What Makes Creationism a Valid Scientific Alternative?

Jamin4422 · Nov 11, 2012

RickG said:
Would you clarify a little more by what you mean by "scientists with no experience"?

I made that clear when I showed you the photo. I am talking about people who design bridges on paper, but have never got their hands dirty and actually built the bridge. They do not even talk to the people that actually do the work. They hire people that do the dirty work of talking to the people on the job. If you actually were to build stuff the way they design it, there is no way it would work. The first wind to come along would blow it down. The have zero experience when it comes to actually building something out in the real world.

verysincere · Nov 11, 2012

paul becke said:
Some information Evolutionists conveniently ignore. When you've read it, lads and lassies, go the Uncommon Descent, and keep up to date with it, then you won't keep embarrassing yourselves:

OK. Let's play that silly game:

Some information science-deniers conveniently ignore. When you've read it, lads and lassies, go to TalkOrigins.org, and keep up to date with it, then you won't keep embarrassing yourselves posting lists of silly claims that were debunked long ago.

Jamin4422 · Nov 11, 2012

And-U-Say said:
You truly have no idea as to what you are talking about.

I have 30 years of on the job experience. Building the stuff that those idiots try to design on paper.

UncleHermit · Nov 11, 2012

Jamin4422 said:
I have 30 years of on the job experience. Building the stuff that those idiots try to design on paper.

Yet another reason that intelligent design is bunk.

Dieselman · Nov 11, 2012

46AND2 said:
Got any evidence for this, besides copies of manuscripts written decades after the fact by people who weren't the witnesses?

What about the ones who WERE witnesses; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? If it were not true, why would people swear to the last breath that they were, despite torture and the promise of freedom if they recanted? Pray tell what evidence would you like? Want a miracle? Do a little research. There are lots of them. Want to see if God is real? Use the scientific method. Go to church, read the Bible and pray. See if He reveals Himself to you. Otherwise you're just another atheist criticizing what you can't understand.

However, if you want to see some things that science hasn't explained,

10 miracles

Medical miracles

There are hundreds, maybe thousands of unexplained stories of miracles that can be found on the web. Either every single person is lying, or there are supernatural forces in the world that can operate regardless of the laws of science.

46AND2 · Nov 11, 2012

Dieselman said:
What about the ones who WERE witnesses; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? If it were not true, why would people swear to the last breath that they were, despite torture and the promise of freedom if they recanted? Pray tell what evidence would you like? Want a miracle? Do a little research. There are lots of them. Want to see if God is real? Use the scientific method. Go to church, read the Bible and pray. See if He reveals Himself to you. Otherwise you're just another atheist criticizing what you can't understand.

However, if you want to see some things that science hasn't explained,

10 miracles

Medical miracles

There are hundreds, maybe thousands of unexplained stories of miracles that can be found on the web. Either every single person is lying, or there are supernatural forces in the world that can operate regardless of the laws of science.

So in other words, your answer to my question is no.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were not eyewitnesses to the resurrection. They were written decades later and were written on second (or third, or fourth, etc.) hand information. They are accounts of hearsay, at best.

Just because someone is willing to die for a belief, it doesn't make the belief true. Otherwise, you should be following the radical Muslims who are willing to suicide bomb themselves for their 72 virgins.

I did not ask for evidence of miracles, nor unexplained phenomena. I asked for evidence of your claim that there were so many eye witnesses to the resurrection that even the Romans could not deny that it happened.

It wasn't a baseless request. If there is such evidence, I would like to see it.

Go to church, read the Bible, pray, and see what happens? What makes you think I haven't done that? I was a Christian for the first 30 years of my life.

46AND2 · Nov 11, 2012

Dieselman said:
What about the ones who WERE witnesses; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? If it were not true, why would people swear to the last breath that they were, despite torture and the promise of freedom if they recanted? Pray tell what evidence would you like? Want a miracle? Do a little research. There are lots of them. Want to see if God is real? Use the scientific method. Go to church, read the Bible and pray. See if He reveals Himself to you. Otherwise you're just another atheist criticizing what you can't understand.

However, if you want to see some things that science hasn't explained,

10 miracles

Medical miracles

There are hundreds, maybe thousands of unexplained stories of miracles that can be found on the web. Either every single person is lying, or there are supernatural forces in the world that can operate regardless of the laws of science.

I looked at your top 10 miracles list. If they are proof of a supernatural God, why are you not Catholic?

Dieselman · Nov 11, 2012

Try this one.

Dieselman · Nov 11, 2012

46AND2 said:
I looked at your top 10 miracles list. If they are proof of a supernatural God, why are you not Catholic?

Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics. I never read in the Bible anything about:
Intercessors- Jesus said to pray to the Father,
Purgatory- It mentions outer darkness, but states that sins once forgiven are removed from judgement,
A Pope- There are none righteous, no, not one,
The eternal virginity of Mary- The Bible mentions that Jesus had brothers and sisters,
Repetitive praying- "Pray ye not in repetition, as the heavens do,"
Baptism of babies,
Or the exclusive salvation of only one branch of the church.

