What kind of Calvinist are you?

Humble_Disciple · Jul 20, 2021

https://reformedforhisglory.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/types-of-calvinism-a-comprehensive-list/

This article, in painstaking detail, explains the different types of historical Calvinism.

I am a moderate Calvinist, who believes that Adam made the free-willed choice to sin which resulted in our fallen condition, in unconditional election and preterition rather than double predestination, that the Gospel should be preached to all indiscriminately, and that God loves all people, even if non-salvifically.

I believe that we shouldn't be any more extremely Calvinist than John Calvin himself. The most extreme Calvinists go even further than the historical confessions ever did.

lesliedellow · Jul 20, 2021

Humble_Disciple said:
https://reformedforhisglory.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/types-of-calvinism-a-comprehensive-list/

This article, in painstaking detail, explains the different types of historical Calvinism.

I am a moderate Calvinist, who believes that Adam made the free-willed choice to sin which resulted in our fallen condition, in unconditional election and preterition rather than double predestination, that the Gospel should be preached to all indiscriminately, and that God loves all people, even if non-salvifically.

I believe that we shouldn't be any more extremely Calvinist than John Calvin himself. The most extreme Calvinists go even further than the historical confessions ever did.

I am either regular high or ultra high.

Dave L · Jul 20, 2021

I call myself a Calvinist so people know where I'm coming from. But I believe only the first 3 points of Calvinism according to the Synod of Dort are precisely true.

I also believe God created Adam without sin. But with a nature that would sin if given a law to break. Adam wanted to sin just as any of us would have, so he incurred the guilt and penalty on our behalf. But without sin, God cannot be known. Through sin, we understand justice, mercy, grace, salvation, sovereignty, and more.

We also bore Adam's imputed guilt but know the saved bear Christ's (God's) imputed righteousness which is in itself salvation. So in this God took the mortal and made it immortal and eternal.

Humble_Disciple · Jul 20, 2021

lesliedellow said:
I am either regular high or ultra high.

What is your position on missions and evangelism?

Mark Quayle · Jul 20, 2021

Dave L said:
I call myself a Calvinist so people know where I'm coming from. But I believe only the first 3 points of Calvinism according to the Synod of Dort are precisely true.

I also believe God created Adam without sin. But with a nature that would sin if given a law to break. Adam wanted to sin just as any of us would have, so he incurred the guilt and penalty on our behalf. But without sin, God cannot be known. Through sin, we understand justice, mercy, grace, salvation, sovereignty, and more.

We also bore Adam's imputed guilt but know the saved bear Christ's (God's) imputed righteousness which is in itself salvation. So in this God took the mortal and made it immortal and eternal.

You say you believe only the first 3 points are precisely true. How do you see the last two points of Calvinism?

Dave L · Jul 20, 2021

Mark Quayle said:
You say you believe only the first 3 points are precisely true. How do you see the last two points of Calvinism?

I believe the New Birth causes believers to act accordingly. The original points focus on compelled faith and works. The new birth does this by nature.

Hammster · Jul 20, 2021

Dave L said:
I believe the New Birth causes believers to act accordingly. The original points focus on compelled faith and works. The new birth does this by nature.

Out of curiosity, how do you see the points focusing on compelled faith and works?

Mark Quayle · Jul 20, 2021

Dave L said:
I believe the New Birth causes believers to act accordingly. The original points focus on compelled faith and works. The new birth does this by nature.

I never got that from the original. But then, to me logically, I have always thought monergism has everything to do with the whole matter, not just salvation. The nature being changed is a matter of being one with God, the Spirit of God in us, not a matter of adding to what God does. So I guess I agree with you, but I never thought anyone meant "Irresistible Grace" and "Perseverance" to be the work of the elect believer.

What never ceases to amaze me is the notion of some that it is always either God or us. They can not concede that we are nothing, apart from Christ.

Dave L · Jul 21, 2021

Hammster said:
Out of curiosity, how do you see the points focusing on compelled faith and works?

Calvin is said to have taught universal atonement. And points 4&5 logically fit with this.

I believe the focus should be on the new birth that creates a person that lives a Holy life. Which is consistent with Limited Atonement. That is, the new birth saves, not obedience to the word and sacraments.

Hammster · Jul 21, 2021

Dave L said:
Calvin is said to have taught universal atonement. And points 4&5 logically fit with this.

I believe the focus should be on the new birth that creates a person that lives a Holy life. Which is consistent with Limited Atonement. That is, the new birth saves, not obedience to the word and sacraments.

I don’t think he taught universal atonement, not that it’s too relevant. I think he was ambiguous. Scripture doesn’t teach it, though.

Humble_Disciple · Jul 22, 2021

This explains my own feelings as a moderate Calvinist:

I do not believe that the system of Calvinism, Arminianism, or anything in between, can answer all the questions about divine sovereignty and human responsibility.

Romans 11.33 is straightforward: God’s ways are past finding out. We know some things, but we don’t know all things. I am content to live with the mystery...

Election was never meant to be either an evangelistic tool, or an ant-evangelistic tool. God uses it to comfort and assure us about the certainly of our salvation.

Why will all who come be accepted, as Jesus says in John 6.37? Because they were given to Him by the Father.

How do I really know that all things work together for good, Romans 8.28? Because of God’s foreknowledge, Romans 8.29.

What is the hope that believers will not be deceived by the great works of Satan during the Tribulation? They are elect, Matthew 24.24.

Why did Paul so gladly endure all the suffering he endured for preaching? Because God had elected people.
II Timothy 2.10.

Just because there is a mystery to a doctrine, doesn’t mean the doctrine is heresy. We can—and should—see the human aspect of coming to faith in Christ, as well as the Divine agency aspect in coming to faith in Christ.
What is a “Moderate Calvinist?” - whbcomaha

JM · Jul 28, 2021

I am the "worst kind" of Calvinist...I'm consistent. I am a high Calvinist who believes God predestines all things including the fall, sin, etc. and that God elected to save before the fall, before the foundations of the world.

JesusFreak78 · Jul 29, 2021

I'm a High Calvinist.

Dave L · Jul 29, 2021

Hammster said:
I don’t think he taught universal atonement, not that it’s too relevant. I think he was ambiguous. Scripture doesn’t teach it, though.

Scripture certainly teaches limited atonement. If it doesn't, people are saved by divinely coerced works.

Hammster · Jul 29, 2021

Dave L said:
Scripture certainly teaches limited atonement. If it doesn't, people are saved by divinely coerced works.

I agree with that. My point is that it that folks can haggle over what Calvin taught, and that’s fine, but it’s not ultimately relevant.

Dave L · Jul 29, 2021

Hammster said:
I agree with that. My point is that it that folks can haggle over what Calvin taught, and that’s fine, but it’s not ultimately relevant.

Saved by works VS saved by grace is not relevant? Universal atonement does not save anyone or all would be saved.

Hammster · Jul 29, 2021

Dave L said:
Saved by works VS saved by grace is not relevant? Universal atonement does not save anyone or all would be saved.

What Calvin taught is not ultimately relevant.

Dave L · Jul 29, 2021

Hammster said:
What Calvin taught is not ultimately relevant.

I place little trust in what he says. I think Calvinists can have logical truth apart from knowing Christ personally.

Hammster · Jul 29, 2021

Dave L said:
I place little trust in what he says. I think Calvinists can have logical truth apart from knowing Christ personally.

You can speak for yourself on that. Don’t speak for me, though.

Dave L · Jul 29, 2021

Hammster said:
You can speak for yourself on that. Don’t speak for me, though.

It's just what I've noticed in some.

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