for stoning homosexuals, then, to be consistent, you are going to have to say that the rest of the ten commandments are the same as the commandment for stoning homosexuals. In other words, dispense with them.

Learning to differentiate is of great value.

(Delete the rest because I've had enough of posturing and strutting and one-upmanship, where it matters more to win than to search for truth.)
 
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Pythons

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If, as SDA's teach, that a law will be passed that prevents people from going to Church on Satuday.......
...Will happen to Catholic Mass that's held each and every Saturday.

Will the Catholic Church be prevented from attending Mass on Saturday each and every week??????
...The Saturday Mass at the Church I go to has nearly as many people attending as on Sunday?

What happens with that?
 
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Kira Light

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Is the Saturday service the same as the Sunday one? I don't know much about Catholics.

I would guess that when the evil pope beast takes over the world and forces all to worship on Sunday he will do away with Saturday Mass.
 
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k4c

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Salvation is of the heart. This means the Sabbath is first understood in the heart to be God's holy day. We actively seek to make the day holy, going to church is only part of it. I'm sure some Catholics go to Church on Saturday out of convenience rather than it being the Sabbath but either way if they attend church on the seventh day because they want to honor the commandment God will honor them. If that's the case they will suffer persecution in the last days.
 
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Pythons

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Is the Saturday service the same as the Sunday one? I don't know much about Catholics.

Yes, Mass is Mass....
...Each Mass is "identical" with the only difference being different daily readings.
...From the Sacred Scriptures.

Kira said:
I would guess that when the evil pope beast takes over the world and forces all to worship on Sunday he will do away with Saturday Mass.

That's the part I don't get because it would require the Catholic Church....
...To "attack itself" & change it's teachings which is impossible.
 
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Pythons

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That would require that the Catholic Church attack itself via attacking it's own "sheep".....
....The Catholic Church holds Mass "daily".
...Mass is simply the worship of Christ as God.
 
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k4c

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That would require that the Catholic Church attack itself via attacking it's own "sheep".....
....The Catholic Church holds Mass "daily".
...Mass is simply the worship of Christ as God.

You might want to ask Martin Luther about the church turning on their own for not agreeing with the pope's doctrines.
 
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Kira Light

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That would require that the Catholic Church attack itself via attacking it's own "sheep".....
....The Catholic Church holds Mass "daily".
...Mass is simply the worship of Christ as God.

you might as well be worshiping satan as far as k4c or EGW are concerned. in fact, i can dig you up an EGW quote where she says exactly that if you're interested.
 
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Pythons

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You might want to ask Martin Luther about the church turning on their own for not agreeing with the pope's doctrines.

Is it not a teaching of SDA - that shortly prior to the "end of days"...
...The Catholic Church will initiate a rule of law which prevents people from the worship of Christ on Saturday?

Martin Luther had no such teaching that I'm aware of & it's not the question I asked...
...For your eschatology to be valid it would necessitate the Catholic Church admit it taught error in holding Mass on Saturday.
...Not to mention huge sections of the Orthodox Christian Faith which holds 'sabbath service' every Saturday.

I'm interested in knowing in what way do you feel the Catholic Church....
...Will convict itself of teaching heresy.
...Because that is what would be required for the Catholic Church to cease the worship of Christ as God on Saturday.

Can you provide an aswer for me?
 
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