What makes a story Dystopian?

[TillICollapse]

I agree emphasizing heart can be a bit cheesy, but I don't remember thinking it was really cheesy alot.

I naturally like science and can tend to disregard the importance of the arts, but I think it's important (for me at least) to remember the importance of such things.

I like progress for the sake of progress, and I know I need to control that. I'd think human cloning was cool, even if I think it might be less than ideal.

Yes the stuff is cool, even with the problems they may present, unfortunately

 

[RDKirk]

We don't have health insurance in the UK. US will keep up with Europe.

Umm no, the US won't keep up with Europe. The US will proudly refuse to keep up with Europe because: 'Murica!

And that's one way dystopias can happen.

 

[mafwons]

On a related note, and not to derail a thread immediately, have you watched Fringe ? If so, thoughts ?

Fringe is good.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Both Utopia and Dystopia are subjective concepts. One person's Utopia is another's Dystopia . Ask Stalin and the millions that disagreed with him. There is no way to objectively state what is or is not a Dystopia. The binary nature of the debate stems from the fact that,no matter the circumstances, at least some group of people will decide that they are living in a Utopia and some other will decide that they are living in a Dystopia. Applying that to the fiction they read is simply a natural process.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Both Utopia and Dystopia are subjective concepts. One person's Utopia is another's Dystopia . Ask Stalin and the millions that disagreed with him. There is no way to objectively state what is or is not a Dystopia. The binary nature of the debate stems from the fact that,no matter the circumstances, at least some group of people will decide that they are living in a Utopia and some other will decide that they are living in a Dystopia. Applying that to the fiction they read is simply a natural process.

I'd think that the author's opinion is what counts the most. Just because some smuck might approve of the oppressive totalitarian Big Brother government does not mean that George Orwell wasn't writing a dystopian novel.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Paradoxum]

Umm no, the US won't keep up with Europe. The US will proudly refuse to keep up with Europe because: 'Murica!

It probably would keep up with important health advances though.

And that's one way dystopias can happen.

Keeping up or not keeping up?

 

[RDKirk]

It probably would keep up with important health advances though.

Precisely the opposite.

 

[RDKirk]

I'd think that the author's opinion is what counts the most. Just because some smuck might approve of the oppressive totalitarian Big Brother government does not mean that George Orwell wasn't writing a dystopian novel.


eudaimonia,

Mark

That's what I was saying in post #33.

 

[TillICollapse]

Fringe is good.

Yes, I thought so too

That's what I was saying in post #33.

Not to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, but in that case, if the author's opinion is what counts the most then part of Fringe is dystopian per the producer's own words.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, I thought so too

Not to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, but in that case, if the author's opinion is what counts the most then part of Fringe is dystopian per the producer's own words.

Well, I still have room to argue because I don't know that executive produce Fury actually knows what "dystopian" is supposed to mean.

I continue to hold to my opinion that "dystopian" is not meant to include the strictions that would reasonably result during a condition of externally applied social stress. The social effects of of Hurricane Katrina during the hurricane do not denote a dystopia. The civil defense rules that London society operated under during the Battle of Britain do not denote a dystopia.

We could have the same discussion regarding "Starship Troopers" that Keith99 mentioned earlier. The author of the novel certainly did not portray a dystopian future--his central point is that his future works better than the present of the time he wrote the story. But when that future was "re-imagined" in the excoriable movie version, it was seen as dystopian.

 

[TillICollapse]

Well, I still have room to argue because I don't know that executive produce Fury actually knows what "dystopian" is supposed to mean.

Yes moving the goalposts seems to create room for arguing

I continue to hold to my opinion that "dystopian" is not meant to include the strictions that would reasonably result during a condition of externally applied social stress. The social effects of of Hurricane Katrina during the hurricane do not denote a dystopia. The civil defense rules that London society operated under during the Battle of Britain do not denote a dystopia.

We could have the same discussion regarding "Starship Troopers" that Keith99 mentioned earlier. The author of the novel certainly did not portray a dystopian future--his central point is that his future works better than the present of the time he wrote the story. But when that future was "re-imagined" in the excoriable movie version, it was seen as dystopian.

I honestly don't have a dog in the fight as to what makes something dystopian or not, I was curious as to people's thoughts on Fringe and it's themes specifically ... and they gave them

 

[RDKirk]

Yes moving the goalposts seems to create room for arguing

No goalpost moving at all. It's directly what I was talking about in my very first post, post #3.

 

[TillICollapse]

No goalpost moving at all. It's directly what I was talking about in my very first post, post #3.

I said I didn't have a dog in the fight lol ... I'm not interested in defining what a Scotsman is, or what the goalposts should be for each person concerning what makes a story dystopian, rather I was interested in discussing Fringe with those who may have wanted to discuss it some, given the context of the thread

 

[RDKirk]

I said I didn't have a dog in the fight lol ... I'm not interested in defining what a Scotsman is, or what the goalposts should be for each person concerning what makes a story dystopian, rather I was interested in discussing Fringe with those who may have wanted to discuss it some, given the context of the thread

So do you think the Astrid character was underutilized?

 

[TillICollapse]

So do you think the Astrid character was underutilized?

Not really. She was a generic side kick type of character, albeit a hot one

IRL, the actress that played her (Jasika Nicole) is an excellent artist by the way ... worth checking out her work

I don't see how they could have built up her character too much, given her overall demeanor and roll with the team.

I think the two characters most underutilized were David Robert Jones and Broyles. Broyles started out with a "I know something you don't" edge that was wasted early on. They almost did that with Nina Sharp as well, although they later tried to make up for this but I felt it was forced with her character by that point. David Robert Jones was much too intelligent to simply end up being a gopher for Bell. That was wasted, as was his ability to be a controlling force in the show.