what is your take on pastors who do not have formal training, ie went to bible college?

[APersonWithNoName]

any experiences?

 

[Sabertooth]

God uses amateurs.

As long as they have been ordained by church elders whom I would endorse, I am fine with it.

 

[tturt]

There's some who have attended and regret it.

 

[HTacianas]

any experiences?

I generally look for one who has spent at least three years in a monastery.

 

[High Fidelity]

It takes years to train as a doctor to help people live healthy lives and save lives where possible… it’s reasonable to expect men to study formally when their aim is to save souls. They should absolutely have formal and extensive training.

 

[NBB]

You know what the bible says, God appointed people not people appointed people, you need to have a calling from God, and He needs to make you know what he wants. I think this is what helps the most not 'training' i don't say studying is bad or anything like that. What studies people in the bible had though.

 

[EpicScore]

I've been to churches that on occasion allow their untrained elders to take the pew and deliver God's Word. In my experience they tend to lean more into personal testimonies with some Scripture verses added in. I do believe they have their place, and it's great to hear how God is working in their lives and see how these verses might be applied to various life contexts. Still, I don't believe it's healthy for the church to have these "amateur pastors" in place of ordained ones, since they generally lack the theological depths to nourish anyone beyond new converts.

God can use amateurs, yes, but God also uses the teachers and scholars and the great thinkers/church fathers of the past to guide would-be preachers in their study of His word. Even Paul had to study for three years after his conversion before he started his formal ministry.

Of course, I don't want to make blanket statements here. There are probably some Bible Colleges who'd rather train their pastors on techniques to win congregations than actually teaching them the Word, or teach a secularized/demythologized version of the Scripture and these ordained ministers might be less equipped than a layperson who has been discipled by a Biblically-sound mentor. However, it does require firm discipline in scripture study, prayer, and meditation to really have a rich understanding of God and be able to articulate His message and His desires to His people; but because people's heart is not naturally inclined to the things of God, it is very difficult/unlikely for those who are not undergoing formal training where these disciplines are obligatory to actually expend the time and effort to practice them.

 

[Aussie Pete]

any experiences?

Sure. The most amazing Christian I ever met had no formal training. He was my mentor and friend until he passed away a bit over 10 years ago. He did not learn about Jesus. He knew Jesus. He had more insight into God's word than a roomful of theology professors. He spent several hours a day with the Lord, rising at 4.00 am most mornings. He was a hard working contractor. Not for him debates about the year that the book of Isaiah was written or how many animals could fit on the ark. He preached Christ. He preached the cross. He preached dying to self and Lord Jesus as "The Life". I owe him a great deal.

I tried to go to Bible College as I thought that was necessary if you wanted to serve God. For some, maybe so. For me, God blocked me at every turn until I quit trying. I do not regret it at all. It's time with the Lord that matters, not time in the classroom. I've taught Bible classes. I tell those who attend that all I can give them is a little insight. Working it out in practice is between them and God.

 

[The Narrow Way]

any experiences?

Jesus had no formula training, neither did John the Baptist. They spoke from the heart

 

[Margot Lugo]

I have only met one person doing this. He leads a small open-air men's meeting or "church" in the empty lot behind my work. He attracts the less fortunate helping them in various ways, mostly offering a good meal and water. Although he seems to have a great deal of Biblical knowledge, and he's doing good for the community, in my heart, I know I have a bias to lean more toward those who have formal study.

 

[Margot Lugo]

Sure. The most amazing Christian I ever met had no formal training. He was my mentor and friend until he passed away a bit over 10 years ago. He did not learn about Jesus. He knew Jesus. He had more insight into God's word than a roomful of theology professors. He spent several hours a day with the Lord, rising at 4.00 am most mornings. He was a hard working contractor. Not for him debates about the year that the book of Isaiah was written or how many animals could fit on the ark. He preached Christ. He preached the cross. He preached dying to self and Lord Jesus as "The Life". I owe him a great deal.