That said, I have actually seen demons. I have seen things that some would call miracles. I have experienced and felt the presence of God, and I have had many things over the years that convinced me my faith was well place.

You mentioned that you were a Christian for the FIRST 30 years. Perhaps it would have been better had it been the LAST 30 years.

SkyWriting · Nov 11, 2012

And-U-Say said:
3) Science is unified. But since you have no understanding of Science you make these absurd claims. There is some controversy, it is at the edges of understanding, just as it should be.

I've been in Research & Development for 30 years. The process of the scientific method is standardized. The body of knowledge is simply majority rule. No different from politics the majority blows with the winds of change. As it should be because that's the foundation. Always doubt, always question. Always re-check the work of others.

SkyWriting · Nov 11, 2012

Jamin4422 said:
Or see if it blows up.

That's what I did with my first chemistry set.

46AND2 · Nov 11, 2012

Dieselman said:
Try this one.

I asked if you had any evidence OTHER than second hand accounts written decades after the event.

What you have responded with is MORE second hand accounts written decades after the event, and an article about why they should be believed.

You could have just said no.

46AND2 · Nov 11, 2012

Dieselman said:
Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics. I never read in the Bible anything about:
Intercessors- Jesus said to pray to the Father,
Purgatory- It mentions outer darkness, but states that sins once forgiven are removed from judgement,
A Pope- There are none righteous, no, not one,
The eternal virginity of Mary- The Bible mentions that Jesus had brothers and sisters,
Repetitive praying- "Pray ye not in repetition, as the heavens do,"
Baptism of babies,
Or the exclusive salvation of only one branch of the church.

That said, I have actually seen demons. I have seen things that some would call miracles. I have experienced and felt the presence of God, and I have had many things over the years that convinced me my faith was well place.

All those miracles had to do with the Catholic church. If God is revealing himself to the Catholic church through miracles, why would any Christian not be a part of God's chosen denomination?

You mentioned that you were a Christian for the FIRST 30 years. Perhaps it would have been better had it been the LAST 30 years.

Or perhaps it doesn't make a difference one way or the other.

mathetes123 · Nov 11, 2012

SkyWriting said:
I've been in Research & Development for 30 years. The process of the scientific method is standardized. The body of knowledge is simply majority rule. No different from politics the majority blows with the winds of change. As it should be because that's the foundation. Always doubt, always question. Always re-check the work of others.

Global warming and evolution are two prime examples where science is tainted by politics. I would like to see statistics comparing grants to our liberal public universities for studies supporting one side or another of these issues. Follow the money.

Dieselman · Nov 11, 2012

46AND2 said:
I asked if you had any evidence OTHER than second hand accounts written decades after the event.

What you have responded with is MORE second hand accounts written decades after the event, and an article about why they should be believed.

You could have just said no.

I don't believe your great great grandfather existed. Can you prove it? Do you have anything but second hand accounts or a very dubious birth record that may have been altered? Do you have any valid scientific evidence for his existence? If you can't prove he existed, than your great grandfather didn't exist. If your great grandfather didn't exist, then your grandfather didn't exist. If your grandfather didn't exist, then your father didn't exist. If your father didn't exist, then you don't exist. If you don't exist, then you aren't participating in this debate. I win by default.

46AND2 · Nov 11, 2012

Dieselman said:
I don't believe your great great grandfather existed. Can you prove it? Do you have anything but second hand accounts or a very dubious birth record that may have been altered? Do you have any valid scientific evidence for his existence? If you can't prove he existed, than your great grandfather didn't exist. If your great grandfather didn't exist, then your grandfather didn't exist. If your grandfather didn't exist, then your father didn't exist. If your father didn't exist, then you don't exist. If you don't exist, then you aren't participating in this debate. I win by default.

Well that was ridiculous. Why are Christians so bad at analogies?

Dieselman · Nov 11, 2012

46AND2 said:
Well that was ridiculous. Why are Christians so bad at analogies?

Why don't atheists and liberals ever have a sense of humor?

46AND2 · Nov 11, 2012

Dieselman said:
Why don't atheists and liberals ever have a sense of humor?

Not a George Carlin fan, then?

AV1611VET · Nov 11, 2012

46AND2 said:
Got any evidence for this, besides copies of manuscripts written decades after the fact by people who weren't the witnesses?

Are you implying that God let the autographs be Arab-phoned to the point that they are useless as an apologetics tool?

46AND2 · Nov 11, 2012

AV1611VET said:
Are you implying that God let the autographs be Arab-phoned to the point that they are useless as an apologetics tool?

No I'm implying that we have claims of eyewitnesses, with no eyewitness accounts.

What Makes Creationism a Valid Scientific Alternative?

Member

Exegete/Linguist

Member

Regular Member

Dieselman

Guest

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

Dieselman

Guest

Dieselman

Guest

The Librarian

The Librarian

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

Newbie

Dieselman

Guest

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

Dieselman

Guest

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency