what Law did Jesus replace?

[cheesecakephan]

If you don't adhere to the five solas, you should not be posting on the non-denomintional forum.

("by Scripture alone"), ("by faith alone"), ("by grace alone"), ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone"), ("glory to God alone")

If you don't adhere to the five solas for this area of the forums you will be reported.

I guess I thought we were on the right subject too! And, I guess maybe I am not the non-denomination that belongs to this forum. I am non-denomination, but these rules actually imply that this forum is a denomination of non-denomination. It said it was for ALL non-denomination believers, but then tells me I must believe the same things. I don't understand that. I guess we have differences on what non-denomination means. I have no problem leaving this forum if I don't belong here.

 

[Light hearted]

cheesecakephan, STAY!!!!!!!! do not leave.

Your input is exactly on line, you give ALL credit to the work of Jesus and the power given to us through the Holy Spirit.

Stelow, yes this thread has gone on and on, it has made me dig deeper into the Bible, if all I do is read threads that agree with me, I don't have a reason to dig deeper and more focused on one topic.

Natalie, I approve of your sticking to every word in the Bible, yet I know on circumcision you and Ozell disagree on how it changed after the death of Jesus. You both have the same fortitude of following every word, yet you both split after Jesus death. If that is the only thing that changed after Jesus death, it doesn't put Jesus much over an animal then.

I have heard the statement of Grace being a ticket to sin over and over and over. It makes me sick, it is the most exagerated statement and must make Jesus weep everytime a true believer of whom is indwelled with the Holy Spirit make this accusasion. Before I was indwelled with the Holy Spirit I didn't want to kill, steal, lie and cheat, why now, with the Holy Spirit would I want to do it? I just don't get it. Why would the Spirit of God, cause me to sin worse than I ever wanted to before?

This statement makes me think I have to answer back since it may have been directed to me. In order for me to answer an accusal, In have to be accused. Now it is satan, not Jesus who does the accusing. Here's something to think about when one accuses, satan uses the "law" to accuse. So I ask, if one is accusing, using the "law" whose court are you standing in?

From the cheating tax man to the adultress, to the caught lady having sex, even to the non-Jews, who came to Jesus, he never accused, no one, he is the giver of life, not condemnation.

Next.....as for Ozell, think about it all of you, all that gave up on Ozell because his beliefs were not the same as yours, those of you who became impatient. His teachings I do not agree with, but as he has written many times, we just have differnt opinions. Big deal, he certainly isn't of any denomination.


Next... this is Ozell's post, if he wants to reply to what you all consider off the topic, it is his perogitive. One thing I do appreciate about Ozell is that he doen't jump on to other people's topic posts and derail them, I appreciate that in him.

Next... I believe Jesus sacrifice changed most every topic from Old Testsament to New Testsament, so as far as I'm concerned the topic of this post applies to most everything.

Next.... Make a comparison. Saul (Paul), versus Ozell. Saul was very detemined to KILL every Jesus believer, I said KILL. He held fast to every written word in the "Moses law", it was God breathed and God inspired and Saul was going to hold on to it for dear life.

I ask, how much different is Ozell's beliefs, still holds dear to the "law" every last word. His knowledge is exceptional. Only difference is Ozell has blended Jesus into the law.

Once Jesus came to Saul and put it to his face about the truth and the Holy Spirit came upon him, he changed 200 %. Total change, even a name change. After that he was the perfect tool to teach the New truth to the surrounding cities and beyond. God had a man of whom could answer any question on both sides of law and Grace, Jew's and gentiles.

As for Ozell and I, we don't agree on squat, but I believe we have a mutual respect for each others beliefs.

Difference in belief, simlply, I am a nothing with out Jesus, zip, nodda zilch, as I keep writing, it's Him not me. When God looks at me, he sees me through Jesus, Jesus is my viewing filter, before God sees me, Jesus has cleansed God's view of me, hense, I am made perfect in Christ.

Ozell puts mans works above Jesus work, man has to make himself perfect by following the laws. I really cannot condemn him, for it does say that he has the right to do so. If he choses to follow the law he has to do it perfectly, right down to every last word, this is his choice. I don't think the Bible says no body in the future won't fulfill the laws by himself, Ozell has the right to give it a shot then.

