What kind of message is The Message?

[Tenebrae]

God has favorites? That is more evidence against this abomination called "the message"

NASB
Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with God.

In other words, God doesnt play favourites. (Romans 2:11MJBV)

Ok, so now I'm being a smart alec. Seriously there are bits of the message I cant stand, its like reading a particularly long book and wishing the author would stop the inane babble and get to the point

Other times it really speaks to me, and I wanna go read more in a real bible

Isaiah 1: 13-17
"Quit your worship charades.
I can't stand your trivial religious games:
Monthly conferences, weekly Sabbaths, special meetings—
meetings, meetings, meetings—I can't stand one more!
Meetings for this, meetings for that. I hate them!
You've worn me out!
I'm sick of your religion, religion, religion,
while you go right on sinning.
When you put on your next prayer-performance,
I'll be looking the other way.
No matter how long or loud or often you pray,
I'll not be listening.
And do you know why? Because you've been tearing
people to pieces, and your hands are bloody.
Go home and wash up.
Clean up your act.
Sweep your lives clean of your evildoings
so I don't have to look at them any longer.
Say no to wrong.
Learn to do good.
Work for justice.
Help the down-and-out.
Stand up for the homeless.
Go to bat for the defenseless."

 

[Cassidy]

Oh Cassidy, how could you say that the KJV and The Message compliment each other, and for you to say that people to come the TRUTH from The Message is unbelievable. They may have become a Christian and be saved, but that doesn't mean they have received the “incorruptible seed”.

can say that if you want...but I have found it to be truth.

Yes, I am aware that others have graduated onto other versions, but I wonder what version?

Why the new king james then the old king james ...got a problem with those too?

The whole point about this thread is that The Message is watered-down MILK, and has no TRUTH or MEAT.

That's your opinion...that's not the opinion of everyone.

 

[Tenebrae]

This isn't the first time someone standing firm for biblical truth has been accused of fear mongering, or some other such nonsense.

I can see the point of those opposing the message, however some of the posts do come across as really over bearing and patronising


And a word for the wise Pastor, calling the opinions of those who you dont agree with nonsense, doesn't endear me to you or your point of view.


Were I still a very angry God hating witch, by now I would be giving you the one fingered salute and telling you that could keep what ever it is you are selling.

Luckily I've mellowed a small amount since becoming a christian, so I wont be giving you the one fingered salute or telling you to keep what you are trying to sell. I do feel sad though that you are so convinced of your argument, that you are willing to ignore the testimonies of those in this thread who had shared how they became born again as a result of reading the message or an equivalent paraphase

 

[Floatingaxe]

My dear sister, are you being rational and in touch with Spiritual reality, when we explain anything we do so with commonsense. So what real point are you making.

Brother---Eugene is explaing what he perceives as the word in common sense English.

Have mercy!

Anyway, my dear sister the thread isn't to convert you, but to warn those who believe that The Message ISN'T a great tool of TRUTH, when in fact it's a book of distortions, misrepresentation, and watered-down version of His Word, and that it isn't a "BIBLE" that Rick Warren referred to as in his Purpose Driven Life!

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

It is A tool of truth, such as it is, and you need to tone down that alarmist, fear-inducing rhetoric.

Maybe you fear it, but you shouldn't be pouring that same fear around like gasoline near a fire.

If you have an issue with Rick Warren, write him a letter. No one here is saying that The Message is THE bible, but it is A Bible, which means it is a LIBRARY, containing the paraphrased 66 books which are in THE Bible.

Be at peace.

 

[CryoftheNation]

Brother---Eugene is explaing what he perceives as the word in common sense English.

Have mercy!

It is A tool of truth, such as it is, and you need to tone down that alarmist, fear-inducing rhetoric.

Maybe you fear it, but you shouldn't be pouring that same fear around like gasoline near a fire.

If you have an issue with Rick Warren, write him a letter. No one here is saying that The Message is THE bible, but it is A Bible, which means it is a LIBRARY, containing the paraphrased 66 books which are in THE Bible.

Be at peace.

Good Post.

Elijah my friend, what we seem to be forgetting here is that the message is a tool for those who need milk. Not everyone is at the stage where they can take the "PURE UNADULTERATED MEAT THAT ONLY COMES FROM THE BLESSED KING JAMES BIBLE!" (sorry couldn't help myself! thats just my twisted idea of a joke!) We all have to start somewhere, and that is where the message comes in. If I started to try to teach a young person from the kjv I guarantee that within 5 minutes I'd be asleep aswell as them. The kjv (and the nkjv) are out dated, and in a language that quite frankly has no place in this current time. We are in the 21st century, not the 16th.

