what Law did Jesus replace?

[SoundCard]

I personally take offence to this statement. Doing the will of GOD does not make anyone fall from HIS grace. I am here to testify to you that you can please GOD by doing HIS will and still be under the grace of the blood of the new covenant by Faith in Christ Jesus.

This is an obsurd accusation. All of GOD's commandments and laws are righteous and good, doing them does not lessen Christ's righteousness. GOD loved Jesus and was well pleased with HIM because HE fullfilled it all. The HOLY SPIRIT will lead you to this same righteousness if you yeild to it, will you then be perfect as Jesus was? Would you then be Jesus? NO! but you are still a child of GOD by doing HIS will and believing that HE sent HIS son to attone for the sins of all the world.

This is like saying I am not satans child even though I do all the evil he does. It is obsurd.

My apologies if I offended. I'm not saying you're not saved any longer, but I was referencing scripture with that. To fall from grace is not to lose salvation, that can never be taken away, and I do not wish to imply that, but what God commands of you now isn't to follow the laws of Moses, He's calling you to live by His spirit.

Galatians 5:4-5 NIV
4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.

The thing is, you can't be both under the old and new covenants, you have to choose one or the other. The new one is what brings us to eternal life, the old is what condemns us.

I think I'm beginning to understand something myself I must admit. Jesus didn't replace the laws here, so that was an invalid question to begin with, it is as He says plainly in Matthew 5. He came to fulfill it, and so He did, which is why when we join in His life, and His death, through faith, we're counted as righteous. Christ did the job for us, it's why we believe in the one who the Father sent.

So what I'm going to say next will please you and confuse you at the same time. Yes, He DID fulfill the sacrificial laws. BUT! That wasn't all! He also fulfilled the ENTIRETY of the Mosaic laws. And in doing so, He gave to us a command which surmised it all. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

In the law we do find wisdom. That is true. But! We cannot follow it. We are still carrying that sinful nature in us, and to live by it is to condemn ourselves, which is why it is to fall from grace, because the law can only condemn and make us lawbreakers, where the New Covenant has forgiveness and remission of sins because Christ's sacrifice was once and for all. Past, present, and future sins.

Don't say it only covered the past sins, otherwise, up until the moment of His death would only be covered, anyone who sinned afterwards would be doomed. So, when it says once, for all, it means ONE sacrifice, offered ONCE, for all TIME. We are secured eternally by the blood that was shed, and then justified in His resurrection.

The entire point in all of this is, I'm not trying to hurt anyone or mislead, but rather, I think it cuts down the freedom we've been offered in Christ to go back to the old way of things, especially when the New Covenant contains such great promises from the Lord. I'm not saying if you try and obey the law you'll not be saved, I believe that's impossible. Once saved, always saved is the doctrine I believe in, because I believe His work is that complete. However, as Paul tells us, we should make ourselves to be imitators of the Holy One, that is Christ, that we might share in the righteousness He's poured out to us.

 

[ozell]

Jesus read from Moses

Jn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

and if you don't have both there is no truth in ya! think about this

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Now you wanna do New Testament Let's Go

Jn 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

do you understand this? maybe not?

47: But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

by you all responses here you don't believe Moses writings, that can ONLY mean you don't believe Jesus

 

[ozell]

Peace and blessings brothers and sisters,

Excellent take Ozell!
There are to many people who are headed down the broader path of destruction. Many believe in this blanket of grace. That the commandments no longer apply. Like you have been stating, we must continue to keep His commandments, but instead of sacrificing to the ALmighty at temple, for remission, we are to simply ask for forgiveness in Jesus name.
We must still ask for forgiveness for each infraction thereof, and all will be judged according to his deeds verses his unabsolved sin by ALmighty's perfect scales.

Sons and daughters bless the Lord,
Praise and exalt Him above all forever!

No!!! you just gave an excellent take.

why do we ask for forgiveness?
why do we pray?

most time ours infraction are against the neighbour we are commanded to love.

what if we don't ask for forgiveness when we have committed a infraction against our neighbour?

we are still in our sins.

so long after Jesus death and resurrection the NEW COVENANT that everyone don't understand, John wrote

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

How do we approach this advocate Jesus?

why are we still sinning after he has died for our sins?

