What must you do to inherit eternal life?

[FletcherMurdoch]

Hey guys, my friends and i are working supper hard to put together this website and I want some feed back ! No, it's not weird ! Also, I think that what we make our souls through struggle and belief. They aren;t given too us.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

The account of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar does not in the least contradict what I have said. Are you seriously going to argue that the rich man has everlasting life

everlasting life of damnation ....yes

, and Lazarus has eternal life?

a form of eternal life but not the best since an OLD TEST SAINT hebrews 11:40. 2 peter 1:40 greatest and best promises

As though there were a difference between the two? The same Greek words are translated both ways in scripture.

does not mean they are correct

There is no quantitive difference between the two terms, but there is a correct application of those terms. You are trying to make a doctrinal distinction between two equivalent terms. That is poor theology, my friend. Very poor theology.

you have teached where?

I have asked several questions which you have studiously avoided answering, preferring instead to just repeat your own view (and not all that clearly, I might add), as though repetition would establsih it as true. You have not even attempted to address the logical issues I have raised.

and you have answered my questions with jabbering, personel attacks ect ....

there is peace in Christ but not always among the body till the rapture

 

[A Brother In Christ]

To be very specific and accurate, Believers have everlasting life, as promised in John 3:16. Those in Hell, Hades, or wherever, do not have everlasting life, they have everlasting torment which is not the same thing. They are conscious, they are in torment, and they always will be, but to call that "life" in the same way as the Life Believers enjoy is grossly inaccurate, and unbiblical. True life is found only in Christ. Anything apart from that is death (not cessation of existence, but lack of True Life).

what is life.... some one being drunk that is not alive according to your thinking...

if a person is drugged up are they alive .... ...

if not a person could kill them and claim they were already dead with your thought process

the rich man had no relationship with God yet is very much alive with a body in Hell ...but He is not eternal since He could not believe ....since He can not have everlasting life ...yet we see that this rich person does ....will suffer forever...

 

[nobdysfool]

so believer are not the temple of God? 1 cor 6:19

You're not understanding what I'm saying, you're filtering it through preconceived notions.

God alone is eternal. We are not. We have a beginning, a point before which we did not exist. God has no such beginning point. When I say we cannot contain the infinite, what I'm saying is that we cannot possess an attribute that belongs to God alone. Only God has eternal life, meaning life without beginning or end, ever-existant. We can have everlasting life, which is life without end.

By saying that those in Hell have everlasting life, you cheapen the gift of God. Believers receive everlasting life from God, as promised in John 3:16. if unbelievers also receive everlasting life at the Judgment, how is everlasting life a benefit for the Believer? The operative word here is "life". True life is only obtained by faith in Christ. The so-called life that the sinner has is life in the sense that he is conscious, and able to think and reason, but compared to Life in Christ, it is not true life, in terms of quality. It is more properly existence. The real issue here is not "eternal" vs. "everlasting", but the proper definition of life. And you're not dealing with it.

 

[nobdysfool]

everlasting life of damnation ....yes

So to you, everlasting life is nothing more than just endless existence, regardless of the state one is in (Redeemed or Damned)?

a form of eternal life but not the best since an OLD TEST SAINT hebrews 11:40. 2 peter 1:40 greatest and best promises

Ignoring for a moment that you have hinted at the OT saints being "second class" citizens in Heaven, now you want to say that there are different levels of eternal life, without any scriptural warrant. I see. Your scripture references do not say that.

and you have answered my questions with jabbering, personel attacks ect ....

No, I have answered your questions with serious logical statements which you have not answered in kind, and I have sought to draw out exactly what it is you're trying to promote, which you seem reluctant to actually come out and say. I'm looking for clear, accurate theology, and I'm not getting that from you. Sorry if that offends you, but theology is not ephemeral, nebulous, non-specific mumbo-jumbo. Spiritual things are not illogical and contradictory, because the spiritual is what is really real. "It is the Spirit that gives life. The flesh profits nothing."

there is peace in Christ but not always among the body till the rapture

Sorry, but I see that as a cop-out. You're trying to play the victim here, rather than seriously address the issue.

