What kind of message is The Message?

[Redwood]

Yes it does.

John 3:16-18 The Message
"This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again. Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person's failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him.

Anyone care to dispute that?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Wow, so The Message can do a better job than the KJV, even though it distorts the TRUTH.

He nor I said anything about which version does a better job Elijah2, please stop with putting words into peoples mouths so just to win an arguement. It is what it is, If redwood found Jesus through reading the Message Bible then God used it as a tool just as he uses the KJV as a tool if someone finds Jesus through reading it.

For me, God used The Good News Bible to tug on my heart strings to the point that I fell to my knees and repented and was born again.

You want to talk about milk and meat, I would be inclined to agree with you out of personal preference that literal translations are the way to go for meat, but the milk can come from other sources, like the Message or Good News bibles.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Anyone care to dispute that?

Well, now that you posted this:

"God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was."

The problem I would have with this is that this is supposed to be the paraphrased version of Jesus saying that He did not come to condemn the world, period, end of discussion. "merely to point an accusing finger" doesn't quite do the job of that and one could easily get the impression that as Jesus is saving the world, He is also condemning it as well, and that simply isn't true.

This is the reason why I don't like paraphrased versions anymore. I however wont condemn anyone for reading them either.

 

[Elijah2]

You are right. Adversaries of The Message are discouragers.

The truth is there, but because the language is modern, it generates fears in those who feel secure in the language of the Bibles we grew up with containing archaic language.

Paraphrased versions of the Word of God are only doing what we do every day as believers--we paraphrase the truth of God with our lips and our lives before a starving, thirsting world.

But they miss that truth being pharisaic about the whole thing.

KJV:
“For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” (Rev. 22:18-20)


The Message:
“I give fair warning to all who hear the words of the prophecy of this book: If you add to the words of this prophecy, God will add to your life the disasters written in this book; if you subtract from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will subtract your part from the Tree of Life and the Holy City that are written in this book.” (Rev. 22:18-20)

The author of “The Message” controlled himself with the above verses, which are very serious, but he still couldn’t avoid “not adding to these things” that does not appear in the KJV throughout Revelation.

As for one only example Eugene couldn’t help or control himself in Revelation 2, and broke the very rule he had written above.

KJV:
The Loveless Church

1 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’

The Message:

“To Ephesus (The Loveless Church)


1 Write this to Ephesus, to the Angel of the church. The One (“The One” is new age, and NOT Biblical! Why was “HE” deleted?) with Seven Stars in his right-fist grip, striding through the golden seven-lights' circle, speaks: 2-3"I see what you've done, your hard, hard work, your refusal to quit. I know you can't stomach evil, that you weed out apostolic pretenders (Big difference between TESTING and WEEDING, then why change the meaning? Why change (false) Apostles to “apostolic pretenders”; and LIARS have been deleted! “Pretender” means a false profession!). I know your persistence, your courage in my cause, that you never wear out. (No mention that they do this in HIS NAME, “My name’s sake”!)
4-5"But you walked away from your first love—why? What's going on with you, anyway? Do you have any idea how far you've fallen? A Lucifer fall! (Changed the context completely of this verse. No mention of repentance!)
"Turn back! Recover your dear early love. No time to waste, for I'm well on my way to removing your light from the golden circle (Again the context of the verse has been completely change, and what is the “golden circle”? Once again no mention of repentance!).
6"You do have this to your credit: You hate the Nicolaitan business. I hate it, too.
7"Are your ears awake? Listen. Listen to the Wind Words, the Spirit blowing through the churches. (“Wind words”, where does it say that, and the “Spirits says”, it doesn’t “blow”? This statement has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit!) I'm about to call each conqueror to dinner. I'm spreading a banquet of Tree-of-Life fruit, a supper plucked from God's orchard.”

 

[Dr.Irony]

Anyone care to dispute that?

John 3:16-18 (King James Version)

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Floatingaxe]

"The One" is Jesus. Always is and always was and always will be. No one else can use that address but His own. Of course it's biblical! I did a check: As well as One, there are: Mighty One, Righteous One, Holy One, Eternal One, Ancient One, plus MANY references of Jesus as "one", non-capitalized. I, myself often capitalize it out of reverential love.