I on the other hand I will do what all Christians are supposed to do, PRAY, for Ozell. with all the knowledge that Ozell has, he would be the perfect modern day Paul. I know he has a different opinion of the workings of the Holy Spirit, but just as Jesus stopped Saul in his tracks, that doesn't mean Jesus can't change his heart.

 

[ozell]

I would like to end this discussion on LH last post.

thanks to all who participated in the topic.

peace in the mighty name of Jesus to all of you and the forum.



2Pt 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[NatalieJan777]

If you don't adhere to the five solas, you should not be posting on the non-denomintional forum.

("by Scripture alone"), ("by faith alone"), ("by grace alone"), ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone"), ("glory to God alone")

If you don't adhere to the five solas for this area of the forums you will be reported.

Oh but I do. There are others here who want to take away the scripture part of what GOD came to say through Christ Jesus.

How can all 5 be alone if we are to adhere to all 5 of them? Are they not all ONE, are they not all of GOD?

I haven't qouted anything not within scripture. I have faith and believe that by the Grace of GOD he offers repentance and forgiveness of sin. I believe that there is one and only one Son of GOD namely Christ Jesus and all glory will go to GOD in the end whether we wish to give it to HIM here and now or not.

I just do not see what your problem is.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Natalie, I approve of your sticking to every word in the Bible, yet I know on circumcision you and Ozell disagree on how it changed after the death of Jesus. You both have the same fortitude of following every word, yet you both split after Jesus death. If that is the only thing that changed after Jesus death, it doesn't put Jesus much over an animal then.

I have heard the statement of Grace being a ticket to sin over and over and over. It makes me sick, it is the most exagerated statement and must make Jesus weep everytime a true believer of whom is indwelled with the Holy Spirit make this accusasion. Before I was indwelled with the Holy Spirit I didn't want to kill, steal, lie and cheat, why now, with the Holy Spirit would I want to do it? I just don't get it. Why would the Spirit of God, cause me to sin worse than I ever wanted to before?

This statement makes me think I have to answer back since it may have been directed to me. In order for me to answer an accusal, In have to be accused. Now it is satan, not Jesus who does the accusing. Here's something to think about when one accuses, satan uses the "law" to accuse. So I ask, if one is accusing, using the "law" whose court are you standing in?

I am sure you differ with others even though you believe the same things as well. I am not legalistic about the laws, I do not go out of my way to point out anothers wrong, I accept them wether they believe what I've come to believe or not. I believe that all along the laws have always been spiritual, and must be accepted by faith now as they should have been accepted long ago.

Romans 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

I appologies if what I say makes you believe it is directed at you.

I know for certain that the Holy Spirit will not teach anything different than the Law.

Romans 1:28-32 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

This scripture has cut me deep on many occasions. But if it did not cut me deep I would never have grown not to do these things. The cutting is purposefull.

2 Corinthians 7:10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

I hear someone use the Lords name in vain and even to this day the Holy Spirit raises anger in me. Anger in which I have to learn to control. Because I know it is wrong to use HIS name in VAIN. But I do not go out of my way to bring that to the attention of another by pointing to scripture. I ussually just comment and ask "what does HE have to do with you dropping that pan on your toe?".

God's word convicts us of wrong, but if we refuse to look at it, how will we ever be convicted?

 

[NatalieJan777]

Listen carfully to what Jesus says here:

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.

Jesus does accuse, if you hear what HE is saying and it convicts your soul to turn from your way's to HIS WAY's then you will find salvation. HE is the WORD of GOD.

Please show me biblically where Satan accuses those who do not believe the Word of GOD? He only accuses those who do believe the Word of GOD, because HE wants to be GOD and be in control.

Matthew 21:32 "For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."

John the Baptist did not baptise with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Faith.Man]

I guess I thought we were on the right subject too! And, I guess maybe I am not the non-denomination that belongs to this forum. I am non-denomination, but these rules actually imply that this forum is a denomination of non-denomination. It said it was for ALL non-denomination believers, but then tells me I must believe the same things. I don't understand that. I guess we have differences on what non-denomination means. I have no problem leaving this forum if I don't belong here.

