What is your opinion? - The intended readership of Hebrews.

BobRyan · May 18, 2025

Paul writes Hebrews and also the statement "there is neither Jew nor Greek... all are one in Christ"

But Writing a book/letter to "Hebrews" - means that Paul is free to use advanced Christian concepts that he could not use with a less informed audience.

Compare the text of Paul's sermon to non-Christian gentiles in Acts 17 - to the much more advanced concepts based on full knowledge of scriptures - found in Heb 6-12

Xeno.of.athens · May 18, 2025

BobRyan said:
Paul writes Hebrews and also the statement "there is neither Jew nor Greek... all are one in Christ"

But Writing a book/letter to "Hebrews" - means that Paul is free to use advanced Christian concepts that he could not use with a less informed audience.

Compare the text of Paul's sermon to non-Christian gentiles in Acts 17 - to the much more advanced concepts based on full knowledge of scriptures - found in Heb 6-12

Do you think of the Hebrews as Christian Believers?

BobRyan · May 18, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
Do you think of the Hebrews as Christian Believers?

1. all the NT epistles were written to people that are already Christian
2. The Gospels and the book of Acts have the mission of proving to non-Christians that Christ was the Son of God, Messiah.

They did that by appealing to OT texts predicting the Messiah and then showing that Christ fulfilled what was predicted.
They also did that by miracles showing that supernatural events confirmed Christ's claims since God would not do that if the claims were false.
None of that in the book of Hebrews.

It is clear in the book of Hebrews that these Christian believers view Christ as the Son of God, the Messiah, our High Priest in Heaven - seated at the right hand of the Father. Paul is explaining what that means in greater depth - but starts out assuming that the readers already view Christ as the Son of God.

In Heb 1 he is expanding on just exactly what that means.

Heb 1:
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Just as we see in John 1.

Instead of arguing - "this proves Jesus is in fact God's Son" his argument is "SINCE Jesus is God's Son - that means He holds all these special roles - all angels worship Him, He is creator..."

Heb 1:
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.

Just as we see in Co 2 -- "in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form"

Heb1: Son of God

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,

“You are My Son,

Today I have begotten You”?

Just as we see in John 1 and John 3:16

In Heb 7 Jesus is without beginning and without end.

Heb 8 - High Priest, one Mediator, speaks the New Covenant which means HE is claiming to be God speaking at Sinai

Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

============================

What Paul does not do in the book of Hebrews - is what we see Matt, Mark, Luke and John doing - which is to try and prove from OT scriptures is that Jesus is the promised Messiah. The readers appear to already know that.

=====================

Notice what Paul says "are the basics" that he is not going to take time to go over again -

Heb 6:

Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment

Paul argues that those are all the basic topics and he does not want to go over the basics - but rather to move on beyond first base topics that they already know "about the Christ" -- 'The Messiah".

Rose_bud · May 20, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
What is your opinion?

Hebrews is written to whom? And does its intended readership shape the way you will interpret its words?

God, having spoken long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days spoke to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds, who is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power; who, having accomplished cleansing for sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:1-4 LSB

God spoke to US in His Son ... Is that phrase sufficient to identify the intended readership? Who is "us"?

The original audience was most likely Jews and Gentiles who were familiar with all the Jewish practices and rituals and especially those who were being tempted to return to back to this. The persecution would be the main reason for turning back. The author (Paul or ???) was trying to share how futile this would be as Jesus is the better and the fulfillment of it all. The rest was merely shadows, encouraging them not to return to shadows.
Some passages even share of the saints who looked beyond the shadows and believed. Hebrews 11.

Also the book was written prior to the Temple destruction, so they had something tangible and tempting to return too, but this would not be for very long. As not one stone would be left upon another...

To the modern audience the message is the same. Why return to shadows when the reality is come, and will come.

BobRyan · May 20, 2025

Rose_bud said:
The original audience was most likely Jews and Gentiles who were familiar with all the Jewish practices and rituals and especially those who were being tempted to return to back to this. The persecution would be the main reason for turning back. The author (Paul or ???) was trying to share how futile this would be as Jesus is the better and the fulfillment of it all. The rest was merely shadows, encouraging them not to return to shadows.
Some passages even share of the saints who looked beyond the shadows and believed. Hebrews 11.

Also the book was written prior to the Temple destruction, so they had something tangible and tempting to return too, but this would not be for very long. As not one stone would be left upon another...

To the modern audience the message is the same. Why return to shadows when the reality is come, and will come.

The Letter to the Hebrews is an advanced master class in theology - relying on the in-depth knowledge of scripture in the case of the intended audience.

Paul points to Christ as "creator of the world" just as the Apostle John would do later - in John 1.

Heb 1:
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

In Heb 11 - Creator of the "Worlds"
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

==============

In Heb 4 "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

By contrast to the "replacement of animal - sacrifices and offerings" in Heb 10

Heb 10:

3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,

“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

In Heb 7 the earthly priesthood is contrasted to the heavenly showing that the Earthly priesthood ends at the ascension of Christ.

