What is with all the hate on Ellena White

[Jimlarmore]

I recently got a chance to look at the SDA Bible commentary on these verses i.e. Zech 13-4-6. It basically says that if you take a break at verse 5 and look at 6 and 7 together it would clearly be predictive of Christ ( Mtt 26:31 ). So the immediate context after the subject verse as I said earlier supports a messianic allusion.

 

[woobadooba]

I recently got a chance to look at the SDA Bible commentary on these verses i.e. Zech 13-4-6. It basically says that if you take a break at verse 5 and look at 6 and 7 together it would clearly be predictive of Christ ( Mtt 26:31 ). So the immediate context after the subject verse as I said earlier supports a messianic allusion.

I just don't see it. Both the commentator which addressed this in the SDA commentary and Ellen White, are wrong, because verses 1-6 are a complete thought (pericope) which refers to the fate of false prophets and unclean spirits. And verse 7 starts a new thought which speaks of what will happen to the Messiah before these false prophets and unclean spirits are cut off from the land--He will be smitten.

Granted, verses 1-2 speak of the Messiah. But notice how verse 2 speaks of the false prophets and unclean spirits that are to be cut off from the land. This is obviously speaking of the great day of God's judgement, not the crucifiction of Christ. After all, there are still false prophets and unclean spirits in the land. Meaning, this prophecy has not yet reached its fulfillment.

Furthermore, to isolate verses 1-5 from verse 6 is exegetically unwarranted, since it is highly evident that verses 4-6 are interconnected in thought.

See: "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth. And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends." (Zec 13:4-6 KJV)

I underlined the key words which show this link to verse 6, and identify the person who is being questioned in verse 6 as one of the false prophets spoken of in verse 4. In other words, "prophets", "he", and "him", all designate the same identity.

It can't be any clearer that verse 6 is not referring to the same person spoken of in verse 7. To suggest otherwise is to read meaning into this passage that isn't there.

I also did a search online and found this: "wounds in thine hands" is a mistranslation. The Hebrew word for "wounds" is "makkah:"Strong's (#H4347) and is more accurately translated "to be smitten or stricken," i.e. "beaten." The word for hands is "yad:" (#H3027) and can also mean "between the hands, i.e. "the breast or back." So another way to understand this verse is, "Why have you been beaten on your back?"

As a side note, the irony here is that we see that verse 7 speaks of a smitten Shepherd (The Messiah suffering the blows of the false prophets and unclean spirits). And verses 4-6 speak of smitten prophets and unclean spirits (the Messiah avenging the land and His people by striking down the false prophets and unclean spirits). Hence, the false prophets and unclean spirits are smitten by their own evil, so to speak.

 

[Jimlarmore]

I just don't see it. Both the commentator which addressed this in the SDA commentary and Ellen White, are wrong, because verses 1-6 are a complete thought (pericope) which refers to the fate of false prophets and unclean spirits. And verse 7 starts a new thought which speaks of what will happen to the Messiah before these false prophets and unclean spirits are cut off from the land--He will be smitten.

I understand what you are saying however when it comes to Biblical syntax you can often run into blank walls and breaks where the author can take off in a totally different direction suddenly. Take Ps 115:17 which says " The dead praise not the Lord neither do any that go down into silence." If you look at the context of that verse you would almost say it was an insert after the fact because the state of the dead doesn't fit with anything David was saying there before it pops up. There are several places this happens in the Bible.

Granted, verses 1-2 speak of the Messiah. But notice how verse 2 speaks of the false prophets and unclean spirits that are to be cut off from the land. This is obviously speaking of the great day of God's judgement, not the crucifiction of Christ. After all, there are still false prophets and unclean spirits in the land. Meaning, this prophecy has not yet reached its fulfillment.

Exactly, I agree, you have just identified the apocalyptic nature of these verses and remember verse 6 would supposedly be Christ responding to questions directed at Him in heaven or the earth made new.

Furthermore, to isolate verses 1-5 from verse 6 is exegetically unwarranted, since it is highly evident that verses 4-6 are interconnected in thought.

I respectfully disagree. I think a break is warranted between verse 5 and 6, but you are totally convinced that it's not and that is ok, but given the issues here it becomes harder and harder to use this as a solid case against Sister White and her legitamacy.

I also did a search online and found this: "wounds in thine hands" is a mistranslation. The Hebrew word for "wounds" is "makkah:"Strong's (#H4347) and is more accurately translated "to be smitten or stricken," i.e. "beaten." The word for hands is "yad:" (#H3027) and can also mean "between the hands, i.e. "the breast or back." So another way to understand this verse is, "Why have you been beaten on your back?"

