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BourbonFromHeaven said:I agree with you. Idol worship is a no-no. In the words of my new favriot song, from the sound track of, " The Mighty Wind "
It's scary, but it's true
So do what the good book
Do what the good book
Do what the good book tells you too!
rahul_sharma said:Did he equate them with Infinite Shiva? Or He defined Idols as Holy symbols?
rahul_sharma said:These are Holy symbols ofcourse but not God. They will break one day. We will replace them with new Symbols. Holy place is more than symbol because of many reasons. God was incarnated in mathura, Shiva lingam of Ujjain is equal to Shiva as per scriptuers. Whereas Temple Shivlingam is just a holy symbol which will be replaced with new symbol sooner or later.
rahul_sharma said:i don't agree. I have to see that verse which says this Idol is Krishna and is equal to Krishna rather than Holy Symbol.
rahul_sharma said:God is active even without that symbol. Do you think Krishna will not listen your prayer if this activated holy symbol is missing?
arunma said:What's the Jewish opinion on Hindu idolatry?
rahul_sharma said:and What's the Jewish and Christian opinion on Catholic Idolatry?
BourbonFromHeaven said:As a Jew, I'm more worried about how you treat your fellow man then what you do in your sanctuary. I'd only concern myself with your relgious practice if you were seeking to convert to Judaism.
arunma said:Of course as a Christian, I am concerned with the religious behavior of others, which is why I continue to assert that Hinduism is wicked on account of its practice of idol-worship.
MahaSudarshanChakra said:Pancharatra Agamas consider idols installed in accordance with scripture as archavataras, the only forms by which God is accessible.
According to Pancharatra, which is an authority to all Hindu schools, including advaita ( see what Shankara says of Pancharatra in his BSB 1.4.42), God takes five kinds of avatars.
1. Vibhava avatar, or the supreme manifestation called the Paravasudeva ( Brahman)
2. Vyuha avatar, the four forms of Vasudeva, Pradyumna, Sankarshana and Aniruddha.
3. Kala/desha avatar like Rama, Krishna etc.
4. Antaryami avatar, in which the Lord take avatar in each one of us, in our soul.
5. Archa avatar, or the idols. Saligrama is considered of of the avatar of Vishnu.
These are not just my views, but Pancharatra literature supports all these ideas. Indeed, idols consecreated in specific ways are cosndiered to be incarnation of the Lord.
Can you replace the idol with anything you want? Any materials? There are well defined rules - just a point to show that there are just not symbolic or aids of concentration.
What do you mean? The Lord is present everwhere, this is not Christianity.
Nope, the Lord does not interfere with your karma.........he will cease to be active for just prayers in all situations.
When you become sick, you got to a doctor right? Or do you just pray? Does Krishna hear everytime?
Similarly, Karma is a process in which the Lord does not interfere under any circumsatnce. Karmic rituals depend on idols and rituals, and they have their place even without attributing God to them.
Have you heard of Satyanayana Puja which is highly ritualistic? Do you know that it is very highly effacious in bringing about the harmony of husband and wife under the most difficult conditions? Do you really get the same effect by mere prayer to Krishna? The answer is NO. The simple fact is each of these puja and stuff transcend mere symbolism, and work with nature and Karma.
We are mere mortals subject to Karma. The Lord himself rarely interferes with your worldly affairs or your prayers. Krishna is the bestowever of moksha, but if you need to surmount worldly problems, he makes himself available to you in the form of idols and stuff, when you worship in specific ways. We cannot dilute everything, you know.
Theowne said:What about it? Did you read what he said?
Theowne said:Because it's quite different than the idols themselves being Gods, as you and certain others tend to think.
Theowne said:BTW selwyn, I've already said we should just ignore anything you say...you never make a clear argument (or don't have the mind capacity to understand, period), so I don't really see what is to be done with you.
selwyn said:Did you read what he said? Or do you even follow the vigorous clash of opinions between two self-contradictory claims of Sudharshan and Rahul in here?
MAXX said:Can't there be 2 or more denominations with different views? Haven't you read those posts by Catholic Kwel who blamed most of the Christians as threat to christianity and she posted verses of Bible to support his claims? On the other hand another Christian (karma2grace) posted verses from Bible and declared all 1 billion catholics as Non-Christians.
You mean to say all Christian denominations are exactly similar? There are Christian spiritist who post verses from Bible to support there claim that Bible infact teach reincarnation. If you have time , try to read some inter-Christian discussions. Atleast after that you will think twice before calling (denominations of) another religion contradictory.
Theowne claimed assertively that hindus don't consider idols as gods as if it was a fact. Now a hindu in here seems to be proving theowne wrong through his claims about the hinduic divinity of idols.
Or could it be that you are realizing now that I really have a point that you were forced to respond in here breaking your own "guideline" up here?
selwyn said:Do you even understand the context of my questions to theowne in here? Theowne claimed assertively that hindus don't consider idols as gods as if it was a fact. Now a hindu in here seems to be proving theowne wrong through his claims about the hinduic divinity of idols. That is why I just suggested that Theowne might want to re-evaluate his opinion. Now what has this got to do with what you are ranting in here in the name of logic?
Theowne said:Again, I have read what he said, and I don't see your point. There is a difference between an idol which invokes the presence of God - and the idols themselves being physical Gods on their own. I have never come across a Hindu who considers the idol as it's own physical God, and I still have not, after reading his post.
Theowne said:I would think not, since I have been saying that for a while now. I don't see anything coming out of arguing with you, it's pretty pointless. You just run around corners and stick your tongue out at people randomly.
Theowne said:Again, I have read what he said, and I don't see your point. There is a difference between an idol which invokes the presence of God - and the idols themselves being physical Gods on their own.
Theowne said:I have never come across a Hindu who considers the idol as it's own physical God, and I still have not, after reading his post.
Mahasudharshanchakra said:If you ask me if the idol is God, yes, it is.
Theowne said:I would think not, since I have been saying that for a while now. I don't see anything coming out of arguing with you, it's pretty pointless.
Theowne said:You just run around corners and stick your tongue out at people randomly.?
MahaSudarshanChakra said:Different Hindus have slightly different opinions on this.
MahaSudarshanChakra said:There is no need to consider an idol separately as a God,
MahaSudarshanChakra said:in Hinduism God is both the material and the instrumental cause. (atleast for most Hindus)
MahaSudarshanChakra said:If you ask me if the idol is God, yes, it is.
MahaSudarshanChakra said:Is it identical to God - no, it is an attribute of God. More like waves in an ocean, not the ocean itself.
MahaSudarshanChakra said:If you think the idol alone is God, you are foolish.
MahaSudarshanChakra said:If you understand idol to be an expression of divinity which is incomprehensible. that is wise.
MahaSudarshanChakra said:The idol, like you and me, are part and parcel of the infinite - nothing to be shunned or laughed at.
And Isn't that what you exactly denied assertively earlier? You don't have to even respond to me. Hopefully, you will be honest with yourself.
If you think the idol alone is God, you are foolish. If you understand idol to be an expression of divinity which is incomprehensible. that is wise. The idol, like you and me, are part and parcel of the infinite - nothing to be shunned or laughed at.
And you just end up breaking your own guidelines incoherently because of your incoherent earlier assertions based on partial knowledge while preaching to others in here incoherently assuming that I am in here for argument with you. Right?
By the way, who told you that I am in here to argue with you or anyone?
I have been consistently saying that I am not in here for arguments and that you guys can infact ignore my questions?
You don't have to feel bad about the incoherence of your claims in here.
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