What makes someone a Baptist

[Whitestone]

This may seem like a silly question, but I am uneducated on the diference between being Babtist and other Christianity.

Reason I ask is that when my wife (she has been a Christian much longing than myself) talk about denominations in chuch, she says that I lean to being more of a Baptist mentality.

If anyone could please explain this to me I would be most appreciative.

Whitestone

 

[SumTinWong]

This may seem like a silly question, but I am uneducated on the diference between being Babtist and other Christianity.

Reason I ask is that when my wife (she has been a Christian much longing than myself) talk about denominations in chuch, she says that I lean to being more of a Baptist mentality.

If anyone could please explain this to me I would be most appreciative.

Whitestone

A Babtist? I think you have to be related to Barbara Streisand to be a Babtist.

Anyway Baptists are usually more conservative in our theology, and we lean heavily on the Bible.

What kind of a church do you attend now?

 

[Propadeutic]

Baptists grew out of English Separatism. Historically, besides a commitment to orthodox Christianity, Baptists hold to a distinctive combination of four beliefs:

1. Biblical authority
Baptists reject that church tradition is authoritative when it comes to faith and religious practice. Ultimately, doctrines must be supported by Scripture, and practice must not go against Scripture. Churches can have their traditions, but they are nothing more than traditions and are subject to error. (This is common among Protestants, although different groups are stricter on this point than others.)

2. Congregational church government

A local church consists of believers who covenant together to gather regularly for the various tasks of the church. Churches of like faith and practice may voluntarily associate to accomplish their purposes, but there is no person or organization with divinely vested authority over more than one local church. Churches choose their own ministers, policies, and teachings, although associations may outline what kinds of churches they wish to cooperate with. (Baptists share this with Congregationalist, Christian/Disciples of Christ, "Free," and Bible churches.)

3. Symbolic view of the ordinances

Baptism is the total immersion of a new believer in water as a picture of his cleansing from sin by the Holy Spirit and of his death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. It is through baptism that a believer openly professes loyalty to Christ and enters into membership in the church. The Lord's Supper is the entire congregation's sharing of bread and of the fruit of the vine, to memorialize the death of Christ and the believer's own partaking of Christ's sacrifice when he was saved. Forgiveness of sins comes through faith alone and is not accomplished through or dependent upon baptism or the Lord's supper.

(Any church group that holds this view of the ordinances may be called baptistic. This includes many nondenominational and independent fundamentalist churches, Anabaptists such as Mennonites and Amish, and Quakers who still practice baptism.)

4. Religious Liberty/Freedom of Conscience

Civil government has no legitimate authority over religious faith and practice or other matters of conscience, nor has God granted civil authority to the church. The church may support the government in carrying out its God-given tasks, and the state owes to every church protection and full freedom in the pursuit of its spiritual ends. The church may and should hold its members under discipline, but exercise of that discipline may not extend beyond dismissal from the church in hope of the offender's repentance.

(Baptists developed this idea on their own, opposed by most denominations. But in today's America, just about everybody accepts this to one degree or another.)

---

Since church cooperation is voluntary, Baptists are not all joined together into one organization. Instead, there are many conventions and associations that have arisen independently. (There have also been occasional splits and mergers as with any denomination.)

Major US Baptist groups:

Southern Baptist Convention (16 million members) - conservative, across spectrum from 4-point Arminian to Calvinist
National Baptists, USA (7.5 million) - fairly liberal w/ a social focus
National Baptists of America (3.5 million) - fairly liberal w/ a social focus
National Missionary Baptist (2.2 million) - mix of conservative and liberal
American Baptist Convention (1.5 million) - mostly liberal, some conservative
Baptist Bible Fellowship (1 million) - very conservative
National Primitive Baptist (1 million) - very conservative, Calvinist
General Association of Regular Baptists (300,000) - conservative, historically Calvinist
Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (size unknown) - liberal leadership, but fairly conservative membership
American Baptist Association (250,000) - extremely conservative
Baptist Missionary Association (230,000) - extremely conservative
Free Will Baptist (200,000) - conservative, Arminian
Conservative Baptist Association (200,000) - very conservative
Baptist General Conference (135,000) - conservative, with some liberal elements

 

[Whitestone]

Thank you, this very helpful.