 

[SoundCard]

Jesus read from Moses

Jn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

and if you don't have both there is no truth in ya! think about this

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Now you wanna do New Testament Let's Go

Jn 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

do you understand this? maybe not?

47: But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

by you all responses here you don't believe Moses writings, that can ONLY mean you don't believe Jesus

My my... you REALLY need to weigh your responses carefully. It's one thing to claim my doctrine or theology is faulty, but to call a saved individual an unbeliever is quite... dangerous. I don't say this to shame you, but to warn you, don't judge your brother harshly less the same be done to you after all.

The thing is, I'm not saying Moses was wrong in what he said here, not once did I say that, and as it says in scripture itself, the law only lead us to Christ. It never says it leads us to Christ, then Christ leads us back to it. Moses was a very blessed individual to be so favored by God. That's not the issue here, nor is it even the point of discussion, so really... I don't know what you're trying to do other than damage my credibility here, which is understandable in a way, it is a very involved argument after all so I can't say I blame you for it, but I just warn you, be careful in the accusations you bring against others, the Lord is our judge after all, and He bears witness to what we say. If I am incorrect here, I shall be corrected. I do believe that indeed.

1 Timothy 1:3-11 NIV
3As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by faith. 5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. 8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law[a] is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.


A warning for those who wish to be teachers of the law, and another example of how we are flat out told the law is no longer for us, or I should say, the old covenant is no longer for us, as we are indeed caught up in law still, but the law we are in is not of letter, but of Spirit, that is from God.

Romans 8:1-4 NIV
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[d] 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

 

[SoundCard]

No!!! you just gave an excellent take.

why do we ask for forgiveness?
why do we pray?

most time ours infraction are against the neighbour we are commanded to love.

what if we don't ask for forgiveness when we have committed a infraction against our neighbour?

we are still in our sins.

so long after Jesus death and resurrection the NEW COVENANT that everyone don't understand, John wrote

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

How do we approach this advocate Jesus?

why are we still sinning after he has died for our sins?

The answer too is in 1 John.

1 John 1:9
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

At any rate, it's late, and I need sleep. G'night!

 

[ozell]

Truth be told, I'm still learning this. I had a few roadblocks in my way before I could start seeing the truth, I admit I was blinded by past hurt and was reluctant to let it go, but praise be to our Lord Jesus He opened my eyes to it and I'm now moving past them.

we are all STILL learning, the day you stop learning about God is the day you died Physically and spiritually!!

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 NIV
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Paul gives us an understanding of the nature of love. Just so, he also gives us an understanding of the nature of sin.

Now go back and read the last 6 commandments and understand how they apply to your neigbour(fellow man)

Colossians 3:5-10 NIV
5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[b] 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Before Jesus came what was man to do to be forgiven of these acts?

After Jesus came what are we to do to be forgiven of these acts?

if we continue in these acts after we received knowledge that there wrong what happens next?

Just for the record here, I don't think anyone here is trying to justify sin. I know I'm not. It's an evil, evil wretched thing.

speaking without understanding is wrong? this is whats happening here, and not just here but in all forums, I have the same debate witht he same verse and the same replies.

Though, this sets an interesting conundrum. We're flat out told something about the blood of bulls and such. It's ironic, that the answer lies in Hebrews 10 as well.

Hebrews 10:1-4 NIV
1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

The blood spilled by them covered the sins, but it did not take them away, only one could do that, and that is Christ.

The problem SC is that the pastors have NOT told the people about this.
Jesus replaced the law of sacrifice, they hae not taught that before Jesus came, animal sacrifice was the method of forgiveness.

the shruch lesson emphasize grace which is correct but the book is more than just grace, it has a lot other subject to learn also.

Grace did not start in Matthew or with the death and rising of Jesus, it started when Jesus started which has no start so grace has always been here.

This is going to be difficult for you to understand, because as to now you have yet to realize this. So let me tell you plainly.

Jesus Christ Himself is our fulfillment of the law, because, we join not ONLY in His death, we also join with Him in His life!

SC what did Jesus fufill?

all's not fulfilled, Jesus is returning correct? so don't this mean that he has more to do?