Again, there is no real problem here we know from the account in the gospels that Jesus was beaten severely and these beatings almost always included the back and the breasts. Sister White says that the Lord would bear the scars of His crucifixtion for us to see through out eternity.

As a side note, the irony here is that we see that verse 7 speaks of a smitten Shepherd (The Messiah suffering the blows of the false prophets and unclean spirits). And verses 4-6 speak of smitten prophets and unclean spirits (the Messiah avenging the land and His people by striking down the false prophets and unclean spirits). Hence, the false prophets and unclean spirits are smitten by their own evil, so to speak.

In the end this is always true. Our sins are the cause of our problems in many cases. When we sin we violate our own bodies. In Proverbs the act of committing adultery is liken to taking fire brand into your bosom.

God Bless you,

Jim Larmore

 

[woobadooba]

Again, there is no real problem here we know from the account in the gospels that Jesus was beaten severely and these beatings almost always included the back and the breasts. Sister White says that the Lord would bear the scars of His crucifixtion for us to see through out eternity.

But here we see the prophets loved ones thrusting him through, or beating him for falsely prophesying:

And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. (Zec 13:3 KJV)

And here we see someone questioning one of the false prophets about his wounds, obviously from the beating that he got from his loved ones--within the "house of his friends".

And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. (Zec 13:6 KJV)

It is evident that these verses are referring to the same person--the false prophet.

Now then, it's evident that we aren't going to agree on Zech. 13:6, so I think we should just leave it up to the reader at this point to decide which interpretation is more true to the context of the passage.

Incidentally, different rules have to be applied when interpreting the psalms, since for the most part they are personal reflections/prayers.

 

[Jimlarmore]

We can certainly agree to disagree. I still love you Woob and I respect your position even if I don't agree with it.

God Bless you

Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

But here we see the prophets loved ones thrusting him through, or beating him for falsely prophesying:

And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. (Zec 13:3 KJV)

After receving your PM I'll try to respond to your post here. The apocalyptic nature of these texts and duality of their meaning is evident in the narrative. For instance lets take the context apart and see how this can be applied to the messiah.

Zech 13:1 "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and uncleanness."


This clearly sets the tone for the next several verses and it's messianic allusion is strikingly evident. The SDA commentary agrees and says " The coming of the redeemer would , in a special way , call men's attention to God's provision for sin. There had always been a fountain open. By faith in a Saviour to come men had ever been able to obtain forgiveness of sin."

Verse 2. "And it shall come to pass in that day saith the Lord of hosts that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land."

Here we see a duality application for not only ancient Isreal but the time of the purification of all sins from the world. This again in both cases is definetely something the messiah or Christ did or will do. The point I need to make here is this: This is the first verse that mentions these prophets you are making an issue of. These prophets are obviously "false prophets" because of the association with " unclean spirits".

verses 3-5 " And it shall come to pass that when any shall yet prophesy then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him Thou shalt not live: for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord; and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth."

" And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision when he hath prophesied ; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive."

" But he shall say , I am no prophet , I am an husbandman: for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth."

These three verses are an account of a time when those who are false teachers who "speak lies in the name of the Lord" will be delt with. In verse 5 it indicates they are worthy of death i.e. being thrust through and in the following verses it indicates shame and outright denial in verse 5 of even being a prophet.

This is where I feel the issues with the false prophets is ended and a break is warranted. The reason I think this is verse 6 has nothing to do with the context of the preceeding verses. In verse 3 we see that they are worthy of death and later deny even being prophets so why would it say all of a sudden in verse 6 now that a beating was all they got? It doesn't follow the story line, and it doesn't make sense.

These false prophets represent and are symbolic of the many false teachers that will be practicing apostacy in the last days. The word in the Bible here is sure, there will come a time when they will be ashamed of their false teachings and they will receive a death penalty if they don't repent.

In conclusion: The start of the preceeding verses started out with a messianic allusion and verse 6 takes off in a different direction beginning again with another messianic allusion.

Incidentally, different rules have to be applied when interpreting the psalms, since for the most part they are personal reflections/prayers.

I wasn't going to comment on this but since I have this post nearly finished I will. The book of Psalms is written in poetry but it still has a logical flow of thought patterns that speak a truth and portray a sequence of cognitive thoughts. The rules for context are the same for this book as they are anywhere in the Bible.