As for the church my wife and I are attending, it is a very evangelistic church, but seems to hold to guidelines of being a BaPtist church, just does not have Baptist in the name.

Thankfully a spelling test in not required for salvation.

Whitestone

 

[FreeinChrist]

Thankfully a spelling test in not required for salvation.

I'm thankful for that, too!! Spelling and typing are the banes of my life!

 

[SumTinWong]

Thankfully a spelling test in not required for salvation.

I hope that I didn't offend you I was just having some fun. I mispall staff awl the tyme

 

[Whitestone]

No offense at all, I enjoy being able to laugh at myself. Always makes good fun even when I am by myself. hehe

 

[Cary.Melvin]

4. Religious Liberty/Freedom of Conscience

Civil government has no legitimate authority over religious faith and practice or other matters of conscience, nor has God granted civil authority to the church. The church may support the government in carrying out its God-given tasks, and the state owes to every church protection and full freedom in the pursuit of its spiritual ends. The church may and should hold its members under discipline, but exercise of that discipline may not extend beyond dismissal from the church in hope of the offender's repentance.

(Baptists developed this idea on their own, opposed by most denominations. But in today's America, just about everybody accepts this to one degree or another.)

Is this teaching Biblical? or is this just a Baptist tradition?

 

[Propadeutic]

Is this teaching Biblical? or is this just a Baptist tradition?

It's based on biblical principles, particularly in the New Testament, but Baptists were among the first to articulate it. John Bunyan was the first to give it full doctrinal development.

Some of the ideas involved are these:
- God has never granted a civil governor authority or power over the souls of his subjects. Even in theocratic Israel, the king's religious duties were carefully restricted, and even the best kings (such as Josiah) could not save their people apart from the people's own repentance.
- Each person stands before God to answer for himself and is saved or lost on the basis of his own status.
- Christianity is a matter of personal faith, which cannot be forced upon anyone.
- Whatever is not from faith is sin, and so to believe and worship contrary to one's conscience is sinful. Thus, it is fruitless for the state to force people to believe and worship differently from their convictions, even if the state's doctrine were correct.
- "Enforced Christianity" looks only on outward appearances, leading inevitably to widespread hypocrisy and the assumption of salvation based on being in a Christian state.
- Since no one's doctrine is permanently perfect, state-enforced doctrine inevitably leads to persecution of those who are in the right.
- The New Testament places correct doctrine and practice in the hands of the church, not the state.
- The New Testament process of church discipline consists of calls to repentance followed by disfellowshipping in hope of restoration, never actual punishment.

If you're curious, I'd encourage you to read the teachings and work of early Baptists such as Bunyan, Isaac Backus, Roger Williams, and John Leland. The SBC's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission also has a wealth of relevant materials.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

It's based on biblical principles, particularly in the New Testament, but Baptists were among the first to articulate it. John Bunyan was the first to give it full doctrinal development.

Some of the ideas involved are these:
- God has never granted a civil governor authority or power over the souls of his subjects. Even in theocratic Israel, the king's religious duties were carefully restricted, and even the best kings (such as Josiah) could not save their people apart from the people's own repentance.
- Each person stands before God to answer for himself and is saved or lost on the basis of his own status.
- Christianity is a matter of personal faith, which cannot be forced upon anyone.
- Whatever is not from faith is sin, and so to believe and worship contrary to one's conscience is sinful. Thus, it is fruitless for the state to force people to believe and worship differently from their convictions, even if the state's doctrine were correct.
- "Enforced Christianity" looks only on outward appearances, leading inevitably to widespread hypocrisy and the assumption of salvation based on being in a Christian state.
- Since no one's doctrine is permanently perfect, state-enforced doctrine inevitably leads to persecution of those who are in the right.
- The New Testament places correct doctrine and practice in the hands of the church, not the state.
- The New Testament process of church discipline consists of calls to repentance followed by disfellowshipping in hope of restoration, never actual punishment.

If you're curious, I'd encourage you to read the teachings and work of early Baptists such as Bunyan, Isaac Backus, Roger Williams, and John Leland. The SBC's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission also has a wealth of relevant materials.

Do Baptists support the idea of separation of church and state?