 

[nobdysfool]

what is life.... some one being drunk that is not alive according to your thinking...

if a person is drugged up are they alive ....

if not a person could kill them and claim they were already dead with your thought process

Baloney! I am saying no such thing! You, on the other hand, appear to be saying that life is life, and there is no real difference between the sinner and the saint, that they both have everlasting life. Well then, what benefit is the promise of God in John 3:16, where he says that whosoever believes will have everlasting life?

Do you not see that there is a huge qualitative difference in the kind of life the sinner has, and the kind of life the believer has? And no, it is not that one is eternal, because I've already clearly shown that no man can possess eternal life which is an attribute of God alone.

the rich man had no relationship with God yet is very much alive with a body in Hell ...but He is not eternal since He could not believe ....since He can not have everlasting life ...yet we see that this rich person does ....will suffer forever...

And you want to call that everlasting life, the same as what the Believer receives when he places his trust in Christ....It is flat out wrong to say that sinners have everlasting life, and there is not one verse in scripture that says that they do. NOT ONE! You are mis-using the term, and are refusing to be corrected.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Baloney! I am saying no such thing! You, on the other hand, appear to be saying that life is life, and there is no real difference between the sinner and the saint, that they both have everlasting life. Well then, what benefit is the promise of God in John 3:16, where he says that whosoever believes will have everlasting life?

once again this is eternal...I know you disagree...look up the greek ....all three words for everlasting, and eternal...

Do you not see that there is a huge qualitative difference in the kind of life the sinner has, and the kind of life the believer has? And no, it is not that one is eternal, because I've already clearly shown that no man can possess eternal life which is an attribute of God alone.

In your own mind... yet you are wrong...

God promises to renew are minds right know if we refleck are selves in the heavenlies...eph 4:23..positional truth
In the Future we will have a body like Christ humanity ..phil 3:21

And you want to call that everlasting life, the same as what the Believer receives when he places his trust in Christ....It is flat out wrong to say that sinners have everlasting life, and there is not one verse in scripture that says that they do. NOT ONE! You are mis-using the term, and are refusing to be corrected.

luke 16:19-31 ...this person in hell has everlasting life just as the demons will have in Jude 6

yet you want to ignore..

When Christ comes for His bride eph 5:25-27...what is the ring that he has given her...eternal life

john 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee[right now!]the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent...

definition a good quality of life like Christ which Christians do not always use...

was this given to OT believers NO this is new to the bride

The Jew was the wedding party Matt 25:1:13 ...the bride is a mystery to the Jews since at there time Gentiles had no hope eph 2:12-13 and the were a mystery eph 5:25-33

 

[mlqurgw]

once again this is eternal...I know you disagree...look up the greek ....all three words for everlasting, and eternal...

In your own mind... yet you are wrong...

God promises to renew are minds right know if we refleck are selves in the heavenlies...eph 4:23..positional truth
In the Future we will have a body like Christ humanity ..phil 3:21



luke 16:19-31 ...this person in hell has everlasting life just as the demons will have in Jude 6

yet you want to ignore..

When Christ comes for His bride eph 5:25-27...what is the ring that he has given her...eternal life

john 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee[right now!]the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent...

definition a good quality of life like Christ which Christians do not always use...

was this given to OT believers NO this is new to the bride

The Jew was the wedding party Matt 25:1:13 ...the bride is a mystery to the Jews since at there time Gentiles had no hope eph 2:12-13 and the were a mystery eph 5:25-33

Honestly, I have not read anything you have said on this subject that actually made sense. I have kept up with the thread and the debate. If I might suggest that you back off for a while and rethink your postion. If you can come up with a cogent argument with sensible reasons to back it up come back and give them. At this point you have actually done nothing but defend an undefedable position.

 

[kw5kw]

The way I see it is,
Eternal is existing from before the beginning of time, i.e. God
Everlasting is man from the time that he is born. You will be in one of two places; (1) everlasting life in heaven or (2) everlasting punishment in hell.

 

[nobdysfool]

once again this is eternal...I know you disagree...look up the greek ....all three words for everlasting, and eternal...

It is translated as "everlasting" in the KJV, and many other translations. You just dismiss it with a wave of your hand, claiming they're wrong, and you know better. Yet you have not given one well-reasoned proof, and have not addressed the points I have made.