He spent some 33 odd years doing what exactly? LIVING SINLESSLY under that which condemns sin! That's the good news here! All the requirements that we could never meet, all the laws we could not fulfill, all the statutes that required obedience, HE could obey! HE alone could do this! It's why HE is our rock and our salvation! In HIM is the fulfillment of it, because HE alone could live it! We who are sinners are condemned by that which condemns sin, and what condemns sin? The law and the commandments!!

why would Jesus give you something you can't keep or meet?
is that fair? Did Jesus keep the law being in the same flesh and body we have. are you telling me that you have to steal, you have to murder, you cheat on your wife, and you dishonour your parents, are you saying that you worship idols, and worship more God's than Jesus?

think about these questions before you say something foolish Brother.
so what is hard about not lying, stealing, killing, committing adultery.

Nothing!!!

Matthew 5:17-20 NIV

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The only one who could do the works of the law and still be considered righteous was He who was, is, and will be righteousness itself, the living God, Jesus Christ!

and he gave you many examples to walk like him

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

lets head to the NT

Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2Cor 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

How can we be perfect with God in this flesh?

However, yes, we should obey His commands, but you must understand, I really, really must emphasize, the commands of the NEW COVENANT. They contain the law and the prophets in the commands to love your neighbor, to love God more than anything else in your life. Every action in your life will stem forth from that.

tell me what the new covenant is in your response?

The point of this whole debate, I think I finally understand is... if one goes back to the old covenant to 'save them', they're saying that love is not enough for them, when God Himself is described as BEING love.

tell what the Old covenant is in your next reply.

SC

Jesus said Love is

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

how do we love Jesus?

what is love according to Jesus/

where do we first find this way of Loving?
in the OT!!!

 

[ozell]

WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW

Paul makes the statement that we are not under the law but under grace in Romans (6:14) however to get an understanding of what law he meant we are no longer under one needs to familiarize himself with the definition of sin. The biblical definition of sin is that sin is the transgression of the law. That definition is found in the following verse.
I John (3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Why this definition is so important in understanding that Paul was not referring to the Mosaic Laws is because it sets up the fact that sin cannot exist without having an established law. In order words an individual can not break the law or sin unless there is a law in place to be broken. Paul even sights this fact in the following verse.

Romans (4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

So to take the statement that we are no longer under the law and apply that to the Mosaic Laws would mean that man is no longer capable of committing a sin when it comes to the commandments of God since the commandments of God are contained in the Mosaic Laws. Now everyone should realize that this is simply not the case.

Man since the time of Adam has sinned and continues to sin. So based on the definition of sin itself there has to be laws in place that man are held accountable to. And if an individual believes that he or she is no longer under the Mosaic Laws which are the commandments of God they need to ask themselves what and whose laws are they following?

 

[Light hearted]

ozell, Your doing exactly the opposite of the purpose of Jesus Christ.

I don't believe Jesus came to remove the action of sin, it is a natural born part of us, done deal, sinners to the end.

Pre-Moses you will find no law of penalty for sins against those with "faith".

Moses came along and now we have "law". There is now a written penalty quide for God to penalize sinful man. Jesus came and paid all the penalties in the "law". It's not that the "law" doesn't exist any more, it's just been paid for.

The "law" continuously reminded people of their short comings of the Glory of God. Failure,failure, failure, was all the "law" told them. But there was no redemption in the "law".

Now Jesus comes along, yup, we still need the "law" and commandments that inform us of our short comings, but, now instead of caring the heavy burden of failure, failure, failure, we carry redemption, redemption, redemption the work of Jesus.

Jesus, the spilled blood that saved a wretch like me so I may go out into the world with happiness and joy instead of the feeling of a failure.

See, it's not that Jesus came to stop sin, he came to remove the quilt of sin on our conscience. Once the quilt is removed, the sin is easier to conquer.

You don't tell a person on a diet that they are still fat. You don't keep reminding someone who is trying to become right before the Lord of their sinful nature. Both are very defeating.

Yes, Jesus has always been in existance, but it wasn't til the NT that his spirit acually dwells within us, the true believer. Jesus was the sacrifice. Jesus is the spirit.

You want to sacrice an animal, perhaps a Cow, do you now want the Cow spirit within you? How can the spirit of a Cow change you from the inside out like the Spirit of Christ?