If so are Baptist begining to re-examine this doctrine in light of the recent "de-Christianization" of America because of efforts of secular humanists who wish to erradicate all Christian religious influence in our society? Does a society have to have to have some sort of religeous underpinings to maintain its culture?

It has been my understanding that while America has no official state sponsered religion. Culturaly speaking America is a Protestant Christian nation and its laws and values reflect that influence.

 

[Crazy Liz]

4. Religious Liberty/Freedom of Conscience

Civil government has no legitimate authority over religious faith and practice or other matters of conscience, nor has God granted civil authority to the church. The church may support the government in carrying out its God-given tasks, and the state owes to every church protection and full freedom in the pursuit of its spiritual ends. The church may and should hold its members under discipline, but exercise of that discipline may not extend beyond dismissal from the church in hope of the offender's repentance.

(Baptists developed this idea on their own, opposed by most denominations. But in today's America, just about everybody accepts this to one degree or another.)

It's based on biblical principles, particularly in the New Testament, but Baptists were among the first to articulate it. John Bunyan was the first to give it full doctrinal development.

Actually, not true unless you also are claiming the Anabaptists got their ideas from the Baptists, who came up with them 100 years later.

Is this teaching Biblical? or is this just a Baptist tradition?

Although Pro gives some persuasive rationales, it actually stems largely from the fact that it was Christian governments who put the first Anabaptists to death. Anabaptist families used to have three books: the Bible, a hymnal, and The Martyr's Mirror. Our theology was formed under these conditions.

If the Lutherans and Roman Catholics had not killed so many Anabaptists, this doctrine may never have been developed. However, it seems quite relevant today, in that our modern/postmodern Western cultures resemble the pluralism of the first and second century Roman Empire than they do "Christendom."

 

[Crazy Liz]

Do Baptists support the idea of separation of church and state?

Yes, I think so. Although the Anabaptists invented the idea.

If so are Baptist begining to re-examine this doctrine in light of the recent "de-Christianization" of America because of efforts of secular humanists who wish to erradicate all Christian religious influence in our society? Does a society have to have to have some sort of religeous underpinings to maintain its culture?

Maybe I'm derailing this thread too far talking about Anabaptist thought, but I think an adequate understanding of separation of church and state is essential in order to maintain Christianity in a pluralistic culture. Personally, I would rather live in a tolerant pluralistic culture than in one where "Christians" persecute their brothers and sisters. Unfortunately, Anabaptist experience has taught us that only one or the other is possible. When a government claims religious authority, religious thought and dissent are suppressed in a most un-Christian way.

*First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Sinai]

Baptists grew out of English Separatism. Historically, besides a commitment to orthodox Christianity, Baptists hold to a distinctive combination of four beliefs:

1. Biblical authority
Baptists reject that church tradition is authoritative when it comes to faith and religious practice. Ultimately, doctrines must be supported by Scripture, and practice must not go against Scripture. Churches can have their traditions, but they are nothing more than traditions and are subject to error. (This is common among Protestants, although different groups are stricter on this point than others.)

2. Congregational church government

A local church consists of believers who covenant together to gather regularly for the various tasks of the church. Churches of like faith and practice may voluntarily associate to accomplish their purposes, but there is no person or organization with divinely vested authority over more than one local church. Churches choose their own ministers, policies, and teachings, although associations may outline what kinds of churches they wish to cooperate with. (Baptists share this with Congregationalist, Christian/Disciples of Christ, "Free," and Bible churches.)

3. Symbolic view of the ordinances

Baptism is the total immersion of a new believer in water as a picture of his cleansing from sin by the Holy Spirit and of his death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. It is through baptism that a believer openly professes loyalty to Christ and enters into membership in the church. The Lord's Supper is the entire congregation's sharing of bread and of the fruit of the vine, to memorialize the death of Christ and the believer's own partaking of Christ's sacrifice when he was saved. Forgiveness of sins comes through faith alone and is not accomplished through or dependent upon baptism or the Lord's supper.

(Any church group that holds this view of the ordinances may be called baptistic. This includes many nondenominational and independent fundamentalist churches, Anabaptists such as Mennonites and Amish, and Quakers who still practice baptism.)