You cannot weed without testing/sifting.

False apostles are apostolic pretenders. It is understood that if they are false, they are liars!

"In my cause" equates pretty much with "For My name's sake". (Not the best, but it is a paraphrase, not a translation, remember?

"Turn back" means 'repent"!

The Spirit does "blow" with a mighty wind. That is the reference.



I think that those of you who are having a hard time with how the archaic English meets up with modern English, should simply avoid The Message. Most of your complaints are moot, and making a mountain of a molehill. Pretty picky in my estimation!

 

[Cassidy]

Jesus died for those who are not as 'learned' as others too. Why can't they have a bible that can be clearly understood?

 

[Elijah2]

Well, now that you posted this:

"God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was."

The problem I would have with this is that this is supposed to be the paraphrased version of Jesus saying that He did not come to condemn the world, period, end of discussion. "merely to point an accusing finger" doesn't quite do the job of that and one could easily get the impression that as Jesus is saving the world, He is also condemning it as well, and that simply isn't true.

This is the reason why I don't like paraphrased versions anymore. I however wont condemn anyone for reading them either.

Many of the paraphrased versions are reasonable to a degree. But, The Message isn’t in the same league as them, because of the extreme deletions, changing words, and complete lose of sin and repentance.

For just an example, the word "Lord" appears over 7,970 times in the KJV and is the 14th ranked word used in the KJV. But, in The Message the word "Lord" appears ONLY 71 times and is 1087th rank word used in The Message.

The phrases “Lord Jesus” and “Lord Jesus Christ” occur 118 times and 84 times respectively in the KJV. The phrases DON’T appear in The Message whatsoever, which is an outright denial of our “Lord Jesus Christ”, and
has NEVER occurred in ANY other translation.

Now, let’s be honest and clarify one of the most important issues of this watered-down book that couldn’t be labelled as a paraphrase of His Inspired Word, because of distortions, misrepresentation, deletions and additions that have no similar context of the Greek or Hebrew, and to completely delete all references to our Lord Jesus Christ is no accident.

The issues that is on the altar, is that it is referred to as “the Bible” by Rick Warren in his “Purpose Driven Life”, when in fact The Message isn’t “the Bible”, it’s only a book, because it is a deliberate and intentional “doctrinal” decision by Eugene Peterson to remove our Lord Jesus Christ.

For those who claim that The Message is a good teaching book, then please explain why those anomalies that I have exposed above are so?

Be blessed in Jesus’ Name.

 

[Elijah2]

Anyone care to dispute that?

Dispute the KJV?

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

Jesus died for those who are not as 'learned' as others too. Why can't they have a bible that can be clearly understood?

I thought HE died for our sins.

There are many Bibles that couldn't be any clearer, but when I hear those words spoken, usually meaning of the word "understood" is: to make the words sound more comfortable to my itchy ears.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Many of the paraphrased versions are reasonable to a degree. But, The Message isn’t in the same league as them, because of the extreme deletions, changing words, and complete lose of sin and repentance.

For just an example, the word "Lord" appears over 7,970 times in the KJV and is the 14th ranked word used in the KJV. But, in The Message the word "Lord" appears ONLY 71 times and is 1087th rank word used in The Message.

The phrases “Lord Jesus” and “Lord Jesus Christ” occur 118 times and 84 times respectively in the KJV. The phrases DON’T appear in The Message whatsoever, which is an outright denial of our “Lord Jesus Christ”, and
has NEVER occurred in ANY other translation.

Now, let’s be honest and clarify one of the most important issues of this watered-down book that couldn’t be labelled as a paraphrase of His Inspired Word, because of distortions, misrepresentation, deletions and additions that have no similar context of the Greek or Hebrew, and to completely delete all references to our Lord Jesus Christ is no accident.

The issues that is on the altar, is that it is referred to as “the Bible” by Rick Warren in his “Purpose Driven Life”, when in fact The Message isn’t “the Bible”, it’s only a book, because it is a deliberate and intentional “doctrinal” decision by Eugene Peterson to remove our Lord Jesus Christ.

For those who claim that The Message is a good teaching book, then please explain why those anomalies that I have exposed above are so?

