What is your stance on Churches inviting and praying with LGBT?

ozso said:

Would you be wearing an LGBT+ Pride shirt?

Because that's what this amounts to. Metaphorically speaking the Church is wearing a Pride shirt and waving a Pride flag.

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Of course not. I would never wear something that supports a sin God clearly warns us against. I feel sorry for them as they are so deceived by this messed up culture. They need to hear the truth. The harvest is full, but the workers are few these days.

Cis.jd said:

For them, yes. I do think a mass for them is needed because this group has been told over and over again that "God hates them". Maybe seeing others who are on the same boat trying to come to God is not such a bad thing.

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Those in the same boat would be more like reformed LGBT organizing something. This is the Church conforming to them by displaying their symbolism. To me it's like the Church setting up a bar to make alcoholics feel more welcome.

LoriSaysHey2U said:

Of course not. I would never wear something that supports a sin God clearly warns us against. I feel sorry for them as they are so deceived by this messed up culture. They need to hear the truth. The harvest is full, but the workers are few these days.

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I agree with that completely as should all Christians. The debate here is the method being used. I'd be plenty willing to welcome LGBT people coming through the door of the church I attend. But I wouldn't be willing to hang up an LGBT flag in the church or wear something symbolizing Pride.

ozso said:

Very old fashioned thinking. G is just one letter out of the LGBTQQIP2SAA+ alphabet.

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Still may catch it, best post guards and administer tests before allowing entry.

Desk trauma said:

Still may catch it, best post guards and administer tests before allowing entry.

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Catch what? You can be part of the LGBTQQIP2SAA+ community without being gay you know. There's some dickering over what some of the letters in the acronym stand for, but some claim one of the "A"s stands for advocate or ally. And of course the "+" can stand for any number of things. So really all one has to do is join the community to become a member of it. Catch that?

ozso said:

Catch what?

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The gay.

Cis.jd said:

If had pride symbolism, or anything promoting LGBT then it would be confirming, but having a mass for this specific demographic is something I don't think is wrong. Church in general is for the sinner, it's just this group has been portrayed to be something more intolerable than many other sinners that would come in.

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According to the article you posted the church had lots of pride symbolism. That's where the objection comes in regarding this and other churches celebrating Pride month by displaying Pride flags and decorating the church with a Pride theme. In the video thumbnail there's a picture of woman wearing a Pride shirt seated alongside the clergy.

Cis.jd said:

There really isnt anyway for them to encounter God other than through a church.

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The church shouldn't use Pride symbology to lure them in. And what's the message being offered to them? Just a lot warm fuzziness to make them feel good? The way Peter got thousands of Jews to repent and convert, was to give them a message that cut them to the quick.

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. Acts 2:37-41

Leaving the door open for LGBTQTIA+ individuals sounds good to me. I don't treat people differently based on sexual orientation. That's their own business. Between them and God. Most of the time I neither know nor care to know, and even if I do know it is unlikely to be any business of mine.

That said, I don't endorse the alphabet community's Pride movement. I also don't endorse White Pride, Black Pride, or most other movements with "Pride" in the title. It doesn't matter whether they have anything to do with LGBTQTIA+ politics. I make exceptions for being proud of one's favorite sports team, or being proud of a job well done, but outside of things like that pride is rarely a good look. Along with gluttony, envy, etc.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

I see nothing wrong with churches preaching God's word to everyone. I have a problem with them being worldly, and having rainbow flags and rainbow flowers to celebrate or welcome gay people. The rainbow is supposed to be God's signature. That he will never flood the earth again. I'm not into worshiping Flags either. That's also worldly nonsense.

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Meh. Nobody is worshipping a flag by hanging it, just showing they’re a safe place for the community to go to. Have a worship, hang a flag, it’s all fine.

Cis.jd said:

I live near Hoboken, NJ, and recently, a Pride Mass at a local Catholic church stirred a lot of controversy among Catholics.