It's Amen, not Amooo.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

The answer too is in 1 John.

1 John 1:9
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

At any rate, it's late, and I need sleep. G'night!

Peace be with you brother,

I hope your sleep was filled with beautiful visions of ALmighty's perfect creations and Jesus' undying love.

As for you post, what if there is no confession?
what if we reoffend without absolution?
IMO we will be judged.
But if we make a confession to ALmighty our sins, through His Son, our Saviour, we are made clean by the blood through grace, and made righteous once again.

Praise and exalt Him above all forever!

 

[NatalieJan777]

Jeremiah 23: Portions, read your bibles to discover all this that GOD through the Prophet Jeremiah is saying. The adultery spoken of is those who do not cling to their GOD by faithfulness and obedieance to HIM and HIS WORDS.

9 Concerning the prophets:.... 11 'Both prophets and priest are godless; even in my temple I find their wickedness' 14 And among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen something horrible: They commit adultery and live a lie. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from their wickedness..... 16 This is what the Lord Almighty says: 'Do not listen to what the profits are propheseying to you: They fill you will false hopes.... 19 But which of them has stood in the council of the Lord to see or hear HIS WORD? Who has listened and heard HIS WORD? ...22 But if they had stood in my council, they would have proclaimed my words to my people and would have turned them from their evil ways and from their evil deeds... 32 "They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send them. They do not benifit these people in the least.' declares the Lord.

If you think the false prophets today will suffer any different then the ones Jeremiah is speaking of here, you are mistaken. GOD will never change his righteous commandments and laws no matter how much you wish he would to save those who continue in sin against HIM.

 

[NatalieJan777]

In the law we do find wisdom. That is true. But! We cannot follow it. We are still carrying that sinful nature in us, and to live by it is to condemn ourselves, which is why it is to fall from grace, because the law can only condemn and make us lawbreakers, where the New Covenant has forgiveness and remission of sins because Christ's sacrifice was once and for all. Past, present, and future sins.

This is where we differ. The law does not condemn if it is obeyed. If I do not steal I am keeping the law. If I steal not knowing the law and then realize I have sinned and repent from that sin asking GOD to forgive, HE will. But by the endwelling Spirit if I know that stealing is sin, and then I go and steal even though I know it is sin, there is not forgiveness left for I have gone against the will of GOD. The new covenant forgives sins past, you cannot continue in sin because the Spirit will reveal to you it is sin and move you to repentance and to seek GOD's forgiveness. To ignore the SPIRIT will lead to spiritual death.

 

[NatalieJan777]

'where the New Covenant has forgiveness and remission of sins because Christ's sacrifice was once and for all. Past, present, and future sins'

I am sorry I wanted to address this as well and forgot. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, even those who do not accept HIM and learn from HIM to repent so that HE can heal. Once for all means all sin. We all will have to answer for whether we listenened to HIM and learned from HIM or not because we all will bow before HIM to confess of how we served HIM on this earth.

 

[SoundCard]

This is where we differ. The law does not condemn if it is obeyed. If I do not steal I am keeping the law. If I steal not knowing the law and then realize I have sinned and repent from that sin asking GOD to forgive, HE will. But by the endwelling Spirit if I know that stealing is sin, and then I go and steal even though I know it is sin, there is not forgiveness left for I have gone against the will of GOD. The new covenant forgives sins past, you cannot continue in sin because the Spirit will reveal to you it is sin and move you to repentance and to seek GOD's forgiveness. To ignore the SPIRIT will lead to spiritual death.

There is CONTINUAL forgiveness in the New Covenant, are you honestly telling me you have not sinned since becoming a Christian? We ALL sin. It is INEVITABLE because our sin nature is STILL inside us even as we are a new creation. It's why we can continually SEEK forgiveness, though again, I'm not saying it's license to sin here. You need to stop making that assumption here and now, I know Jesus Christ didn't die for me so I could go out and 'sin it up' as it were, I know very well a heavy price was paid for that forgiveness, but in the event someone does stumble and fall and sin, there is still forgiveness, there is still repentance.

Salvation is irrevocable, those who have turned to Christ are with Him eternally, He will not lose one of His sheep. That work is completed the moment we believe in the Son as ONLY by faith can we accept Him. There is no work, no doing of our hands, or hearts, that can save us, because we are sinners, so our only saving grace is the grace by which He offered us salvation in the first place.