As I have said before, the bible was written in the language and the style of the culture of its day. If God were to rewrite it today, he'd probably use text speak or email etc. As long as the message behind the words stays the same I don't think God cares two hoots how we phrase it! The "message" paraphrase does a good job overall. Just as the KJV did in its time.

You are aware of course, that when the first english language bibles came out the "establishment" and the "wise and mature" christians in Rome denounced them as heretical since the only way you should read the bible was in the holy language of latin. I don't see much difference here. We're talking about our preferred solution. If you want to get down to it, technically we should all be reading hebrew and greek then we may just understand the deeper meanings of words that even the kjv misses at times.

God bless

Simon

 

[ARBITER01]

Good Post.

Elijah my friend, what we seem to be forgetting here is that the message is a tool for those who need milk. Not everyone is at the stage where they can take the "PURE UNADULTERATED MEAT THAT ONLY COMES FROM THE BLESSED KING JAMES BIBLE!" (sorry couldn't help myself! thats just my twisted idea of a joke!) We all have to start somewhere, and that is where the message comes in. If I started to try to teach a young person from the kjv I guarantee that within 5 minutes I'd be asleep aswell as them. The kjv (and the nkjv) are out dated, and in a language that quite frankly has no place in this current time. We are in the 21st century, not the 16th.

As I have said before, the bible was written in the language and the style of the culture of its day. If God were to rewrite it today, he'd probably use text speak or email etc. As long as the message behind the words stays the same I don't think God cares two hoots how we phrase it! The "message" paraphrase does a good job overall. Just as the KJV did in its time.

You are aware of course, that when the first english language bibles came out the "establishment" and the "wise and mature" christians in Rome denounced them as heretical since the only way you should read the bible was in the holy language of latin. I don't see much difference here. We're talking about our preferred solution. If you want to get down to it, technically we should all be reading hebrew and greek then we may just understand the deeper meanings of words that even the kjv misses at times.

God bless

Simon

The NKJV is not even in the old style Elizabethan English like the KJV is, it happens to be in plain style english. I'm not sure why you would group it as being somehow hard to read for people unless you really just dislike the text type it follows.

 

[CryoftheNation]

The NKJV is not even in the old style Elizabethan English like the KJV is, it happens to be in plain style english. I'm not sure why you would group it as being somehow hard to read for people unless you really just dislike the text type it follows.

Sorry I got carried away!!! It happens!

I just don't relate to it the way I do other translations and don't understand the "KJO" view that theres only one "authorised" version of the bible. Who authorised it? when? and what does God say about that?

I think that the nkjv and the kjv are both good tools along side any other translation. To say that we should only be using them as they are the "true and anointed translations" which is what seems to be being said at times, is frankly astounding. The whole point was that both versions would put my youth group to sleep. They are not at the stage where they could cope with them. As such they use alternatives, yes some of them use the message, some use the cev, some the new living, and some, myself included, prefer the niv. It doesn't really matter, they all carry the same message.

if I tell you that "the indians are coming", (please don't anyone take offence it's just an example and not meant as a slur or anything else you may imagine! I just happened to be reminded of a western context for some reason, I don't know why it's just the way my mind works - or doesn't!) its the same message if I say "the slightly tanned, indigeonous folks of the plain are appearing on the horizon". Now we can argue that one is direct translation and one is paraphrase but the message is the same. We may use different phrases but the meaning is clear. That's the way it is with the message. The meaning is clear enough, it's just been phrased differently.

God bless

Simon

 

[Elijah2]

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can say that if you want...but I have found it to be truth.




Why the new king james then the old king james ...got a problem with those too?



That's your opinion...that's not the opinion of everyone.

My dear sister, I use the Geneva, Kjv, Nkjv, and the Amplified, therefore, from those four resources I do get a very good picture of what is being said, because they are translations of the Greek. The Message isn't!

My opinion is drawn from the comparison of "wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine" (1 Tim. 6:1-5) with the "unwholesome words of Eugene Peterson".

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

I can't believe that I have posted many Scriptures that compare the "wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness" to the "unwholesome words" of The Message to no avail.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

Brother---Eugene is explaing what he perceives as the word in common sense English.

Have mercy!

It is A tool of truth, such as it is, and you need to tone down that alarmist, fear-inducing rhetoric.

Maybe you fear it, but you shouldn't be pouring that same fear around like gasoline near a fire.

If you have an issue with Rick Warren, write him a letter. No one here is saying that The Message is THE bible, but it is A Bible, which means it is a LIBRARY, containing the paraphrased 66 books which are in THE Bible.

Be at peace.

Fa, my dear sister, the point that was made at the very start of this thread has been lost completely "disputes and arguments over words". The last point I made is that many refer to it as the Bible because Rick Warren said so. Now that is all I said. And as far as Mr. Warren is concerned, he has had many letters on his book.