I do not have a denomination, so I am non-denominational. I believe in the five sola's so I have the right to post here. I hope this forum does not become so exclusionary that believer's like yourself are prevented from giving your viewpoint. I haven't been following this thread so I have no idea if I would agree with you are not. But I would certainly defend your right to post here. I hope they let you stay and contribute.

God Bless.

 

[arieliog]

And yet,

1 Cor 3
13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Even seeing Moses radiant face their minds remained blinded.

Please explain to me what this has to do with one keeping The Lord's Sabbath. Can you please refer me to the scrips that state this?
arieliog

 

[arieliog]

cheesecakephan, STAY!!!!!!!! do not leave.

Your input is exactly on line, you give ALL credit to the work of Jesus and the power given to us through the Holy Spirit.

Stelow, yes this thread has gone on and on, it has made me dig deeper into the Bible, if all I do is read threads that agree with me, I don't have a reason to dig deeper and more focused on one topic.

Natalie, I approve of your sticking to every word in the Bible, yet I know on circumcision you and Ozell disagree on how it changed after the death of Jesus. You both have the same fortitude of following every word, yet you both split after Jesus death. If that is the only thing that changed after Jesus death, it doesn't put Jesus much over an animal then.

I have heard the statement of Grace being a ticket to sin over and over and over. It makes me sick, it is the most exagerated statement and must make Jesus weep everytime a true believer of whom is indwelled with the Holy Spirit make this accusasion. Before I was indwelled with the Holy Spirit I didn't want to kill, steal, lie and cheat, why now, with the Holy Spirit would I want to do it? I just don't get it. Why would the Spirit of God, cause me to sin worse than I ever wanted to before?

This statement makes me think I have to answer back since it may have been directed to me. In order for me to answer an accusal, In have to be accused. Now it is satan, not Jesus who does the accusing. Here's something to think about when one accuses, satan uses the "law" to accuse. So I ask, if one is accusing, using the "law" whose court are you standing in?

From the cheating tax man to the adultress, to the caught lady having sex, even to the non-Jews, who came to Jesus, he never accused, no one, he is the giver of life, not condemnation.

Next.....as for Ozell, think about it all of you, all that gave up on Ozell because his beliefs were not the same as yours, those of you who became impatient. His teachings I do not agree with, but as he has written many times, we just have differnt opinions. Big deal, he certainly isn't of any denomination.


Next... this is Ozell's post, if he wants to reply to what you all consider off the topic, it is his perogitive. One thing I do appreciate about Ozell is that he doen't jump on to other people's topic posts and derail them, I appreciate that in him.

Next... I believe Jesus sacrifice changed most every topic from Old Testsament to New Testsament, so as far as I'm concerned the topic of this post applies to most everything.

Next.... Make a comparison. Saul (Paul), versus Ozell. Saul was very detemined to KILL every Jesus believer, I said KILL. He held fast to every written word in the "Moses law", it was God breathed and God inspired and Saul was going to hold on to it for dear life.

I ask, how much different is Ozell's beliefs, still holds dear to the "law" every last word. His knowledge is exceptional. Only difference is Ozell has blended Jesus into the law.

Once Jesus came to Saul and put it to his face about the truth and the Holy Spirit came upon him, he changed 200 %. Total change, even a name change. After that he was the perfect tool to teach the New truth to the surrounding cities and beyond. God had a man of whom could answer any question on both sides of law and Grace, Jew's and gentiles.

As for Ozell and I, we don't agree on squat, but I believe we have a mutual respect for each others beliefs.

Difference in belief, simlply, I am a nothing with out Jesus, zip, nodda zilch, as I keep writing, it's Him not me. When God looks at me, he sees me through Jesus, Jesus is my viewing filter, before God sees me, Jesus has cleansed God's view of me, hense, I am made perfect in Christ.

