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What Jesus do you see?

Deadworm

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Child prodigy Akiane had visions of Jesus and heaven as a little girl and painted the Jesus she saw in her visions. Later, Colton Burpo, who saw Jesus in an NDE at age 4, was shown many artistic impressions of Jesus and identified Akiane's portrait of Jesus as the only one that accurately portrays Jesus as he saw Him in heaven. In this video Akiane summarizes the inspiring spiritual journey that led to the portrait of Jesus:

 
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The Times

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Visual queues do not reflect the identity of Jesus Christ. I believe that visual queues detracts a believer from the higher order thinking and mindset of the Lord, especially in how he wants to reveal himself to the believer, from heart to heart point of reference.

With reference to my previous post......

What Jesus do you see?

The Lord expects a higher order cognitive thinking as far as intrinsically internalizing his presence and identity through our inward part, that is our heart, that is why he says...

Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me. (Revelation 3:20)

The door to letting Jesus in, is our heart, for that is why he told his disciples the following when he appeared to them, yet....
their eyes were kept from recognizing Him.

O foolish ones, how slow are your hearts to believe all that the prophets have spoken.

“Why are you troubled,” Jesus asked, “and why do doubts arise in your hearts.
 
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The Times

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What if I were to inform you brothers and sisters, that you can see the very image of Jesus before your eyes standing in this realm and yet Jesus is not the image or the person present in the image and if you see him as an image, then you really cling onto flesh as the identifying factor and as a result, completely loose track of his identity of who he personally is, that is his very being.

That is why his disciples eyes were prevented from recognizing him from a visual queue point of reference and the word heart is mentioned three times, as to highlight that Jesus is the very heart of God and God is unseen and can only be seen in our inward parts. I could not have explained more succinctly than this brothers and sisters.
 
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Deadworm

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You overlook the fact that Jesus taught us to engage the kingdom oF God with our imagination. Great art is precisely an outstanding tool for that purpose and, as such, engages higher order cognitive perception in a superior way to the dull impressions you have in mind.

Watch Akiane's video and you will have a profound spiritual experience. Are you honest enough to take my challenge?
 
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The Times

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I would like to also inform the body of Christ that the Eastern Orthodox Church did not have icons from its beginning and it would be only later that icons started to appear on the scene and within Churches. This would require historical understanding to the chronology of events that started this dash for icons and images.

Firstly, let us look at who the Eastern Orthodox Church was before the Schism...

644px-ChristianityBranches.svg.png


At around 431 AD at the Council of Ephesus, the Assyrian Church, the Oriental Orthodox Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church were THE Church, before the breakup into the later denominational branches, which resulted in the Great Schism of half of the branch going off as the Western branch.

The evidence of the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches not having icons or images before 431 AD, would be accounted by the fact that the Assyrian Church of the East does not have icons or images, to this very day. This would highly suggest that both the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches did not carry icons and/or images before 431 AD.

I also came across this good read. Please find the link below....

WHEN DID CHRISTIAN ICONS BEGIN?

The article supports the claim that I made that the first individualizing portrait images of Jesus, Mary, and other saints and martyrs appear and art becomes gradually more sophisticated and elaborate, within the 4th Century, yet this would be due to elements of the Romans, whereby in 313 Christianity is legalized in the Roman Empire by Constantine and Licinius through the Edict of Milan. Elaborate churches are built under imperial patronage. Christianity becomes the arena for the elites of the Roman ruling class, that is the aristocrats.

This is where the western leg to be in the future 11th Century, would be presently within the 4th Century, within the Church, that being the Eastern base before Constantine, would only then introduce such images. Then later, the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches, would also follow suite after they departed from the Assyrian Church of the East in 431 AD. I believe that post 431 AD was the dash for iconography and images, that started to appear almost miraculously overnight, whilst the Assyrian Church objected to it and to this day continues to object having icons and images within the Church.

In conclusion, I agree with the article's conclusion that...

Art historians consider the first Christian art just an aspect of Roman art of the time, and the elaboration of Christian art under Emperor Constantine a continuation in Christian dress of more classical aspects of Roman art. This becomes the Roman ruling class's art collection.

If we the body of Christ look towards icons and images as to...
engage the kingdom oF God with our imagination

Then we ought NOT think ourselves to be wise, but rather ponder at where we once were and where we have come to...that is.....

Roman pagan art by origin i.e. post Constantine.
 