Now, if you believe that Eugene Peterson's version that doesn't marry up with the Greek translation whatsoever, as being "wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness" (1 Tim. 6:1-5), then I can say no more.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Radagast]

Eugene Peterson is a pastor who produced The Message to fill a felt pastoral need -- people who had been reading the usual translations of the Bible for years, but who hadn't absorbed the message, and were not displaying its fruit in their lives.

I think many people can benefit from reading a forceful paraphrase like The Message -- not as a substitute for a more literal translation, but to make sure the ideas sink in:

1 If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don't love, I'm nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate. 2 If I speak God's Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, "Jump," and it jumps, but I don't love, I'm nothing. 3-7 If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don't love, I've gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I'm bankrupt without love.

Love never gives up.
Love cares more for others than for self.
Love doesn't want what it doesn't have.
Love doesn't strut,
Doesn't have a swelled head,
Doesn't force itself on others,
Isn't always "me first,"
Doesn't fly off the handle,
Doesn't keep score of the sins of others,
Doesn't revel when others grovel,
Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,
Puts up with anything,
Trusts God always,
Always looks for the best,
Never looks back,
But keeps going to the end.

8-10 Love never dies. Inspired speech will be over some day; praying in tongues will end; understanding will reach its limit. We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete. But when the Complete arrives, our incompletes will be canceled.

11 When I was an infant at my mother's breast, I gurgled and cooed like any infant. When I grew up, I left those infant ways for good.

12 We don't yet see things clearly. We're squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won't be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We'll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!

13 But for right now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love. -- 1 Cor 13 (The Message)

Now I could write at length about how "rusty gate" is too loose a translation of χαλκὸς or κύμβαλον, but that would be purely pride and "showing off" on my part, and of no use to anyone -- it would not edify anyone nor bring anyone closer to God.

I suggest that before people talk about what Eugene Peterson was intending to do with The Message, they read the explanation in his book Eat This Book. Don't condemn anyone "rashly or unheard," for "in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" (Matt 7:2).

I also suggest that before people talk about what does or does not accurately translate the original Hebrew and Greek, they learn to read the original Hebrew and Greek. If not, your witness may be found to be false.

 

[ARBITER01]

We each have a foundation to build in the path set before us. We can choose to be obedient and allow The Lord to build it for us, or we can choose to allow people to build it instead.

We can choose the right tools for the job set before us, or we can choose incorrect tools that will do harm to us in the process, and will certainly do damage to the end result.

 

[BenAdam]

[soapbox]
I must admit I am amazed at this debate. Many people that I count as friends, whom I believe are fair-minded people seem to have lost it on their view of The Message. Whereas people that I find myself usually thinking how dogmatic they are are being completely fair-minded in this.

People, God is alive, He can speak through The Three Stooges if He needs to. Be careful of bashing The Message, you may not like it, and for good reason, but in your zeal, be careful to not crush another's faith.

[/soapbox]

 

[ARBITER01]

[soapbox]
I must admit I am amazed at this debate. Many people that I count as friends, whom I believe are fair-minded people seem to have lost it on their view of The Message. Whereas people that I find myself usually thinking how dogmatic they are are being completely fair-minded in this.

People, God is alive, He can speak through The Three Stooges if He needs to. Be careful of bashing The Message, you may not like it, and for good reason, but in your zeal, be careful to not crush another's faith.

[/soapbox]

Each of us have our convictions. We each have truths that have been shown to us from GOD. Why would people standing against such a freelance version of our bible surprise you?

It is obviously not meant as a professional type bible, nor would any professionally minded Christian tote this thing around and teach from it, unless you were Joel Olstein or someone who likes to tell stories instead of glean particulars from GOD's word.

We are to grow up into Christ, and He used GOD's word very carefully around folks, why should we not also?

 

[BenAdam]

Each of us have our convictions. We each have truths that have been shown to us from GOD. Why would people standing against such a freelance version of our bible surprise you?

It is obviously not meant as a professional type bible, nor would any professionally minded Christian tote this thing around and teach from it, unless you were Joel Olstein or someone who likes to tell stories instead of glean particulars from GOD's word.

We are to grow up into Christ, and He used GOD's word very carefully around folks, why should we not also?

Nothing wrong with standing up, just do it in love an assure that you don't train wreck someone else's faith.

I personally don't care for The Message, but I know people that God has spoken to through that book. I can instruct them in love about it, or I can be dogmatic. I don't care for Reformed Theology either, I have serious misgivings about it and believe there is much error, but I know many Godly people that are "reformed", I would be careful to not train wreck their faith.

 

[ARBITER01]

Nothing wrong with standing up, just do it in love an assure that you don't train wreck someone else's faith.