Ozell puts mans works above Jesus work, man has to make himself perfect by following the laws. I really cannot condemn him, for it does say that he has the right to do so. If he choses to follow the law he has to do it perfectly, right down to every last word, this is his choice. I don't think the Bible says no body in the future won't fulfill the laws by himself, Ozell has the right to give it a shot then.

I on the other hand I will do what all Christians are supposed to do, PRAY, for Ozell. with all the knowledge that Ozell has, he would be the perfect modern day Paul. I know he has a different opinion of the workings of the Holy Spirit, but just as Jesus stopped Saul in his tracks, that doesn't mean Jesus can't change his heart.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:17-18. This is out of the mouth of Jesus. So how can you separate one from the other? You simply can't!!

 

[arieliog]

I could have also include the 19th verse of the 5th chapter of Matthew which says:
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandment s, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Your argument seems not to be with Ozell but more so with God. We simply do not serve a God that is going to give us guidelines to follow for salvation, only to have the goal unattainable and the guidelines too difficult to follow. What's so difficult in "Thou shalt not kill?"

 

[Light hearted]

Listen carfully to what Jesus says here:

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.

Jesus does accuse, if you hear what HE is saying and it convicts your soul to turn from your way's to HIS WAY's then you will find salvation. HE is the WORD of GOD.

Please show me biblically where Satan accuses those who do not believe the Word of GOD? He only accuses those who do believe the Word of GOD, because HE wants to be GOD and be in control.

First go to a Bible site and use the keyword search. You'll find 9-11 hits of the word accuse, 7-9 times it is the pharacees "accusing" Jesus of not following the law.

Now I ask, if Jesus is in you and you in Him, is this not comparable to when you use the law to accuse someone on the board? You are now playing the part of the pharacees.

I will turn the page and use the word "convict". This is the term that Jesus uses for the nudging from the Holy Spirit. God will write his laws on my heart, when I break the law, the Holy Spirit will convict me so I may repent from the action. He is also my witness, to the fact that Jesus died for my sins and through Jesus I can walk right with God.

Here is the verse.7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the (L)Helper will not come to you; but if I go, (M)I will send Him to you.

8"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9concerning sin, (N)because they do not believe in Me;
10and concerning (O)righteousness, because (P)I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11(Q)and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

we the believer fall into verse 10... he will convict me of my sin, and remind me of who I am in Christ.

Yes, you are correct satan does not accuse non-believers, they are already his. He does accuse the believers, he wants to drain the believer, everytime a believer sins, satan is right there to show the faults of the believer.

Question....where does satan get his accusations from? the "law"

Remember some time back I posted a chapter in explanation of how the law was Holy, yet sin crept in between the lines and twisted the interpretation of the law.

Simply look at the keyword verses you find under "accuse" most of the accusings are an example of how the law was twisted from it's original intent.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Brother, This is what I know for fact. We grow in the spirit, we are not endwelled with perfection as soon as we come to Christ Jesus.

John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.

I am not done. I see GRACE definately as being given without works. However, I see a stumbling block to those who come to know Christ Jesus by Grace and then continue to do those things that displease GOD, never fully growing in the Truth. Because they've been told what you do with the rest of your life is of no importance.

I am more concerned about those who accept HIS GRACE but never turn to HIM with Love and a will to HONOR HIM.

We cannot have just GRACE, if this were GOD's plan, then everyone on this planet would be part of the age to come. For that would be the just thing, if it were Grace alone at work.

Satan is a part of this discussion because HE wants to be and I am not the one bringing him here. I am not the one accusing my brother/sister. Although I could use it, if I were willing to, I will not.

Jude 1:9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Because I reside in Christ Jesus I will continue to use the words "The Lord rebuke you!", anything more than this is unlawful, uncaring, unloving, unkind, ungodly.

Many of us hurt deeply for Chirst Jesus, because it appears to us that HE is only being used to gain access. I do not believe these feelings of hurt come from Satan, but from GOD. It is lawful, caring, loving, kind, and godly.

Perhaps both ends of this argument "legalism vs antinomianism" can find a happy medium somewhere in between? Because this I believe is where Christ is.