Be blessed in Jesus’ Name.

You seem to be quoting from someone who is arguing that The Message is some kind of translation. Either you say it is or it isn't. If it isn't, which I am sure you agree, why do you use this person's arguments?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Elijah2, that is why I say a balance is needed if someone likes to read The Message Bible. As far as I have read, all of the people saying they like to read the Message Bible haven't said that it's the only version they read. In fact, so far all of them, that I have seen, say they like to pick it up every now and then to maybe get another perspective. I don't think any of them have said that they totally rely on it or have based any theological beliefs from reading it. Sure God can bring them to Jesus through it but that isn't the same as saying they base any theological beliefs by it, and only it.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes he did die for sins...he died for the sins of the unlearned too.

That may be your experience but it's not ours. I've always read both the KJV and the message and found that they complimented each other quite well. If you don't then you don't have to read the message if you don't want to, that is fine. Many people have come to the truth through the message and as they have grown in Christ have graduated onto other versions.

 

[Elijah2]

He nor I said anything about which version does a better job Elijah2, please stop with putting words into peoples mouths so just to win an arguement. It is what it is, If redwood found Jesus through reading the Message Bible then God used it as a tool just as he uses the KJV as a tool if someone finds Jesus through reading it.

For me, God used The Good News Bible to tug on my heart strings to the point that I fell to my knees and repented and was born again.

You want to talk about milk and meat, I would be inclined to agree with you out of personal preference that literal translations are the way to go for meat, but the milk can come from other sources, like the Message or Good News bibles.

Mate, that's great about you and redwood, I found our Lord Jesus Christ when I couldn't go on anymore and I was given the CEV, but now that I am no longer conformed to this world, but transformed by renewing my mind, because I have now gone to HIS TRUTH, HIS INSPIRED WORD, I am no longer a "new babe", but a disciple of our Lord Jesus Christ. I threw away the old stuff, and now teach the GOOD STUFF, HIS WORD.

The whole thread is about "What Kind of Message is The Message". And much has been posted on the watering-down of HIS INSPIRED WORD by Eugene Peterson, no more and no less.

The book isn't a tool or a box office hit that lace the shelves of Christian Book shops like candy, it a desecration of HIS INSPIRED WORD, that has distorted, minconceived, deleted from, ommitted, and added to TRUE words of His Message.

There is no argument of the FACTS that have been posted on the thread.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I thought HE died for our sins.

She didn't say that He didn't. I think what she's trying to tell you is to step out of the box you have placed yourself in and try and look at the whole picture.

We all need to eventually be fed meat, but before we get to having meat on our plate every day, milk should be the standard diet.

People who aren't as learned as you may reject the meat because the milk hasn't had time to digest. And you shouldn't look down on people who are trying to digest the milk.

Romans 14:1-3, Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. the man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.

Romans 14:13, Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

I hope my use of the NIV doesn't cause anyone to judge and condemn me.

 

[Floatingaxe]

it a desecration of HIS INSPIRED WORD, that has distorted, minconceived, deleted from, ommitted, and added to TRUE words of His Message.

Does that mean that when you are explaining or teaching the Word of God in your own words, rather than spouting Scripture verbatim that you are desecrating it, too?

 

[Elijah2]

Yes he did die for sins...he died for the sins of the unlearned too.

That may be your experience but it's not ours. I've always read both the KJV and the message and found that they complimented each other quite well. If you don't then you don't have to read the message if you don't want to, that is fine. Many people have come to the truth through the message and as they have grown in Christ have graduated onto other versions.

Oh Cassidy, how could you say that the KJV and The Message compliment each other, and for you to say that people to come the TRUTH from The Message is unbelievable. They may have become a Christian and be saved, but that doesn't mean they have received the “incorruptible seed”.

Yes, I am aware that others have graduated onto other versions, but I wonder what version?