4. Religious Liberty/Freedom of Conscience

Civil government has no legitimate authority over religious faith and practice or other matters of conscience, nor has God granted civil authority to the church. The church may support the government in carrying out its God-given tasks, and the state owes to every church protection and full freedom in the pursuit of its spiritual ends. The church may and should hold its members under discipline, but exercise of that discipline may not extend beyond dismissal from the church in hope of the offender's repentance.

(Baptists developed this idea on their own, opposed by most denominations. But in today's America, just about everybody accepts this to one degree or another.)

---

Since church cooperation is voluntary, Baptists are not all joined together into one organization. Instead, there are many conventions and associations that have arisen independently. (There have also been occasional splits and mergers as with any denomination.)

Excellent synopsis, Propadeutic. Although much of what I want to add is alluded to or inferred in Propadeutic's post, a few of the other major doctrinal points that tend to distinguish most Baptists from some other Christian denominations include the following:

A. Salvation is by God's grace through faith and acceptance of Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior--and is not earned by baptism, church membership, good works, sacraments or anything else. Baptists also tend to believe in the security of the believer--i.e., that salvation is eternal and that a person who has been truly saved cannot lose his standing as a child of God.

B. Baptists generally believe in the priesthood of the believer (each believer can go directly to the throne of God in prayer through the mediation of Christ Jesus without having to go through any earthly priest, pastor or other person or institution) and in the competency of each soul to read, study and interpret the scripture for himself; no person or institution should have the right or power to compel any other person regarding that other person's religious beliefs. This doctrine may be the reason so many Baptists tend to be wary of creeds....

C. It should be noted that the baptism referred to in Propadeutic's post is believer's baptism. In other words, Baptists have historically only baptized individuals who have made public pesonal decisions to follow Christ.

D. In addition to generally following congregatinal church govenance and standing for religious liberty and freedom of conscience (as noted by Propadeutic), Baptist churches also tend to be autonomous. Since each local church is generally independent, associational and denominational leadership has less control over the local churches than is the case in most Christian denominations. Each church is generally free to associate with other churches or groups of churches as long as those other churches wish to associate with it--but the association is voluntary and may be terminated by either the church or the association. This is another reason it is somewhat difficult to pinpoint "what Baptists believe"--there tend to be differences from church to church as well as from denomination to denomination.

 

[Smidlee]

Do Baptists support the idea of separation of church and state?



It has been my understanding that while America has no official state sponsered religion. Culturaly speaking America is a Protestant Christian nation and its laws and values reflect that influence.

the churches in Virgina (mostly Baptist)had a big hand in getting the first amendment in the Bill of Rights. before that America did had state churches which was mostly Protestant.
Baptists do support the idea the separation of church and state when it comes to their roles. of course this doesn't mean the government can't acknowledge God but mostly the government shouldn't control what preachers preach.( nor make any law which is directed toward any religous group) Remember the constitution never directly mentions seperation of church and state simply because the church are people. the constitution is for the people and by the people which would included the church. Also the government can inforce any laws in the church that not directed at any religous group itself. Example the use illegal drugs in worship service isn't protect by the first amendment since this law isn't toward religion in itself but applies to everyone.
What makes someone a Baptist today is more confusing since now there are so many different groups of Baptist. Also many Protestant agrees with the freedom of religion and no longer practice baby Baptism. What makes me a baptist is the fact I go to a ind. Baptist and also I don't like to be called non-denomination since I want to stand for something.

 

[Smidlee]

Yes, I think so. Although the Anabaptists invented the idea.


.

It was my understanding there were other churches who refused to join the united government churches(of Roman) since at the beginning all the church had no connection with any government. Of course Anabaptists was the few who survived and continue to be seperate from the united state church.

 

[Crazy Liz]

It was my understanding there were other churches who refused to join the united government churches(of Roman) since at the beginning all the church had no connection with any government. Of course Anabaptists was the few who survived and continue to be seperate from the united state church.

You mean the Eastern Orthodox?

 

[Sinai]

Do Baptists support the idea of separation of church and state?

Here is an article I found on the internet (reprint of the essay that won the Baptist Distinctives essay competition a few years back) that deals with your question in a rather informative and interesting way:
http://www.baptiststandard.com/1998/7_29/pages/winner.html

 

[Still Transforming]

Hi all the list of baptist churches from the states was quite comprehensive
but didn't forget the independent baptists - and there's lots of them too