Heb 8 "if He were still on Earth - HE would not be a priest at all"

Xeno.of.athens · May 20, 2025

BobRyan said:
The Letter to the Hebrews is an advanced master class in theology

If it is a letter then is is not a class in theology, advanced or otherwise.

Rose_bud · May 20, 2025

BobRyan said:
The Letter to the Hebrews is an advanced master class in theology - relying on the in-depth knowledge of scripture in the case of the intended audience.

Paul points to Christ as "creator of the world" just as the Apostle John would do later - in John 1.

Heb 1:
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

In Heb 11 - Creator of the "Worlds"
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

==============

In Heb 4 "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

By contrast to the "replacement of animal - sacrifices and offerings" in Heb 10

Heb 10:

3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,

“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

In Heb 7 the earthly priesthood is contrasted to the heavenly showing that the Earthly priesthood ends at the ascension of Christ.

Heb 8 "if He were still on Earth - HE would not be a priest at all"

HE is the "better" or the "greater than" of everything we know. The Son is better than angels so heed Him (Hebrews 1, 2). He is greater than Moses, so heed Him (Hebrews 3).

The rest that is spoken of is the true rest that is only found in Christ by FAITH. Believing in the work that God set out to do before the beginning of time. No physical land can provide that rest. No single day can provide it. Moses did not see it yet he also did "see" it by faith. A land of fadeless day as the song goes.

The emphasis on rest in Hebrews 4 is not on a specific day but the Creator of all days.

He is the great High priest (Hebrews 5, Hebrews 6, Hebrews 7), the Mediator of a better covenant (Hebrews 8), whose blood speaks of better things, a greater sacrifice (Hebrews 9, Hebrews 10). Hold on for He who keeps His promises is faithful, don't turn aside to shadows, but remain true to the reality of who He is.

Continue in doing everything by faith, don't just start in faith faith but live by faith... Continue in it... it was a constant warning to the believers as they were constantly at risk of starting by faith and then returning to the old ways (Galatians).

By faith we persevere. And just like all those who believe we keep on believing. He kept His promises to them, and will continue to keep His promises to us. Our trust is in His faithfulness, not in the Old but in the New. So we need to act accordingly as we demonstrate that faith (Hebrews 12, 13).

BobRyan · May 20, 2025

Rose_bud said:
By faith we persevere. And just like all those who believe we keep on believing. He kept His promises to them, and will continue to keep His promises to us. Our trust is in His faithfulness, not in the Old but in the New. So we need to act accordingly as we demonstrate that faith (Hebrews 12, 13).

IN Heb 8 he makes the case for the OT - New Covenant by quoting Jer 31:31-34 as the New Covenant - verbatim.

It is there in Heb 8 that he also informs the reader that it is Christ speaking His Law - His Word - at Sinai. something no other NT writer tells us.

It is an Advanced master class that we see in Hebrews.

Rose_bud · May 20, 2025

BobRyan said:
IN Heb 8 he makes the case for the OT - New Covenant by quoting Jer 31:31-34 as the New Covenant - verbatim.

It is there in Heb 8 that he also informs the reader that it is Christ speaking His Law - His Word - at Sinai. something no other NT writer tells us.

It is an Advanced master class that we see in Hebrews.

If the understanding is that Hebrews "advanced masterclass" is advocating for rituals and sacrifices then it is rather obsolete (pun intended)

RileyG · May 22, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
Who is the "us"?

I agree, it's meant to be a sermon.

ARBITER01 · Jul 6, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
What is your opinion?

Hebrews is written to whom? And does its intended readership shape the way you will interpret its words?

- It's intended audience was believing Jews.

- Not really. The truth contained within it is just as useful as the other epistles.

Xeno.of.athens said:
God, having spoken long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days spoke to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds, who is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power; who, having accomplished cleansing for sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:1-4 LSB

God spoke to US in His Son ... Is that phrase sufficient to identify the intended readership? Who is "us"?

How about this,...

IN many parts and many ways of old, GOD spoke unto the forefathers by the Prophets,

2 But in the last of these days, speaketh now unto us by a Son,

3 Whom HE appointeth heir of all things, through Whom also HE maketh the worlds,

4 Who, being the brightness of HIS glory and the express image of HIS being, and upholding all things by the word of HIS power,

5 After making a cleansing of our sins through Himself, is seated at the right hand of The MAJESTY on high,

6 Becoming so much better than the angels, inasmuch as He hath inherited a more excellent name than they.

The us is born from above believers.

Fervent · Jul 6, 2025

RileyG said:
I agree, it's meant to be a sermon.

Exactly what I was going to say.

The real question for me is, does the original intended audience strictly matter? The notion that different parts of the Bible apply to different groups of people appears to me to be a thoroughly modern idea that doesn't line up with historic application. So what is our purpose in trying to identify its original audience?

Hoping2 · Jul 6, 2025

Fervent said:
Exactly what I was going to say.

The real question for me is, does the original intended audience strictly matter?

No.