I personally don't care for The Message, but I know people that God has spoken to through that book. I can instruct them in love about it, or I can be dogmatic. I don't care for Reformed Theology either, I have serious misgivings about it and believe there is much error, but I know many Godly people that are "reformed", I would be careful to not train wreck their faith.

You do have a point, but most of the topics on here turn into a royal rumble anyways, and if anyone was to rest their faith solely on their bible, this place would have compounding casualties.

In my eyes, the message bible is only slightly better than the Lolcat bible, and I certainly would not choose either to do any sort of preaching from. People can get impassioned about their convictions, but we should at least reach a point where we are above the petty sniper remarks and such. At least.

 

[BenAdam]

You do have a point, but most of the topics on here turn into a royal rumble anyways, and if anyone was to rest their faith solely on their bible, this place would have compounding casualties.

In my eyes, the message bible is only slightly better than the Lolcat bible, and I certainly would not choose either to do any sort of preaching from. People can get impassioned about their convictions, but we should at least reach a point where we are above the petty sniper remarks and such. At least.

I do like Basement cat though...

 

[ARBITER01]

Here a section Corinthians from the Lolcat bible,..

Spirichl Prezentz

1 Letz talk about spirichl prezentz, bcz I not want u bein ignorntz.2 Befor u joind Ceiling Cat's church u worshipd idolz.3 If enniwun sez "Boo on Jesus," day iz not inspaird bai Hovr Cat. N if dey sez "Jesus r00lz," dey is inspaired by Hovr Cat.


4 Hovr Cat givz lotz of prezentz.5 N u can servz Ceiling Cat lotz of waiz.6 Ceiling Cat wurkz lotz of waiz in evribodi.


7 Hovr Cat duz thingz for evribodi's good.8 He givz wun d00d wisdm, anothr d00d informashnz,9 anothr d00d faith, anothr d00d healin buffz,10 anothr d00d suprpowrz, anothrd d00d forchntellin, anothr d00d tellin teh differnce betwin spiritz, anothr d00d speakin differnt langwijz, an anothr d00d understandn differnt langwijz.11 Teh saem Hovr Cat givz all dese different prezentz.


12 OK dis part iz deepz. Teh bodi is jus wun thing, but it gotz lotz of partz. Jesus is liek dat.13 We all hadded a baff and maded us wun church, no mattr who we wuz befor.14 Liek I sez, teh bodi haz lotz of partz.15 If teh paw sez "I quit teh bodi LOL," dat not meanz it stopz bein part of teh bodi.16 An if teh ear sez "I iz not a eye, I quit," it duzint stopz bein part of teh bodi eithr.17 Imagine if teh whoal bodi was an eye LOL. U cudnt hear nothin. Or if teh whoal bodi wuz an ear, u cudnt smell.18 Ceiling Cat putted teh bodi togethr in a sensibul wai.19 If dey wuz all teh saem teh bodi wud suk.20 So mani partz, wun bodi, k?


21 Teh eye cant tell teh paw "I dont need u!" An teh hed cant sai to teh pawz "Go awai."22 Teh weakist partz of teh bodi iz not opshnlz.23 An teh partz we thinkz iz nasti is importnt too. Evn if we duz not show dem to evribodi.24 Ceiling Cat maded teh whoal bodi, even teh nasti partz,25 so evri part is ekwil OK.26 If wun part hurtz evrithing hurtz. Or if wun part feelz gud, u getz teh idea.


27 U iz teh bodi of Christ. Evri wun of u is part of it.28 In teh church Ceiling Cat haz leadrz, den peepl who tellz teh fyoochr, den teachrz, den mirakul wrkrz, den healrz, helprz, middl manijmint, n translatrz.29 Iz evriwun a leadr? A fyoochrtellr?30 U getz teh idea, evribodi iz differnt.31 U shud want teh good prezentz of cors. Now I will showz u teh best wai.

It certainly would be funny to try and preach from that version of what someone calls a bible, but in my eyes, the message is only slightly better in it's approach.

 

[BenAdam]

Here a section Corinthians from the Lolcat bible,..



It certainly would be funny to try and preach from that version of what someone calls a bible, but in my eyes, the message is only slightly better in it's approach.

I do agree with you, but my point is leading someone into greater truth is an honor, let's do it with love and gain a brother. I don't know anywhere in the Bible that being right is considered a virtue in and of itself.

 

[ARBITER01]

I do agree with you, but my point is leading someone into greater truth is an honor, let's do it with love and gain a brother. I don't know anywhere in the Bible that being right is considered a virtue in and of itself.

I agree with your point, but I don't cross over into political correctness though. Sometimes truth is harsh but still in love. People will disagree, but love is not always nice, it does involve correction even discipline at times.