 

[Light hearted]

Brother, This is what I know for fact. We grow in the spirit, we are not endwelled with perfection as soon as we come to Christ Jesus.

John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.

I am not done. I see GRACE definately as being given without works. However, I see a stumbling block to those who come to know Christ Jesus by Grace and then continue to do those things that displease GOD, never fully growing in the Truth. Because they've been told what you do with the rest of your life is of no importance.

I am more concerned about those who accept HIS GRACE but never turn to HIM with Love and a will to HONOR HIM.

We cannot have just GRACE, if this were GOD's plan, then everyone on this planet would be part of the age to come. For that would be the just thing, if it were Grace alone at work.

Satan is a part of this discussion because HE wants to be and I am not the one bringing him here. I am not the one accusing my brother/sister. Although I could use it, if I were willing to, I will not.

Jude 1:9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Because I reside in Christ Jesus I will continue to use the words "The Lord rebuke you!", anything more than this is unlawful, uncaring, unloving, unkind, ungodly.

Many of us hurt deeply for Chirst Jesus, because it appears to us that HE is only being used to gain access. I do not believe these feelings of hurt come from Satan, but from GOD. It is lawful, caring, loving, kind, and godly.

Perhaps both ends of this argument "legalism vs antinomianism" can find a happy medium somewhere in between? Because this I believe is where Christ is.

Hi Natalie, I had to look up the definition of antinomianism...1 : one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation.

I don't remember saying Grace is a free ticket to sin, as a matter of fact I remember saying just the opposite.

I've just heard the exagerated statement of now one can go kill, murder, steal, ect. My point was that why would I crave to do so more now with the Holy Spirit than when I didn't have the Holy Spirit.

Yes, we do grow in the Spirit, it guides us, some just have more "imperfection" in thier lives when the are Born Again.

In short, we pretty well agree on most beliefs. Here is what I do find in new Born again believers. Here is why I speak up when I hear people saying we are to be perfect after being Born again.

True story.. about 2 months ago a new member accepted Jesus as his savior, it was a calling from God, and he answered. He felt the weight of the world lifted from his shoulders, joy was all over his face. Two weeks ago he got water Baptized, within 1 week he took a blood test and was on the verge of loosing his job, do to lead content, his job has to do with working with flame cutting metals. At the same time some of the seeds he sowed in the past caught up with him, just more stuff he had to deal with.

He called me a couple times, he was overwelmed. He feared he hasn't worthy of God since all this has come upon him, maybe he wasn't "perfect" as he should be. Hmm, here we go dealing with the weight of perfection. How the heck do we know when we are perfect enough, what a burdon to the new believer.

Back to the story, I reminded him that God chose the Isrealites, God chose him. God put the Isrealites between the Sea and the Egyptian army, and performed a miracle. God saved him and brought him joy he never felt before, a miracle in itself.

After the parting of the Sea the Isrealites still lacked faith, they found Gods Justice of wandering in the desert. I told him that now that God has done him a miracle, stand firm in Faith, do not doubt, here's the biggy...do not let satan tell you that you are not worthy, he wants you back.

Natalie, this man did not focus on his non-perfection, he focused on the miracle God had done, and stood firm in faith. I picked him up at home for church Sunday, you couldn't rip the smile of his face if you tried. He made it through the second blood test, the company bought him his personal fresh air system, all is better than it was. The loss of his job multiplied as the past caught up with him. Now that the job is secured, his past problems are no longer an issue.

Point is, yes we will grow in the spirit. Some of us come to know Jesus when we have a ton of garbage in the trunk, some come to Jesus with just a handfull of junk. When the trunkful compares themselfs with the handfuls, and the handfuls find closness to perfection way sooner than the trunkfuls, it is very discouraging to the trunkfuls.

Who benefits more, the one with the trunkfull or the one with the handfull, the trunkfull does, who do we need to encourage more, the trunkfull.

 

[ozell]

Sister Natalie and Brother LH

I want to close this thread with all due respect to you both.

thanks for your participation and support when needed.

peace to you both in the name of Jesus

 

[nephilimiyr]

Closing thread by request of the OP.