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The Times

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The Times

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the most likely scenario is it's either a 4th century original attributed to Luke or a 4th century reproduction with added halos.

Post Constantine Art

"4th century (300s): In 313 Christianity is legalized in the Roman Empire by Constantine and Licinius through the Edict of Milan. Elaborate churches are built under imperial patronage. The first individualizing portrait images of Jesus, Mary, and other saints and martyrs appear and art becomes gradually more sophisticated and elaborate."

Above quote from link below....

WHEN DID CHRISTIAN ICONS BEGIN?
 
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ViaCrucis

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I find it fascinating that someone who identifies as Eastern Orthodox seems to be touting Iconoclastic ideas and denying the basic historic Christian and biblical teaching about who Christ is.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Emmy

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Dear DanianWarS. I see the real Jesus, who died for us, and now lives for us. God Father, God Son, and God Holy Ghost. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus told us: The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself. In verse 40 we are told: on these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. God is our heavenly Father, and Jesus died that we might live. The Holy Spirit is in the world now, to help and guide us.
The Bible, God`s Word to us, tells us: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. We have to ask for Love, in Matthew 7: 7-10: " ask and you shall receive," we ask God for Love and Compassion, for Joy and Peace, then thank God and share all love and compassion, all joy and peace, with our neighbour: all we know and all we meet. God sees our loving and caring, and God will BLESS us greatly. All we have to do: give up our selfish and unloving words and deeds, ask God for Love, peace and joy, and share all amongst us. That is what God wants from us. Love is victorious always, and Satan and all his followers will run away from it. Love is very catching, and God is Love who wants loving sons and daughters. Jesus died out of love for us, and now we live for God and for our neighbour. I say this with love, and send greetings to you. From Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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The Times

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I find it fascinating that someone who identifies as Eastern Orthodox seems to be touting Iconoclastic ideas and denying the basic historic Christian and biblical teaching about who Christ is.

-CryptoLutheran

In my persuit to establish the truth in this matter, I have faithfully presented a historical and chronological account of icons and images from my fact finding mission. I have not even discussed matters touching on faith.

I also highlighted that the Church was comprised of the Assyrian Church, Oriental Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, who were the one Church, uncorrupted by Constantine's Christendom. We note that the western branch was only established in the 11th Century, out of the one Church and not the other way around. This means that out of the one Church the Western Rite branched outwards. This was called the Great Schism.

The evidence is presented that the early Eastern Church Fathers rejected icons and images and this is historical fact, because images and icons came in the 4th Century, where in
313 AD Christianity is legalized in the Roman Empire by Constantine and Licinius through the Edict of Milan. Elaborate churches are built under imperial patronage. Christianity becomes the arena for the elites of the Roman ruling class, that is the aristocrats.

As far as the biblical teachings about who Christ is, we need to make distinction between the time he was in the world, to that when he ascended up on high and was glorified as the King of kings, to be forever more our Crowned Monarch.

We could no longer look upon Jesus as a baby in a manger or Jesus suffering as a servant, rather the Revelation of Jesus himself details who he is for the last 2000 years.

Just believe what Jesus says about himself.....

12I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. (Revelation 1:12-16)

These are the opening versus to the letter addressed to the 1st Century Apostolic Church!

Jesus clearly showed John how he wanted to be portrayed to his entire Church. That was 2000 years ago, so has he changed to a suffering servant?

Absolutely not!

So can we look upon Jesus any other way? Do we look at the lowest of the lowest in the world and portray Jesus in that light?

God forbid!

I mean, just consider his post resurrection titles for a second and please tell me if this means anything at all to you......

Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.

The Rider on the White Horse

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (Revelation 19:11-16)
 
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The Times

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The titles of Jesus are sufficient to declare who Jesus is. He is the Strong Man of the House, his Church House that is.

On an uplifting note, I have linked this YouTube video, I found it very informative in portraying who Jesus is, without even looking at icons or images, notwithstanding the author of the video who uses film clips of look alike Jesus. On that note let us all look beyond the visual queues and internalise Jesus in our hearts, through His titles alone.

 
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DamianWarS

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Post Constantine Art

"4th century (300s): In 313 Christianity is legalized in the Roman Empire by Constantine and Licinius through the Edict of Milan. Elaborate churches are built under imperial patronage. The first individualizing portrait images of Jesus, Mary, and other saints and martyrs appear and art becomes gradually more sophisticated and elaborate."

Above quote from link below....

