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Hi Davetaff,Hi David
Thank you for your post but I think we will find that Adam and Eve were real people and the first Adam was created in the same way as the last Adam Jesus Christ he was a whole multitude that's why God had to destroy the world with a flood to destroy the first body of Adam
Hi mystery GirlHi Davetaff,
I might appear a little thick but unsure what you mean when you say Jesus was a whole multitude that's why God had to destroy the world?
In Gods word he makes it clear the New Covenant would be nothing like the Old Covenant with Moses.
He tells the people that another will come, like unto Moses and he God) will put his words in his mouth. That the New Adam who is Jesus , will tell us all we need to know and that these are people born of Spirit and Truth. Abraham believed what God said to him and God accounted this to righteousness toward him. So those who believe what Christ has said are righteous in the eyes of God.
John 3:16. Faith pleases God the most. God regretted killing these people by flood. But he saved the righteous. He made the bow and promised not to flood the earth and kill them again. The water saving the righteous.
Why did you believe God had to destroy the multitude? The new covenant is not about the old covenant.
Jesus did mention them in passing when advising on divorce saying from the beginning it was not so.I hear Christians talking about Adam and Eve.
What did Jesus say about Adam and Eve?
“Adam” is not mentioned in the Gospels.
“Eve” is not mentioned in the Gospels.
The “Garden of Eden” is not mentioned in the Gospels.
Doesn’t this suggest that the Adam and Eve story is less important than many Christians think it is?
Adam is mentioned by name once in the Gospels in St Luke 3.38.I hear Christians talking about Adam and Eve.
What did Jesus say about Adam and Eve?
“Adam” is not mentioned in the Gospels.
“Eve” is not mentioned in the Gospels.
The “Garden of Eden” is not mentioned in the Gospels.
Doesn’t this suggest that the Adam and Eve story is less important than many Christians think it is?
Thank you for your post all I'm saying is the first and last Adam would be created in the same way the last Adam Jesus Christ was created he being the head his body comprised of a whole multitude of believers which he would present to the Father on his return.
Adam is mentioned by name once in the Gospels in St Luke 3.38.
And there is an implicit reference to Adam & Eve in the teaching of Jesus on marriage in St Matthew.
But Christ is fully God, as well as since the Incarnation being fully Man. As God, He is eternal. He was not created. Indeed, we are told that it is through Him that all things were created:Hi mystery Girl
Thank you for your post all I'm saying is the first and last Adam would be created in the same way the last Adam Jesus Christ was created he being the head his body comprised of a whole multitude of believers which he would present to the Father on his return.
The first Adam would be created in the same way Adam would be the head his Eve those chosen to be his bride and and all their children a whole multitude.
I notice that you quote I Timothy 2:11-15, leaving us with a rather negative view of women.
[In my Sunday school class,] a boy asked our teacher how all the racial diversity in the world could come from Adam and Eve. The teacher responded by saying that there could be more than one Garden of Eden ... each with a specially created man and woman. ... You may think this is the craziest idea you've ever heard, ... [It also solves other problems] besides racial diversity. Who did the sons of Adam and Eve marry?
If you think that Adam and Eve are historical people, it looks like this is where you end up.
I believe that passage was cited with reference to Eve specifically, not women generally, insofar as Paul refers to Adam and Eve as real people.
It is certainly one of the craziest—and entirely unnecessary, which makes it worse. The answer is that all the racial diversity in the world didn't come from Adam and Eve, but existed long before they appeared on the scene, and it included those whom their sons married.
That does not follow. That is where you end up if you think Adam and Eve were the first humans. You can have an historical Adam and Eve who were not the first humans.
I believe that passage was cited with reference to Eve specifically, not women generally, insofar as Paul refers to Adam and Eve as real people.
It is certainly one of the craziest—and entirely unnecessary, which makes it worse. The answer is that all the racial diversity in the world didn't come from Adam and Eve, but existed long before they appeared on the scene, and it included those whom their sons married.
That does not follow. That is where you end up if you think Adam and Eve were the first humans. You can have an historical Adam and Eve who were not the first humans.
How long do you say that humans were on earth before Adam and Eve?
It looks like that contradicts the following verse:
Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living" (Genesis 3:20, NIV).
Eve isn't the mother of all the living if there were other humans.
This is an interesting approach although not one with much in the way of support from the consensus patrum or the early Reformed theologians.
This is not as concerning to me as it might be to you because, as someone in the Reformed tradition, I view the consensus patrum as subordinate to the canonical scriptures.
Roughly 250,000 years, give or take a month.
Indeed, but since your interpretation of the canonical scriptures is rather novel, you can’t exactly say that they support you in this case. (Also, more than the consensus Patrum disagrees; I am aware of no divines of the Patristic era who shared your interpretation of Genesis 2, and indeed among all scholars of divinity who believe Genesis 2 refers to actual events—as opposed to the popular liberal hyper-Alexandrian interpretation that even Origen would find annoying, which regards Genesis 2 as being entirely allegorical—I haven’t heard of any that support your interpretation.)
... although if you can point me to a movement in contemporary Reformed theology that does support the idea that Adam and Eve were not the first humans, that would be interesting to take note of.
The real problem is that your interpretation undermines original sin, because in your interpretation the status of Christ as the new Adam is reduced in importance, since there were existing humans who were presumably either already sinful or who were else infected by sin from Adam, none of which is attested clearly in Genesis
Since we know from the ending of Luke that all the books of the Old Testament are chiefly Christological prophecy, ...
Since I haven't invoked the consensus of the fathers, much less said they support my case, nor suggested that any divines of the patristic era share my interpretation, your caution is sort of misapplied (but certainly worth noting for those who require such support before giving a view any consideration).
To be clear, on my view those people were not "already sinful" and that's because God didn't enter into a covenant relationship
This is the case in my view, too. It is a strong emphasis in Reformed theology.
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