what is your definition of secular?

[allykelly07]

That's not true. The Happy Birthday song is a perfect example of something that isn't a worship song, yet it hardly brings out the flesh (sinful nature) and it in no way conflicts with being a worshiper of God in your heart.



Very easily. Worship is a way of life and state of heart, even when your not outwardly singing a worship song or bowing in worship.



Please read post #4, which I wrote earlier. I specifically referred to two biblical songs in the bible that clearly don't praise God. This includes Song Of Solomon, which is obviously a love song, with no reference to God or anything of a religious nature (thus secular by dictionary definition). The second example I gave is from 2 Samuel 1: 19-27, which is a song of lament over the death of Saul, without one reference to God or anything directly spiritual (thus a secular song by dictionary definition). As close as this second song gets to spiritual content, is its reference to "the uncircumcised" (which has spiritual significance in the bible). Read it for yourself. It obviously isn't a worship song or a song of praise to God, but it doesn't conflict with being a worshiper of God either, as some songs do.

Now, it's true that the bible says to sing "hymns", which refers to "songs of praise" (not the modern use of the word "hymn"). But the bible clearly does not limit us to Only sing songs of praise, or psalms and spiritual songs.



Like the operatic style of singing? Do you believe the opera way of singing is worldly? And again I ask, can you give me one example of a Christian artist you believe to sing in a unworldly way? If your saying absolutely all secular music is evil, this means the music of Hark the Herald Angels Sing and Jesus Loves the Little Children is also evil for taking it's music from the secular? I'm repeating myself here, but you went around those questions earlier.



Yes, and this is good. But there is a difference between someone getting rid of music, due purely to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, as opposed to someone getting rid of music because some pastor said all rock music is evil, or all music with a minor key is sinful, etc.

Earlier this year I got rid of certain Christian music in my own selection, because of things that were revealed to me about the music (something I wasn't aware of before). It had nothing to do with what some youth pastor said in error about secular music and all modern music with a beat being worldly. Not all secular music (music about non-religious subjects) is evil, just as not all Christian music is good. Same with television. Not all secular tv shows are bad, and not all Christian tv is good.

Secular music is not synonomous with ungodly music, though there is a lot of overlap between the two.

The word of God only mentions singing hymns and songs of praise to God in worship. In song of Solomon, if you read many different translations they all clarify that Solomon was not speaking of a woman, but of God. You should not listen to the way people phrased the new Bibles, because it is not accurate. They assumed it was about the love of women and men, but this was clearly about the love we should have as Solomon did, toward God. As for the "song" in Samuel, I am not sure it is a song, since he was grieving for his dear friend, it was a lament. I believe any words that are not worship to God, or does not have anything to do with the word of God, is worldly. Especially the way of singing, that is not worshipful. As the word says, everything that we do, do it all in the name of the Lord. We can begin to use the "I am worshiping in my heart" as a cover up to pleasing the flesh by worldly means. "Do not use your freedom you have in Christ, as a cover up for evil, but live as servants of Christ." 1 Peter 2:16

Everything that we do, has an affect on outsiders, and we should be making the most of every opportunity with them in hopes to save them. Yes, it is true that even in alot of christian music, they have words that do not line up with the word of God. So this is why we test everything with the word, to see if it's true or not. Not just listening to it because it sounds good and we like it. Study about these things, before God, to see if the Spirit convicts you of these things. We can't just ignore things like this, just because you have always done it, and it "never affected you", but study to show yourself approved by God, in your ways of thinking and believing. I believe the more we are drawing closer to God and living by the Spirit, we will be living to please the Spirit more and more, and less of trying to please the sinful nature.

 

[PaxThroughX]

Ok, heres what I believe. I dont know if this has been said or not but I am going to say it anyways. Lets say "christians" like to think that christian music (mainstream, klove etc) can be used to reach the lost. That it provides postive and encouraging music. Ok....well, how can music stations such as Klove reach the lost while playing untalented music (we should give God our Best!!!, music included), or just over played songs? I understand some christians may like listening to that stuff over and over, but think about it. How can you worship somthing you have repeating in your head (amazing grace how sweet the sound, I heard this a thousa...nd times?) Dont you think that would drive people away from God. I have a few friends who say its because of christian music that keeps them away from church, "dude does that mean I have to listen to only klove?" You know what this is doing? Keeping people from coming to God! I believe that if christian musicans would step it up (some have, believe me) then that is bonus points for drawing in unbelievers.

I noticed some people picked off the topics of "christian rap." I can see views of what is wrong to some peoples morals, but how else would you reach out to say a big hip-hop fan?

This topic can go on forever, but I dont understand how klove for an example would even brodcast: " you can make a donation to help us, because thats what we do" "we want your money" Instead of trusting God, your going to pull off that. If I wasnt strong in the faith I would have becomed a monotheists. Praise God I didnt

 

[Willing Spirit]

The word of God only mentions singing hymns and songs of praise to God in worship. In song of Solomon, if you read many different translations they all clarify that Solomon was not speaking of a woman, but of God. You should not listen to the way people phrased the new Bibles, because it is not accurate. They assumed it was about the love of women and men, but this was clearly about the love we should have as Solomon did, toward God. As for the "song" in Samuel, I am not sure it is a song, since he was grieving for his dear friend, it was a lament. I believe any words that are not worship to God, or does not have anything to do with the word of God, is worldly. Especially the way of singing, that is not worshipful. As the word says, everything that we do, do it all in the name of the Lord. We can begin to use the "I am worshiping in my heart" as a cover up to pleasing the flesh by worldly means. "Do not use your freedom you have in Christ, as a cover up for evil, but live as servants of Christ." 1 Peter 2:16

Everything that we do, has an affect on outsiders, and we should be making the most of every opportunity with them in hopes to save them. Yes, it is true that even in alot of christian music, they have words that do not line up with the word of God. So this is why we test everything with the word, to see if it's true or not. Not just listening to it because it sounds good and we like it. Study about these things, before God, to see if the Spirit convicts you of these things. We can't just ignore things like this, just because you have always done it, and it "never affected you", but study to show yourself approved by God, in your ways of thinking and believing. I believe the more we are drawing closer to God and living by the Spirit, we will be living to please the Spirit more and more, and less of trying to please the sinful nature.

In every bible translation for Song Of Solomon (old King James or newer ones), it is clearly a love song. So that conflicts with what your saying. If you allow the book to interpret itself naturally (just as you would Genesis 1) and don't superimpose another theology upon it, it's quite clear.

As for 2 Samuel 2:17-27, translations vary on saying whether this is a song or merely a lament, though a song can easily be a lament. Either way, it is a secular lament (with no reference to God and nothing directly spiritual). It is clearly not words of worship. You suggest that any song lyrics that aren't worship are worldly, which means the Happy Birthday song is sinful. Your the first person I've talked to who thinks that song is sin, unless you tell me otherwise.

You didn't understand my worship/heart comments. Neither did you understand some of the other things I've said.

And still my questions aren't being answered.

This time I'll ask one question:

Can you name me one Christian artist whom you believe to have a unworldly way of singing?