“Pride Mass” at Catholic Church Wounds the Sacred Heart

Wolves are destroying the Faith from within. For a seventh year, a sacrilegious “Pride Mass” took place on June 23, 2024 at Our Lady of Grace Church in Hobo

www.tfp.org

Personally, I’m politically independent and prefer to assess situations based on context, not ideology. I find both far-left and far-right views often extreme, especially when they enter spaces like churches. Churches should be places of refuge and hope, not political battlegrounds.

That said, I don’t understand why some Christians react so angrily to churches welcoming LGBT individuals. If the goal is to help people find God, isn’t the church precisely where they should be? Who are we to deny anyone the chance to seek faith? If a person struggling with their sexuality is willing to explore a relationship with God—even if they’ve been told He hates them—shouldn’t that be encouraged?

We see churches accepting people with various sins, yet some react harshly to LGBT individuals. Unless a church explicitly endorses actions contrary to its teachings, why object to them extending a hand to those searching for God?

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I think some issues become political by extention naturally. I mean we know that say adultery for example is sinful, heck even looking at another women is lust according to Christ. Yet we don't readily accept and allow adultery as a life choice option in the church.

But it seems different for trans and gender ideology which is the accepted norm of society. The accepted norm is to affirm trans and other identity lifestyles and in doing so it follows that we should then affirm these life choices. So in some ways if we accept this as the case the church should be going along with trans and other ideologies. Should affirm that a man is truely a women and that they can fullfill the role of women or men when the opposite sex.

What the church doesn't realise that in doing so they are also affirming and acknowledging a bunch of other beliefs that stem from this which at the end of the day harm people and further defy Gods order and Word..Its a battle of ideological beliefs and not just nobel causes.

Its like a battle of morality as to what is the true nature and order of humans, of realtionships, parents and family and the overall order of society according to human made ideology rather than Gods order.

I agree that the church should be welcoming for all but as Christ said to the adulter who was to be stoned, "no one is judging you, you are forgiven and go away and sin no more".

So though we accept trans or adulterers or any sinner we take a clear and different position on going forward which is that to be a member of the church means as Christians we cannot allow those sins to be a norm, to be an acceptable part of a life choice apart from God.

In that way the church should be in conflict with the State and its agents and with societal norms, a beacon of light that stands on a hill and different to the world. For which people will see that difference and be attracted to it not because its the same as secular society but different, the truth and light of the world.

Paul often speaks about rebuking sinners within the church and how this can be like a cancer that erodes the church just like it did the Isrealites. The problem is as the secular State and its agents encroach more and more on the private sphere the church is coming under pressure to conform with its ideology and many are giving in.

So really if the church is standing on Gods words they should not be popularists or conform to the same ideas as secular norms which is Trans and other ideologies around identity politics. They should be in conflict with these ideologies. But not conflict as in political but in fundemental lived truths and beliefs around the nature of humankind and reality itself.

Its the example of a united church even in conflict that shines Christs light and not one that steps into the shadows thus undermining Christs church. Its both compassionate but also non compromising on Gods word and Christs teachings.. Christ said He didn't come to do away with the law but to fullfill it.

I think the best way for the church is to just be there for the needy without judgement yet holding true to Christian values. When Christians are there when no one else cares is when the church shines like Christ. In the gutters, the streets, helping in practical ways which speaks volumes other than words.

Cis.jd said:

I live near Hoboken, NJ, and recently, a Pride Mass at a local Catholic church stirred a lot of controversy among Catholics.

“Pride Mass” at Catholic Church Wounds the Sacred Heart

Wolves are destroying the Faith from within. For a seventh year, a sacrilegious “Pride Mass” took place on June 23, 2024 at Our Lady of Grace Church in Hobo

www.tfp.org

Personally, I’m politically independent and prefer to assess situations based on context, not ideology. I find both far-left and far-right views often extreme, especially when they enter spaces like churches. Churches should be places of refuge and hope, not political battlegrounds.

That said, I don’t understand why some Christians react so angrily to churches welcoming LGBT individuals. If the goal is to help people find God, isn’t the church precisely where they should be? Who are we to deny anyone the chance to seek faith? If a person struggling with their sexuality is willing to explore a relationship with God—even if they’ve been told He hates them—shouldn’t that be encouraged?