The whole point about this thread is that The Message is watered-down MILK, and has no TRUTH or MEAT.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

19-21It is obvious what kind of life develops out of trying to get your own way all the time (no mention of the lust of the flesh and that): repetitive, loveless, cheap sex; a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; trinket gods; magic-show religion; paranoid loneliness; cutthroat competition; all-consuming-yet-never-satisfied wants; a brutal temper; an impotence to love or be loved; divided homes and divided lives; small-minded and lopsided pursuits; the vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival; uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions; ugly parodies of community. I could go on (Is this a translation of Greek?).
This isn't the first time I have warned you, you know. If you use your freedom this way, you will not inherit God's kingdom.
22-23But what happens when we live God's way? (No mention of what the Fruit of the Spirit is!) He brings gifts into our lives, much the same way that fruit appears in an orchard—things like affection for others, exuberance about life, serenity. We develop a willingness to stick with things, a sense of compassion in the heart, and a conviction that a basic holiness permeates things and people. We find ourselves involved in loyal commitments, not needing to force our way in life, able to marshal and direct our energies wisely.
23-24Legalism is helpless in bringing this about; it only gets in the way. Among those who belong to Christ, everything connected with getting our own way and mindlessly responding to what everyone else calls necessities is killed off for good—crucified.
25-26Since this is the kind of life we have chosen, the life of the Spirit, let us make sure that we do not just hold it as an idea in our heads or a sentiment in our hearts, but work out its implications in every detail of our lives. That means we will not compare ourselves with each other as if one of us were better and another worse. We have far more interesting things to do with our lives. Each of us is an original. (Nothing about crucifying the flesh, or walking the Spirit, or being envy of one another.)

No mention of adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like.

Now how can The Message representation compliment the KJV, such as: repetitive, loveless, cheap sex; a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; trinket gods; magic-show religion; paranoid loneliness; cutthroat competition; all-consuming-yet-never-satisfied wants; a brutal temper; an impotence to love or be loved; divided homes and divided lives; small-minded and lopsided pursuits; the vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival; uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions; ugly parodies of community. I could go on.

Please explain the compliment for repetitive, loveless cheap sex?

Please explain the compliment for a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage?

Please explain the compliment for frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness.

Please explain the compliment for trinket gods; magic-show religion?

Please explain the compliment for paranoid loneliness?

Please explain the compliment for cutthroat competition; all-consuming-yet-never-satisfied wants?

And most of all how come the KJV version of verses 19 to 26 are a certain number of lines, and extremely simple translation of Greek, and The Message is twice the amount of lines full of distortions, subtractions, and additions and have no similarity of the KJV and doesn't compliment it in anyway.

Such simple verse that have been turned inside out and has lost the complete warning and the context of the Greek.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

Does that mean that when you are explaining or teaching the Word of God in your own words, rather than spouting Scripture verbatim that you are desecrating it, too?

My dear sister, are you being rational and in touch with Spiritual reality, when we explain anything we do so with commonsense. So what real point are you making.

Anyway, my dear sister the thread isn't to convert you, but to warn those who believe that The Message ISN'T a great tool of TRUTH, when in fact it's a book of distortions, misrepresentation, and watered-down version of His Word, and that it isn't a "BIBLE" that Rick Warren referred to as in his Purpose Driven Life!

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

She didn't say that He didn't. I think what she's trying to tell you is to step out of the box you have placed yourself in and try and look at the whole picture.

We all need to eventually be fed meat, but before we get to having meat on our plate every day, milk should be the standard diet.

People who aren't as learned as you may reject the meat because the milk hasn't had time to digest. And you shouldn't look down on people who are trying to digest the milk.

Romans 14:1-3, Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. the man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.

Romans 14:13, Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

I hope my use of the NIV doesn't cause anyone to judge and condemn me.

Mate, I know what she said, and I've been out of my box for a long time, and that is why I am prepared to teach the TRUTH, and not some watered-down version that is ten times weaker than MILK.

If you are being fed MEAT that's great, so burn The message you don't need it, to find the TRUTH of HIS INSPIRED WORD.

If you think that the "corruptible seed" that is has been sown from The Message will just disappear, because you believe that you are on the good side, well mate it won't.

I am already seeing that "corruptible seed" being displayed by those who are determined to tell all that it isn't what it really is. Just by doing so indicates that they may be still conformed to the wold, and haven't transformed their Christian life by renewing their minds with HIS INSPIRED WORD.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Well, okay, whatever.