God Bless you

Jim Larmore

 

[woobadooba]

After receving your PM I'll try to respond to your post here. The apocalyptic nature of these texts and duality of their meaning is evident in the narrative. For instance lets take the context apart and see how this can be applied to the messiah.

Zech 13:1 "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and uncleanness."


This clearly sets the tone for the next several verses and it's messianic allusion is strikingly evident. The SDA commentary agrees and says " The coming of the redeemer would , in a special way , call men's attention to God's provision for sin. There had always been a fountain open. By faith in a Saviour to come men had ever been able to obtain forgiveness of sin."

Verse 2. "And it shall come to pass in that day saith the Lord of hosts that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land."

Here we see a duality application for not only ancient Isreal but the time of the purification of all sins from the world. This again in both cases is definetely something the messiah or Christ did or will do. The point I need to make here is this: This is the first verse that mentions these prophets you are making an issue of. These prophets are obviously "false prophets" because of the association with " unclean spirits".

verses 3-5 " And it shall come to pass that when any shall yet prophesy then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him Thou shalt not live: for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord; and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth."

" And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision when he hath prophesied ; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive."

" But he shall say , I am no prophet , I am an husbandman: for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth."

These three verses are an account of a time when those who are false teachers who "speak lies in the name of the Lord" will be delt with. In verse 5 it indicates they are worthy of death i.e. being thrust through and in the following verses it indicates shame and outright denial in verse 5 of even being a prophet.

This is where I feel the issues with the false prophets is ended and a break is warranted. The reason I think this is verse 6 has nothing to do with the context of the preceeding verses. In verse 3 we see that they are worthy of death and later deny even being prophets so why would it say all of a sudden in verse 6 now that a beating was all they got? It doesn't follow the story line, and it doesn't make sense.

These false prophets represent and are symbolic of the many false teachers that will be practicing apostacy in the last days. The word in the Bible here is sure, there will come a time when they will be ashamed of their false teachings and they will receive a death penalty if they don't repent.

In conclusion: The start of the preceeding verses started out with a messianic allusion and verse 6 takes off in a different direction beginning again with another messianic allusion.



I wasn't going to comment on this but since I have this post nearly finished I will. The book of Psalms is written in poetry but it still has a logical flow of thought patterns that speak a truth and portray a sequence of cognitive thoughts. The rules for context are the same for this book as they are anywhere in the Bible.

God Bless you

Jim Larmore

Like I said, let the careful reader decide whose interpretation/exegesis is closer to the true meaning of the passage

 

[Jimlarmore]

In defense of Woobadooba, we should all be about finding the truth. Many churches bring souls to Christ but have a perverted version of the truth. I admire someone who seeks the deeper truths in the Bible or challenge an accepted truth by doing an extensive exegesis of the Bible to confirm it or refute and reject it. Even though I don't agree with Woob I am in his camp for seeking the truth. I am sorry if I have offended you on this or bored you with this study.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[woobadooba]

In defense of Woobadooba, we should all be about finding the truth. Many churches bring souls to Christ but have a perverted version of the truth. I admire someone who seeks the deeper truths in the Bible or challenge an accepted truth by doing an extensive exegesis of the Bible to confirm it or refute and reject it. Even though I don't agree with Woob I am in his camp for seeking the truth. I am sorry if I have offended you on this or bored you with this study.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Thank you brother!

 

[Sophia7]

In defense of Woobadooba, we should all be about finding the truth. Many churches bring souls to Christ but have a perverted version of the truth. I admire someone who seeks the deeper truths in the Bible or challenge an accepted truth by doing an extensive exegesis of the Bible to confirm it or refute and reject it. Even though I don't agree with Woob I am in his camp for seeking the truth. I am sorry if I have offended you on this or bored you with this study.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Thanks for your fairness. I am struggling with some of these issues as well. To me it's not enough for someone who is deemed a prophet to have mostly good thoughts that lead people to Christ. A prophet is held to a higher standard than most people. I have no doubt that Ellen White was a godly, sincere, Christian woman. What I'm not sure about is whether she was a prophet. Her character and the authenticity of her Christianity are not on trial with me, but her writings are because they are the record of what she claimed to have received from God. The tests of a prophet must be applied to her teachings, not to her as a person. And even if most of what she taught was true and biblical (and honestly I have doubts about many of those things right now), if she fails the test at any point, then I can't consider her a prophet. This isn't about the white space on the paper but about the dots. An ink dot on a sheet of paper determines its usefulness. A little bit of error calls into question what is truth.