In your own mind... yet you are wrong...

Just because you say so?? Give me some real proof, a well-reasoned and understandable defense of your position. Do you know how to do so?

God promises to renew are minds right know if we refleck are selves in the heavenlies...eph 4:23..positional truth
In the Future we will have a body like Christ humanity ..phil 3:21

If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Eph 4:21-24)

Let me see if I can understand what you're trying to say. First I will correct the spelling errors and see if that helps.

ABIC: God promises to renew our minds right now if we reflect ourselves in the heavenlies...positional truth.

What in the world are you talking about? Paul writes "be ye renewed in the spirit of your mind", by putting off the old man (sin) and putting on the new man (Christ). Renewing the mind is a work of the Holy Spirit done in conjunction with our cooperation in sanctification.

Reflect ourselves in the heavenlies? I have no idea what you mean. Nor is it clear what you mean by positional truth. You're going to have to explain those terms.

ABIC: In the Future we will have a body like Christ's humanity...

For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Phi 3:20-21)

Yes, this is true. Our bodies will be changed, transformed, into a glorified body like Christ's glorified human body. What that has to do with the topic is somewhat obscure.

luke 16:19-31 ...this person in hell has everlasting life just as the demons will have in Jude 6 ...yet you want to ignore..

They have everlasting torment, ABIC. As a contrast with the everlasting life the believer receives, there is no comparison, and no congruity. Calling the existence the sinner and the demons have in Hell to be "everlasting life", using the same term as the Bible does for what the Believer receives, demeans and devalues everlasting life, both the actuality and the term.

Lest there be any question, I will state my position again: Eternal Life is an attribute of God, because eternal by its very definition means "without beginning or end." It is impossible for any created being to possess eternal life, because every created being had a definite beginning, a point before which they did not exist. A created being (man) can possess Everlasting Life, and that Life is promised to those whom God has sired and birthed into His Family. Everlasting Life is the reward and gift to those who Believe on Christ. The Bible is very clear on this.

Everlasting Life has no end, but it DOES have a beginning, and therefore is not the same as Eternal Life. It is similar, as similar as created, finite beings are able to contain and possess once given to them, but eternal and everlasting differ in that one is without beginning, and the other is not. Therefore, Eternal properly only can refer to God, His Attributes, and His Nature.

It is inappropriate and inaccurate to refer to the Life given as a gift to Believers as Eternal, when in fact it is Everlasting. Nowhere in scripture is it ever said that sinners and demons and fallen angels possess everlasting life, but rather, in Hell they will possess everlasting torment and punishment.

There is no verse which states in so many words that the sinner and demons have everlasting life. Not one verse, anywhere in scripture. This is your own idea, and it hasn't been thought through very well, because I have pointed out the serious flaw in your reasoning (or lack of it), and you will not even address it, or attempt a rational defense.

I am ignoring nothing, ABIC. It is you who has ignored the correction being given to you.

When Christ comes for His bride eph 5:25-27...what is the ring that he has given her...eternal life

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. (Eph 5:25-27)

Where do you get that in this passage? IT'S NOT THERE, ABIC! Ring? You're making this stuff up!

john 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee[right now!]the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent...

definition a good quality of life like Christ which Christians do not always use...

was this given to OT believers NO this is new to the bride

So you DO believe that the OT saints are second-class citizens in Heaven, and the Gentiles get all the best from God. What utter hogwash!

The Jew was the wedding party Matt 25:1:13 ...the bride is a mystery to the Jews since at there time Gentiles had no hope eph 2:12-13 and the were a mystery eph 5:25-33

Just more of your made-up off the wall doctrine. Sorry, I ain't buying it.

I have shown you conclusively that you are claiming that the translators were not consistent, while at the same time manifesting huge inconsistencies in how you want to handle this topic. Your position makes no sense. I have laid out a logical and clear reasoning of this topic, and you have done nothing even remotely well-reasoned or clear in kind. I can only conclude that you don't care that your position is faulty, false, and full of logical contradictions, and you have no interest in being shown any different than what you have already decided you want to believe, no matter the evidence against it. Handling the Truth of God's Word so carelessly is itself a grave error. I would have thought that you would know better.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

ABIC: God promises to renew our minds right now if we reflect ourselves in the heavenlies...positional truth.