We see churches accepting people with various sins, yet some react harshly to LGBT individuals. Unless a church explicitly endorses actions contrary to its teachings, why object to them extending a hand to those searching for God?

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Firsty we'd to have to understand the Church meaning for christians. It isn't a simple building, but it's a
place where humans believe in Jesus and want to follow him to be forgiven from the sin...
Take a look at 1Cor 5,5. It's the same problem. If he's a normal believer in Jesus(Take a look at John 12, 42..48 also), he can have a free life out of the Church as a saved believer in Jesus(if he seriously believe and he isn't against Jesus obviously).

There's no church anywhere that I know of of that wouldn't sit with an LGBT associated person in church for the Sunday morning sermon. (Okay probably those westboro people but that's literally a church with like, 10 members of the same family)

But LGBT would be and feel perfectly welcomed but the call for church members is not to be living in open sin. You literally cannot join the church as a member while living in open sin. You can freely attend the services, but you can't be a member without repentance.

That's usually where the problem lies... They have a tendency to get offended about that from the looks of it. One of our LGBT associated individuals here on forum seemed to indicate that to me once.

We should call all our members to repentance and remove membership from people who are in open sin. For some people this idea seems to be the sticking point.

Christians don't or shouldn't compromise the faith, and we don't let the world determine it for us either.

As far as Marxist political spectacles in RC churches, the RC should repent in sackcloth and ashes.

But I'm not one of them... their own people need to be calling for that.

I think there's likely a difference between people of any variety who want to attend churches to learn more about God and those who attend them for political purposes.

It's the political that draws disgust. Not the former.

Tropical Wilds said:

Meh. Nobody is worshipping a flag by hanging it, just showing they’re a safe place for the community to go to. Have a worship, hang a flag, it’s all fine.

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The Cross of Christ is our flag, because Christ is our King.

Churches have the Prince of Peace, no one needs hang any other banners to know it's a safe place..

Just a heads up but I won't attend a church that flies an American flag either. It's simply inappropriate.

Hazelelponi said:

The Cross of Christ is our flag, because Christ is our King.

Churches have the Prince of Peace, no one needs hang any other banners to know it's a safe place..

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Not for people who feel marginalized by the actions of the church. Like the LGBTQA+ community.

Hazelelponi said:

Just a heads up but I won't attend a church that flies an American flag either. It's simply inappropriate.

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Oh no.

Tropical Wilds said:

Meh. Nobody is worshipping a flag by hanging it, just showing they’re a safe place for the community to go to. Have a worship, hang a flag, it’s all fine.

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Christian churches should never associate the rainbow flag with LGBT. Since God says, That the rainbow is his signature, that he will never flood the earth again. It goes against the Christian belief to turn the rainbow meaning into the untrue meaning.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

Christian churches should never associate the rainbow flag with LGBT. Since God says, That the rainbow is his signature, that he will never flood the earth again. It goes against the Christian belief to turn the rainbow meaning into the untrue meaning.

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I tend to think it’s ok when a thing means more than one thing.

As an outsider I think if religious organisations continue to demonise the LGQBT+ community then these organisations will continue to experience a sharp decline in affiliation and membership.

If you want your church to continue existing then stop hating, and discriminating. Embrace people, show them love and courtesy.

But hey, which ever way it goes i.e. membership decline and eventual shutdown or embrasing people and potentially growing, I don't care. It's your organisation, not mine.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

Christian churches should never associate the rainbow flag with LGBT. Since God says, That the rainbow is his signature, that he will never flood the earth again. It goes against the Christian belief to turn the rainbow meaning into the untrue meaning.

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The rainbow is caused by refraction of light. Light comes from the sun from behind the viewer, it refracts within each raindrop, bounces off the back of the raindrop and comes back to wards the viewer. It's just following physics. It couldn't be any other way. Nothing miraculous about it. It is beautiful and fascinating though. No wonder many religions have developed a mythical styled backstory to it.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

Your belief, not true Christians.

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There are many true Christians that understand science. They aren't incompatible.