WHEN DID CHRISTIAN ICONS BEGIN?

Luke was a Doctor and so had somewhat of a predisposition to detail as we see in his genealogy and his account of Judas's death so it would not be so far fetched that Luke also had some artistic abilities. But what is suggested that Luke painted and what he actually painted is probably quite a bit different.

Constantine's obsession toward Christianity dramatically fueled the demand for these things and this is where we see the nimbus first being introduced into Christian Art (Luke did not usher it in) and it's where iconography get's it's dominate roots. This is also where we start seeing dogmas and doctrines of the church getting cemented in from the first council of Nicea in 325.

Christianity finally had room to run free and strong demand quickly monetizes; Icons share a piece of this culture as they still do today. St Luke's painting bears a 4th century influence and at best we can say it was a likeness of the original but it would be irresponsible to say it is the original as its characteristics say otherwise.
 
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The Times

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Luke was a Doctor and so had somewhat of a predisposition to detail as we see in his genealogy and his account of Judas's death so it would not be so far fetched that Luke also had some artistic abilities. But what is suggested that Luke painted and what he actually painted is probably quite a bit different.

Interesting!

Constantine's obsession toward Christianity dramatically fueled the demand for these things and this is where we see the nimbus first being introduced into Christian Art (Luke did not usher it in) and it's where iconography get's it's dominate roots. This is also where we start seeing dogmas and doctrines of the church getting cemented in from the first council of Nicea in 325.

Informative!

Christianity finally had room to run free and strong demand quickly monetizes; Icons share a piece of this culture as they still do today. St Luke's painting bears a 4th century influence and at best we can say it was a likeness of the original but it would be irresponsible to say it is the original as its characteristics say otherwise.

A Gold rush towards iconography. Big business!

As one thing leads to another. The result in my opinion is a detraction from the faith.

I am an engineer and it almost is a failed attempt at re-engineering Jesus to sell to the highest bidder. You forgot to mention that there must have been bidding wars for these icons at auction houses. They still have bidding wars today....

AN IMPORTANT ICON OF THE NATIVITY OF CHRIST , BYZANTINE, 1400-1425

https://www.invaluable.com/christian-icons/sc-2FSEDY58MI/

I can imagine Jesus looking at this with great distaste.
 
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The Times

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From the elites of Rome to the backyard collectors. The central theme from the possession of icons is a form of Byzantine currency.

images.jpeg


The auctioned items were used amongst the ruling class, that motivated the laymans to want a piece of the pie by keeping up with the Joneses. So the merchandise became a market of its own.
 
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bling

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He is Beautiful.
I am just quoting Isaiah: Is. 53: 1. Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,

and like a root out of dry ground.

He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,


nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

Jesus was very approachable.
 
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Ματθαίος

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I think nowadays people love their Hollywood movies...

Looks don't matter.

I really don't have a picture of Jesus's external appearance at the time He was in human flesh on earth. I've never had it. Only today due to this post I was kind of forced to try and visiualize Him this way. I knew all pictures and movies of Jesus are pure fiction and never took any of the images seriously as a true representation of what Jesus might have looked like.

To me, Jesus is the Son of God, He is the Word, He is Love. I don't know. I see Him very differently, with my soul, not with my physical eyes or with the mental eyes of visual imagination. This really is from a different sphere. It's like asking, how does your happiness look or your respect to your parents. It's not something you want and need to visualize at all.

Jesus existed before and lives after He was walking on the surface of the planet in a body. He's eternal. He's way bigger, like endlessly bigger and greater and more wonderful than any little human image that we manage to scribble on a physical medium.

To minimize Jesus to His human form is to diminish His true nature.
 
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Blade

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You know..I use to want to really see Him. But then I think.. well how blessed are those that believe and ever seen. I did want to see His glory haha no clue why. I then that day had a dream. In this dream we were in this huge white place. There was this line to Jesus. I was in the line. Then I was standing before Him. My head was down. He took His two hands put them on my cheeks started to lift my head.. now.. there was this sound.. that got greater and greater and greater.. wow it was so loud..never heard anything so loud..wow. I saw these.. not golden.. but yeah.. haha like brass.. and it ended. NEVER saw Him :(

If we read the word.. before He rose.. He was not one ..well would never be on some MAG as man of the year. After He rose.. walking what what 3 men.. not one knew it was Him. Nor she before Jesus went to the Father. This GOD took my place...gave me something I never ever asked for. So what He looks like?
 
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