If someone yields to temptation and sins deliberately, God isn't going to disown them if they repent of their wrongdoing. If someone starts sinning again and DOESN'T repent, then their relationship with God whithers and they get cut off from the blessings and benefits that obedience brings, but God's salvation will still stand.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 NIV
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.


And salvation is offered to everyone, and though Christ died for the sins of the whole world, there are those who reject Him. Those who reject Him will not be saved, because they have treated God's gift as something contemptible, and His wrath remains on them.

 

[ozell]

SoundCard;53584715]My my... you REALLY need to weigh your responses carefully. It's one thing to claim my doctrine or theology is faulty, but to call a saved individual an unbeliever is quite... dangerous. I don't say this to shame you, but to warn you, don't judge your brother harshly less the same be done to you after all.

How am I judging you or anyone SC?

The thing is, I'm not saying Moses was wrong in what he said here, not once did I say that, and as it says in scripture itself, the law only lead us to Christ. It never says it leads us to Christ, then Christ leads us back to it. Moses was a very blessed individual to be so favored by God. That's not the issue here, nor is it even the point of discussion, so really... I don't know what you're trying to do other than damage my credibility here, which is understandable in a way, it is a very involved argument after all so I can't say I blame you for it, but I just warn you, be careful in the accusations you bring against others, the Lord is our judge after all, and He bears witness to what we say. If I am incorrect here, I shall be corrected. I do believe that indeed.

SC

don't make this personal, don't take it personal

as you warn me my post warns you and others of the doctrines that out there.

if you cannot discuss the word of God without getting emotional on me then don't respond.

I will not deal with a emotional person.

if you want to talk about being saved, who is saved, lets talk.

1 Timothy 1:3-11 NIV
3As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by faith. 5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. 8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law[a] is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.


A warning for those who wish to be teachers of the law, and another example of how we are flat out told the law is no longer for us, or I should say, the old covenant is no longer for us, as we are indeed caught up in law still, but the law we are in is not of letter, but of Spirit, that is from God.

what Law SC?

their are many laws from God

which one do Paul speak of?

Romans 8:1-4 NIV
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[d] 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

what Law is the laws of sin and death?

Hint is is not the commandments
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

 

[ozell]

;53584883]ozell, Your doing exactly the opposite of the purpose of Jesus Christ.

according to who?

I don't believe Jesus came to remove the action of sin, it is a natural born part of us, done deal, sinners to the end.

how is sin a natural part of us when God created everything GOOD?


Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Pre-Moses you will find no law of penalty for sins against those with "faith".

those with faith did they die? why?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

so the penalty of sin is death.

who is the Father of Faith? Abraham. did he die? yes!!!

Moses came along and now we have "law". There is now a written penalty quide for God to penalize sinful man. Jesus came and paid all the penalties in the "law". It's not that the "law" doesn't exist any more, it's just been paid for.

what Law?

The "law" continuously reminded people of their short comings of the Glory of God. Failure,failure, failure, was all the "law" told them. But there was no redemption in the "law".

what Law reminded them of their short comings?

Now Jesus comes along, yup, we still need the "law" and commandments that inform us of our short comings, but, now instead of caring the heavy burden of failure, failure, failure, we carry redemption, redemption, redemption the work of Jesus.

where do you read that the commandments are a short coming?

Jesus, the spilled blood that saved a wretch like me so I may go out into the world with happiness and joy instead of the feeling of a failure.

before Jesus came what blood was shed for wretches prior to Jesus blood?

See, it's not that Jesus came to stop sin, he came to remove the quilt of sin on our conscience. Once the quilt is removed, the sin is easier to conquer.

you are confused here, you said remove the quilt of sin, then you say sin is easier to conquer, if sin is removed there is no sin to conquer.

what am I missing in this statement of confusion here?

You don't tell a person on a diet that they are still fat. You don't keep reminding someone who is trying to become right before the Lord of their sinful nature. Both are very defeating.

so you don't warn the people of danger, you ignore or lie?

are you a watchman for the Lord? did not the prophets and the Apostles warn the people of God also?