 

[Dasdream]

I still can't believe what i am seeing! Now I am getting upset. I swear noone can make a mistake around here. You want to look for a verse that says a prophet can make mistakes. Well you have all yet to answer my previous question. Where does it say they ARE perfect???? I don't know how many times I have to say it. NOONE IS PERFECT, the only perfect person to ever touch earth was Jesus. I don't care what she called herself, because anyone can call themselves that What is important is not what she called herself, but what she is..

We had a baptizm this past Saturday in which 16 people were baptized. They all came into church because of Ellen's books. She brought people to Christ. That is what counts. it doesn't matter the label she gave herself, what matters is what she does. She has brought people to church, baptized, new souls for Christ. Her books have not stopped people from going to church, they have not stopped people from getting baptized, they have not stopped people from worshipping God and they have not stopped people from reading the Bible! So, What's the problem now? Oh yea she made a few little mistakes. Mistakes that don't even effect peoples faith.

Remember who started this thread. My question was "Why so much hate on Ellen?" You guys have proven that she is not perfect. WOW a human that is not perfect? Nah that can't be. Someone call the news stations, we found someone that made a mistake! All of this drama over a few little mistakes that don't even effect peoples faith? Are you serious? All of this because she called herself a prophet? There is no doubt that her first mistake was calling herself a prophet, because now everyone expects her to be perfect. well everyone except those of us that realize she is human. Again I will ask who said a prophet had to be perfect? Many of you think that a prophet is perfect, but thinking and knowing are two different things. I understand that some of you feel that a prophet is someone that is being used by God, therfore they should make no mistakes. The only thing God wrote were they Ten Commandments, everything else he told people to write. Thankfully noone has yet to make such a mistake in the Bible.

Here is another point of view. We are all being used by God. There is no doubt that God is in us all and he is using us. We all have talents, that were giving to us by God to serve him better. It may be singing, writting or playing an instrument. I have heard it before, people have said "well if your gift was given by God, then you should be perfect and if you make a mistake then that means God didn't give it to you." Sound familiar? I told them what i have told you all. Noone is perfect. God is in us but so is Satan. God can give you a gift, but Satan will try to take it away or even ruin it. That is what happned to Ellen, God gave her the gift of writting, but Satan stepped in and made her commit a few mistakes. Now a few people are calling her a liar and isn't being used by God. Noone has brought more souls (other then Jesus) to Christ then Ellens books, yet look at how we treat her. Sad when you think about it.

 

[woobadooba]

I still can't believe what i am seeing! Now I am getting upset. I swear noone can make a mistake around here. You want to look for a verse that says a prophet can make mistakes. Well you have all yet to answer my previous question. Where does it say they ARE perfect???? I don't know how many times I have to say it. NOONE IS PERFECT, the only perfect person to ever touch earth was Jesus. I don't care what she called herself, because anyone can call themselves that What is important is not what she called herself, but what she is..

We had a baptizm this past Saturday in which 16 people were baptized. They all came into church because of Ellen's books. She brought people to Christ. That is what counts. it doesn't matter the label she gave herself, what matters is what she does. She has brought people to church, baptized, new souls for Christ. Her books have not stopped people from going to church, they have not stopped people from getting baptized, they have not stopped people from worshipping God and they have not stopped people from reading the Bible! So, What's the problem now? Oh yea she made a few little mistakes. Mistakes that don't even effect peoples faith.

Remember who started this thread. My question was "Why so much hate on Ellen?" You guys have proven that she is not perfect. WOW a human that is not perfect? Nah that can't be. Someone call the news stations, we found someone that made a mistake! All of this drama over a few little mistakes that don't even effect peoples faith? Are you serious? All of this because she called herself a prophet? There is no doubt that her first mistake was calling herself a prophet, because now everyone expects her to be perfect. well everyone except those of us that realize she is human. Again I will ask who said a prophet had to be perfect? Many of you think that a prophet is perfect, but thinking and knowing are two different things. I understand that some of you feel that a prophet is someone that is being used by God, therfore they should make no mistakes. The only thing God wrote were they Ten Commandments, everything else he told people to write. Thankfully noone has yet to make such a mistake in the Bible.