What in the world are you talking about? Paul writes "be ye renewed in the spirit of your mind", by putting off the old man (sin) and putting on the new man (Christ). Renewing the mind is a work of the Holy Spirit done in conjunction with our cooperation in sanctification.

Reflect ourselves in the heavenlies? I have no idea what you mean. Nor is it clear what you mean by positional truth. You're going to have to explain those terms.

ABIC: In the Future we will have a body like Christ's humanity...

For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Phi 3:20-21)

Yes, this is true. Our bodies will be changed, transformed, into a glorified body like Christ's glorified human body. What that has to do with the topic is somewhat obscure.

eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed[said good words about] us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

positional truth...

1 cor 15:40-45 different glorys to bodies..

2 cor 3:18 ...this is right now as one learns to use eternal life God can be show out thru the body of dirt

Moses glory by seeing the Lord faded away ..burning bush
Daniel 12:2 OT saint get eternal life AT THE 2ND COMING

church get eternal life right now John 17:3...right now so we can use it do to Christ indwelling in us....John 14:20-21

As one uses eternal life glory get brighter and brighter...

1 john 3:2 positional truth becomeing reality


sorry if you do not understand my thoughts...be patience read the verses maybe you will learn something

 

[A Brother In Christ]

It is inappropriate and inaccurate to refer to the Life given as a gift to Believers as Eternal, when in fact it is Everlasting. Nowhere in scripture is it ever said that sinners and demons and fallen angels possess everlasting life, but rather, in Hell they will possess everlasting torment and punishment.

.

yet the same word is used back and for in greek and you argue that its not eternal ...yet you say it can go back and forth...


what ever

 

[nobdysfool]

yet the same word is used back and for in greek and you argue that its not eternal ...yet you say it can go back and forth...


what ever

You don't get it, do you?

 

[nobdysfool]

sorry if you do not understand my thoughts...be patience read the verses maybe you will learn something

Please get someone to write for you who can actually say something. Your sentence fragments and partial sentences make it impossible to discern what you mean.

I can't help feeling that there is a gnostic element at work here....Every time I have looked at a verse you cite, and I usually quote the verses that people cite in their posts in my replies, I have not seen anything even remotely like what you're saying. I don't think anyone else does, either.

It's painfully obvious to me that what I have said has gone completely over your head. You seem to take the inconsistent way the translators have dealt with the Greek regaring eternal vs. everlasting, and imbue their inconsistency with the force of scripture itself, when logic and reason show that they didn't have a consistent understanding. Just because some translator chose eternal when he should have, and could have, chosen everlasting, that doesn't mean that he did it right. All translations have errors and less than perfect results. The Greek words can be translated equally well either way, so the reason to choose one over the other does not lie with the words themselves, but with the subject matter, and some clear understanding of the English word equivalents, and what they mean. I have shown quite clearly why eternal and everlasting are not interchangeable terms based on definitons, the context, and who the term refers to, but you refuse to see it. And you offer no clear or cogent reason why.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

All translations have errors and less than perfect results.

exactly what I have been saying

 

[nobdysfool]

exactly what I have been saying

Then why do you stubbornly stick to an error?

 

[A Brother In Christ]

aidios..greek word for everlasting....time related

example jude 6 reserved in everlasting chains till when rev 20:10 cast into lake of fire..

Romans 1:20 creation they can see power and a creator but they can not tell when it happened ...shows limited time...

aion .. an age

Aionios .adjective ending ..Eternal life ...no time...no beginning or end

Note from scofield bibleRev 22:19 book of life ...Eternal life, Summary(1) This life is call"eternal" because it is from the eternity which is past to the eternity which is to come-it is life of Godrevealed in JC, who is God(jn1:4;5:26;1jn1:1-2) (2) This life of God, which is revealed in Christ, is imparted in a new birth by the Holy Spirit, acting upon the Word of God, to every believer in the Lord JC (jn3:3-15) (3) The life thus imparted is not a new life except in the sense of human possession; it is still "that which was from the beginning" But the recipient is a new creation(2 cor 5:17,Gal 6:15). And (4) the life of God which is in the believer is an unsevered part of the life which eternally was, and eternally is, in Christ Jesus- one life in Him and in the believer; Vine and branches, Head and members(jn 15:1-5, 1 cor 6:17,12:12:14,gal 2:20, col 1:27;3:3-4;1jn 5:11:12)

col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear

we are transfused in to Christ /joined to thus able to enjoy the eternal life

 

[Sentry]

aidios..greek word for everlasting....time related

example jude 6 reserved in everlasting chains till when rev 20:10 cast into lake of fire..