Yes, Jesus has always been in existance, but it wasn't til the NT that his spirit acually dwells within us, the true believer. Jesus was the sacrifice. Jesus is the spirit.

you are saying Jesus was not around with Adam, Abraham, David, Job.

who is this?
Ex 29:45 And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.

You want to sacrice an animal, perhaps a Cow, do you now want the Cow spirit within you? How can the spirit of a Cow change you from the inside out like the Spirit of Christ? It's Amen, not Amooo.

who said anything about sacrificing a cow, this lesson or discussion is way above your understanding.

Go back and read the topic and answer the question.

answer the topic question.

 

[ozell]

Paul said

Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

yet some here cannot understand the magntude of the OT

if you are a gentiles your forefather were taught from the OT by Paul

Now what law did Jesus replace?

if you cannot figure out the answer God back to Moses and the Prophets!!

 

[SoundCard]

Paul said

Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

yet some here cannot understand the magntude of the OT

if you are a gentiles your forefather were taught from the OT by Paul

Now what law did Jesus replace?

if you cannot figure out the answer God back to Moses and the Prophets!!

The only thing that says is, they were convincing people Jesus Christ was the Messiah based upon the prophecies concerning His coming in the OT.

How am I judging you or anyone SC?

By what you say here.

by you all responses here you don't believe Moses writings, that can ONLY mean you don't believe Jesus

THAT is what I'm talking about, and I do take offense to that.

 

[AnotherNobody]

Why are we arguing whether or not Jesus came to replace any form of law when Jesus, HIMSELF, says He did not. Rather that He came to fulfill....does it really matter who is right? Thought this was to be discussed not debated to the point where it became a my horse is bigger than your horse run...

 

[nChrist]

Why are we arguing whether or not Jesus came to replace any form of law when Jesus, HIMSELF, says He did not. Rather that He came to fulfill....does it really matter who is right? Thought this was to be discussed not debated to the point where it became a my horse is bigger than your horse run...

What we have is a couple of folks trying to push the Law of Moses and self-righteously attempt to condemn Brothers and Sisters in Christ - much like the Pharisees attempted to do with Jesus Christ Himself.

We are not under the Law, rather Grace. This is a very important issue because we're talking about Salvation. No man was ever Saved by the Law or obedience of the Law. Some are pushing a false Gospel that men are saved by good works and obedience of the law. This is simply not true now, nor was it ever true. Salvation was always by God's Grace and Faith in Him.

These same folks are treating Christians like the Pharisees treated Jesus Christ - with legalistic, self-righteous condemnation. This would be in several threads. The Pharisees didn't know Jesus Christ, and neither did they have any comprehension about what Jesus Christ would do at the Cross. Those who go about trying to establish their own righteousness will never do it, and they FAIL to yield to the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

YES, Jesus Christ and the Cross are much bigger, greater, and more precious than the law of Moses. There is no comparison. What Jesus Christ did at the Cross and what it meant was a mystery to the 12 Apostles and followers of Jesus Christ during His Earthly Ministry. This mystery wasn't revealed until Jesus Christ Himself revealed it to the Apostle Paul. Paul then taught the 12 Apostles and many others the Mystery of Jesus Christ, the Cross, and the Church not made with human hands - the Church which is the Body of Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 8:1-2 (KJV) 1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV) 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:19-21 (KJV) 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 4:4-7 (KJV) 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Galatians 4:21-31 (KJV) 21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

I'm free and belong to Jesus Christ. I give thanks for that every day. I walk in the Spirit, and I'm not under the law.

Romans 10:4-13 For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down 7 or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (That is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach: 9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: 10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be put to shame. 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: 13 for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Titus 3:4-11 (KJV) 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 [This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Good News! -- The Holy Bible is the WORD OF GOD! -- God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit - The Creator Of All Things! -- "GOD'S GRACE" and "OUR WORKS" -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1623 to 1863 ) -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1961 to 2001 ) -- JESUS CHRIST - VERY GOD - LORD - SAVIOUR - MESSIAH - KING

 

[stelow]

AnotherNobody, welcome to CF.

ozell has this very same thread going on another Christian forum's sight besides this one. Here's the link, I think by knowing this, it gives some insight into the motivation behind it.

what Law did Jesus replace?