Fervent said:
The notion that different parts of the Bible apply to different groups of people appears to me to be a thoroughly modern idea that doesn't line up with historic application.

It is simply being used as a tool of divisiveness.
Makes me think of the Dispensationalists, who don't believe very much of the NT is for them.
And certainly not any of Hebrews.

Fervent said:
So what is our purpose in trying to identify its original audience?

I'll leave that to the OP's writer.

All Becomes New · Jul 6, 2025

Yes, it OBVIOUSLY matters who the letter is written to.

James 1:1
"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ:
To the twelve tribes dispersed abroad.
Greetings."

1 Peter 1:1
"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ:
To those chosen, living as exiles dispersed abroad in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, chosen"

1 Timothy 1:2-3
"To Timothy, my true son in the faith.
Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
As I urged you when I went to Macedonia, remain in Ephesus so that you may instruct certain people not to teach false doctrine"

Fervent · Jul 6, 2025

All Becomes New said:
Yes, it OBVIOUSLY matters who the letter is written to.

James 1:1
"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ:
To the twelve tribes dispersed abroad.
Greetings."

1 Peter 1:1
"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ:
To those chosen, living as exiles dispersed abroad in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, chosen"

1 Timothy 1:2-3
"To Timothy, my true son in the faith.
Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
As I urged you when I went to Macedonia, remain in Ephesus so that you may instruct certain people not to teach false doctrine"

How does the fact that letters have designated recipients impact our application of them today? None of them are addressed to modern audiences, so should we simply disregard them as not relevant to us today?

Rose_bud · Jul 6, 2025

Fervent said:
Exactly what I was going to say.

The real question for me is, does the original intended audience strictly matter? The notion that different parts of the Bible apply to different groups of people appears to me to be a thoroughly modern idea that doesn't line up with historic application. So what is our purpose in trying to identify its original audience?

I would think that historically for the original recipients it wouldn't be a question as they would of known. They may even of had an amenuensis to share the detail of the contents and do the greeting that is missing from the introduction.

For us it's important as it could provide certain details to assist in discovering the intended meaning. And particularly with Hebrews with all its warnings and exhortations. The timeless principles discovered from the text is what is applied to our modern context.

All Becomes New · Jul 6, 2025

Fervent said:
How does the fact that letters have designated recipients impact our application of them today? None of them are addressed to modern audiences, so should we simply disregard them as not relevant to us today?

That is not a very good question. The Torah was written very early in the history of Judaism. You will not find a Jew who is either Messianic or a practicing Jew who would say the Torah is not relevant today.

Fervent · Jul 6, 2025

Rose_bud said:
I would think that historically for the original recipients it wouldn't be a question as they would of known. They may even of had an amenuensis to share the detail of the contents and do the greeting that is missing from the introduction.

I suspect you're right the original audience would have had no doubt. But concerns over audience today tend to be incorporating modern ideas about letters where the designee restricts the targets. We by and large no longer have a conception of a public letter, where the designation is more often than not a literary device rather than an actual address(as in James where it is likely that the designation is meant to convey the eschatological characcter of the letter rather than to identify a particular audience).

Rose_bud said:
For us it's important as it could provide certain details to assist in discovering the intended meaning. And particularly with Hebrews with all its warnings and exhortations. The timeless principles discovered from the text is what is applied to our modern context.

It seems to me that more often the aim is to carve out exceptions and limit the application rather than an attempt to gain fresh insights into the letter.

Bob Crowley · Jul 6, 2025

There are two intended readerships of Hebrews. The human writer mainly intended it to be read by a Jewish audience. It even has that title, and is loaded with Jewish tradition.

God meant it to be read by anybody, and for that reason it was included in Scripture. When Christ chose Peter, He didn't just intend His declaration of "Rock" to be interpreted as applying to one man for his lifetime alone. Christ was setting up an office and giving it authority - "What you bind on earth ... loose on earth etc". As my old pastor said "What's the use of having a church if you're not going to give it any authority?"

And that office will last till the end of time, guaranteed by Christ.

When Christ knocked Saul off his high horse and blinded him, He didn't do it just to save one man. He had a much wider audience in mind, using Saul, later Paul, to establish various churches, reach out to the Gentiles, and most importantly write the Pauline letters.

I doubt if St. Thomas, who wanted to see the risen Christ before he'd believe, expected his exclamation of "My Lord and my God!" in a long lost Jerusalem room to still be echoing down to us today.

What we intend and what God intends are often two different things. The author of "Hebrews" was writing for Jewish converts - God intended to use the same letter to instruct all of us.

Fervent · Jul 6, 2025

All Becomes New said:
That is not a very good question. The Torah was written very early in the history of Judaism. You will not find a Jew who is either Messianic or a practicing Jew who would say the Torah is not relevant today.

You seem to misunderstand, perhaps intentionally, the nature of the question because it is about the emphasis on the addressing and attempts to overcontextualize the letters that so many engage in by taking those designations as rendering them applicable to select groups.

What is your opinion? - The intended readership of Hebrews.

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