Romans 1:20 creation they can see power and a creator but they can not tell when it happened ...shows limited time...

aion .. an age

Aionios .adjective ending ..Eternal life ...no time...no beginning or end

Note from scofield bibleRev 22:19 book of life ...Eternal life, Summary(1) This life is call"eternal" because it is from the eternity which is past to the eternity which is to come-it is life of Godrevealed in JC, who is God(jn1:4;5:26;1jn1:1-2) (2) This life of God, which is revealed in Christ, is imparted in a new birth by the Holy Spirit, acting upon the Word of God, to every believer in the Lord JC (jn3:3-15) (3) The life thus imparted is not a new life except in the sense of human possession; it is still "that which was from the beginning" But the recipient is a new creation(2 cor 5:17,Gal 6:15). And (4) the life of God which is in the believer is an unsevered part of the life which eternally was, and eternally is, in Christ Jesus- one life in Him and in the believer; Vine and branches, Head and members(jn 15:1-5, 1 cor 6:17,12:12:14,gal 2:20, col 1:27;3:3-4;1jn 5:11:12)

col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear

we are transfused in to Christ /joined to thus able to enjoy the eternal life

You are quite right to make a distinction between aidios and aionios.

The notion that the Greek word ainion means an infinite time continuum is quite incorrect.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

You are quite right to make a distinction between aidios and aionios.

The notion that the Greek word ainion means an infinite time continuum is quite incorrect.

so how old is God....timeless

by the way what greek training do you have...

This was told to me by a pastor that knows greek and hebrew....

 

[nobdysfool]

aidios..greek word for everlasting....time related

example jude 6 reserved in everlasting chains till when rev 20:10 cast into lake of fire..

Romans 1:20 creation they can see power and a creator but they can not tell when it happened ...shows limited time...

aion .. an age

And angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation, he hath kept in everlasting bonds under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jud 1:6) KJV, ALT, YLT, LITV, ASV, MKJV, NIV.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal
power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Rom 1:20) KJV, MKJV, YLT, LITV, ALT, NIV, ESV, NASB.

As has been pointed out, the translators at least some of the time understand that God alone is Eternal, and translate "aidos" as eternal when referring to Him, and everlasting when referring to other things. here you have the same word used in both references, and translated accordingly. You have just made my point.

Aionios .adjective ending ..Eternal life ...no time...no beginning or end

Note from scofield bibleRev 22:19 book of life ...Eternal life, Summary(1) This life is call"eternal" because it is from the eternity which is past to the eternity which is to come-it is life of Godrevealed in JC, who is God(jn1:4;5:26;1jn1:1-2) (2) This life of God, which is revealed in Christ, is imparted in a new birth by the Holy Spirit, acting upon the Word of God, to every believer in the Lord JC (jn3:3-15) (3) The life thus imparted is not a new life except in the sense of human possession; it is still "that which was from the beginning" But the recipient is a new creation(2 cor 5:17,Gal 6:15). And (4) the life of God which is in the believer is an unsevered part of the life which eternally was, and eternally is, in Christ Jesus- one life in Him and in the believer; Vine and branches, Head and members(jn 15:1-5, 1 cor 6:17,12:12:14,gal 2:20, col 1:27;3:3-4;1jn 5:11:12)

col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear

we are transfused in to Christ /joined to thus able to enjoy the eternal life

Scofield is not infallible, nor are his words. He states his opinion, nothing more. He has no scripture to back up his very first statement.

Trotting out Rev 22:19 is a non-sequitor. It is often used by those who want to claim the high ground when they have a weak argument.

You have not addressed with any reasoned, logical rebuttal what I have said. And this post actually makes my case for me, because your two examples show exactly what I said they should, to be consistent and accurate.