I tried to go to Bible College as I thought that was necessary if you wanted to serve God. For some, maybe so. For me, God blocked me at every turn until I quit trying. I do not regret it at all. It's time with the Lord that matters, not time in the classroom. I've taught Bible classes. I tell those who attend that all I can give them is a little insight. Working it out in practice is between them and God.

Aussie Pete, I wish I could have met your friend and I'm grateful you're on this forum! Your post has given me food for thought! Thank you for reminding me that the calling is what is important. I love what you said about preaching Christ and preaching the cross! It made me realize how shallow and judgemental my other post on this topic was. I needed to wake up! Thank you for your inspiration!

 

[Aussie Pete]

I've been to churches that on occasion allow their untrained elders to take the pew and deliver God's Word. In my experience they tend to lean more into personal testimonies with some Scripture verses added in. I do believe they have their place, and it's great to hear how God is working in their lives and see how these verses might be applied to various life contexts. Still, I don't believe it's healthy for the church to have these "amateur pastors" in place of ordained ones, since they generally lack the theological depths to nourish anyone beyond new converts.

God can use amateurs, yes, but God also uses the teachers and scholars and the great thinkers/church fathers of the past to guide would-be preachers in their study of His word. Even Paul had to study for three years after his conversion before he started his formal ministry.

Of course, I don't want to make blanket statements here. There are probably some Bible Colleges who'd rather train their pastors on techniques to win congregations than actually teaching them the Word, or teach a secularized/demythologized version of the Scripture and these ordained ministers might be less equipped than a layperson who has been discipled by a Biblically-sound mentor. However, it does require firm discipline in scripture study, prayer, and meditation to really have a rich understanding of God and be able to articulate His message and His desires to His people; but because people's heart is not naturally inclined to the things of God, it is very difficult/unlikely for those who are not undergoing formal training where these disciplines are obligatory to actually expend the time and effort to practice them.

It is difficult but not impossible. There are some, who are truly born again, who do have a heart for God. Spurgeon was one of the truly greats yet I can find no mention of theological training. Watchman Nee likewise. I could list several, but I think you get the point.

Formal training overemphasises the intellectual. A preacher can know the Bible intimately yet hardly know Jesus at all. What theological institute did Paul, Peter, John or Matthew attend? 3 years or so with Jesus was enough.

 

[pdudgeon]

The most important thing for anyone who wants to preach to others is to first listen to God.
The second most important thing for them to do is to get their own life straight, and to be accountable to others.
The third thing to do is for them to forgive others, and learn how to serve.

After they have done all of that, then they are ready to learn.
And when they have learned, then is the time to go out and share what they have learned, what they have experienced, and what they heard God saying to them.
But until God gives them a message to preach, they are to remain silent, because they are still learning.
To do anything else would be like taking a half-baked cake from the oven and and serving it to important guests.
On the outside the cake will appear to be cooked, but on the inside it will be all runny and a total disaster.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Aussie Pete, I wish I could have met your friend and I'm grateful you're on this forum! Your post has given me food for thought! Thank you for reminding me that the calling is what is important. I love what you said about preaching Christ and preaching the cross! It made me realize how shallow and judgemental my other post on this topic was. I needed to wake up! Thank you for your inspiration!

I appreciate your response. I had years in the denominational scene, with exclusively formally trained pastors. Just one was genuinely a pastor. He was at the church I attended for a few months. He was pushed out by the control freak senior pastor. I left that place. I was youth leader at the new place. The pastor told me that I had to harden my heart if I wanted to survive in this business. Really? Hard hearted? A business? Eventually I left there as well, disillusioned with the denominational scene. I met my mentor and friend a few months later. I knew immediately that he was truly a man of God and that I needed to get to know him. I hope that I can do justice to the years of his life he invested in my spiritual growth.

 

[Tigger45]

The Apostles literally slept and ate with Jesus 24/7 for over three years and even referred to Him as Rabbi/ teacher so I’m thinking that’s a good model to follow.

 

[HIM]

No amount of schooling makes a pastor, minister, Chaplin, priest; etc. It is a spiritual gift. You have it or you are not.

 

[High Fidelity]

Jesus had no formula training, neither did John the Baptist. They spoke from the heart

A lot of things in ancient times didn't have training, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take advantage of -- or insist upon -- training and education in modern times.

Would you let a plumber perform heart surgery on you? Even within the medical field there are professionals -- surgeons -- that are totally unequipped to deal with surgery outside of their speciality, and yet they're all doctors with the same fundamental training, but for certain tasks it is insufficient.

The stakes are as high as they can be when it comes to ministry and shepherding souls through the narrow gate. It's irresponsible to tackle it without formal education and training.

Yes it's a calling, yes God may give those men a particular inclination and understanding of Scripture and what it commands of us, but we still need to build upon that foundation so as to serve others, and God, effectively.

 

[HIM]

A lot of things in ancient times didn't have training, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take advantage of -- or insist upon -- training and education in modern times.

Would you let a plumber perform heart surgery on you? Even within the medical field there are professionals -- surgeons -- that are totally unequipped to deal with surgery outside of their speciality, and yet they're all doctors with the same fundamental training, but for certain tasks it is insufficient.

The stakes are as high as they can be when it comes to ministry and shepherding souls through the narrow gate. It's irresponsible to tackle it without formal education and training.

Yes it's a calling, yes God may give those men a particular inclination and understanding of Scripture and what it commands of us, but we still need to build upon that foundation so as to serve others, and God, effectively.

You are comparing spiritual things to non. For one to be a pastor they are a pastor. It is a spiritual gift as you mentioned. Not something learned in college in two to four years. They may have to learn somethings as we all do in the ministries we have been gifted with. But if we are pastors or not that is what we are and no amount of formal training will change that. Though it could help those who are depending on the curriculum and teachers. But the same tutorage is to be done actively at the church through senior pastors, elders, teachers, prophets and there be any Apostles. Something else also needs to be said. The Holy Spirit is our Guide. He will lead us into all truth. There should be no need for a man for this. That is the Faith that God would have us have. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. But we can not serve to masters in this. A little leaven will leaven the whole.

 

[aiki]

any experiences?

What matters aren't academic credentials but a life in which Christ is clearly seen. A Masters or Doctoral degree in Biblical History, or Theology, or whatever does not confer a deep, mature experience of God. Holding the title of "reverend doctor" does not imbue a person with a genuine love of Jesus and his Bride, the Church. The Twelve knew nothing of the convolutions, shadings, and contentions crowding Christian doctrine over the two millenia since Christ's Ascension; they knew nothing of the long, wandering history of the Church over the last 2000 some years; they knew nothing of denominations, leadership seminars, Missions conferences, and homiletics. But they were filled with the Holy Spirit and living in constant surrender to him. They knew Christ intimately, having lived with him for three years, hearing him teach, and heal the sick, pointing constantly to the kingdom of God and an eternity to come. None of them held any sort of degree but by the power of the Spirit, they turned the World upside-down.

Modern Christians want a credentialed pastor so that they can be told by him what to think and do rather than being careful students of God's word themselves, discovering the deep truths of the faith in daily study of the Bible and direct experience of God in the Person of the Spirit, who convicts, teaches, strengthens, comforts and disciplines them, making them mature, stable, faithful, loving children of God. Modern Christians want to be sure they are getting the "straight goods" concerning their faith, trusting to the reputation of highly-regarded seminaries and Bible schools, rather than to any sort of personal labor over the content of their faith, and/or their own daily fellowship with God in which they have experienced the truths of Scripture in an ever-expanding and deepening measure. It is easier, requires less of them, to have some credentialed person, who has done the work they can't be bothered to do, inform them of the nature of their faith. And the more credentials they have, of course, the better they must know God, the more mature in the faith they must be. Not so.

In my experience some of the most vain, self-centered, spiritually-ignorant people I've met have been highly-credentialed seminarians.

Consider Ravi Zacharias. Consider the highly educated Pharisees and scribes.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

any experiences?

You mean the ones who study on their own? And depend on on the Lord to guide them?

Not enough accountability. Very dangerous. Th Ekklesia is so important in keeping us humble.