Here is another point of view. We are all being used by God. There is no doubt that God is in us all and he is using us. We all have talents, that were giving to us by God to serve him better. It may be singing, writting or playing an instrument. I have heard it before, people have said "well if your gift was given by God, then you should be perfect and if you make a mistake then that means God didn't give it to you." Sound familiar? I told them what i have told you all. Noone is perfect. God is in us but so is Satan. God can give you a gift, but Satan will try to take it away or even ruin it. That is what happned to Ellen, God gave her the gift of writting, but Satan stepped in and made her commit a few mistakes. Now a few people are calling her a liar and isn't being used by God. Noone has brought more souls (other then Jesus) to Christ then Ellens books, yet look at how we treat her. Sad when you think about it.

How many books have you read written by Ellen White?

 

[Dasdream]

don't change the subject or avoid the question. Where does it say a prophet has to be perfect? Where does it say Ellen was perfect? Where does it say an Angel of God came to her and told her to write. God is using her, but God is not writting for her.

 

[Dathen]

Good to see you still at the forums Dasdream...

 

[Goya]

I still can't believe what i am seeing! Now I am getting upset. I swear noone can make a mistake around here. You want to look for a verse that says a prophet can make mistakes. Well you have all yet to answer my previous question. Where does it say they ARE perfect???? I don't know how many times I have to say it. NOONE IS PERFECT, the only perfect person to ever touch earth was Jesus. I don't care what she called herself, because anyone can call themselves that What is important is not what she called herself, but what she is..

OK Dasdream, ill be answering your post.
FIRST OF ALL, EGW was not perfect in her life... we all understand that. Yeshua : JesuChrist was the only perfect man on the face of this earth.
Now.. what i want to point out is that if a person is going to prophesy about "dreams or trances" that was revealed to them by God, the prophecy should not contradict the bible or the word AT ALL. (Jeremiah 23:25 | please read the whole context)

We had a baptizm this past Saturday in which 16 people were baptized. They all came into church because of Ellen's books. She brought people to Christ. That is what counts. it doesn't matter the label she gave herself, what matters is what she does. She has brought people to church, baptized, new souls for Christ. Her books have not stopped people from going to church, they have not stopped people from getting baptized, they have not stopped people from worshipping God and they have not stopped people from reading the Bible! So, What's the problem now? Oh yea she made a few little mistakes. Mistakes that don't even effect peoples faith.

(snif) (snif) im..... smelling a contradiction here from... EGW?!?

"Early Writings, p. 74] I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as he wanted them; that his hand was over a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until his hand was removed.."
Also...
"EGW > Spiritual Gifts, Vol 1, p. 136: The most devoted gladly recieved the message, they knew it was from God, and that it was delivered at the right time.. Angels were watching with the deepest interest the result of the heavenly message and when the churhes turned from and rejected it, they in sadness consulted with Jesus. HE TURNED HIS FACE FROM THE CHURCHES, and bid his angels to faithfully watch over the precious ones who did not reject the testomony, for another light was yet to shine upon them."

First of all, those people who EGW's books have helped them get baptized needed to accept her doctirine of the 1844(which is scripturally unsupported). Namely, if those people decided not to accept the 1843 chart which had failed, she recklessly mentions that JEsus himself turns his face on them.

Please keep in mind that im not pointing out EGW's mistakes as a human. Im TOTALLY against her writings that do not have scriptural support and her support on William Miller's erroneous
charts.

Remember who started this thread. My question was "Why so much hate on Ellen?" You guys have proven that she is not perfect. WOW a human that is not perfect? Nah that can't be. Someone call the news stations, we found someone that made a mistake! All of this drama over a few little mistakes that don't even effect peoples faith? Are you serious? All of this because she called herself a prophet? There is no doubt that her first mistake was calling herself a prophet, because now everyone expects her to be perfect. well everyone except those of us that realize she is human. Again I will ask who said a prophet had to be perfect? Many of you think that a prophet is perfect, but thinking and knowing are two different things. I understand that some of you feel that a prophet is someone that is being used by God, therfore they should make no mistakes. The only thing God wrote were they Ten Commandments, everything else he told people to write. Thankfully noone has yet to make such a mistake in the Bible.

Sorry buddeh!
But when it comes to scripture, prophets cannot make the slightest mistake at all. (once again... Jeremiah 23:25 | whole context)

Here is another point of view. We are all being used by God. There is no doubt that God is in us all and he is using us. We all have talents, that were giving to us by God to serve him better. It may be singing, writting or playing an instrument. I have heard it before, people have said "well if your gift was given by God, then you should be perfect and if you make a mistake then that means God didn't give it to you." Sound familiar? I told them what i have told you all. Noone is perfect. God is in us but so is Satan. God can give you a gift, but Satan will try to take it away or even ruin it. That is what happned to Ellen, God gave her the gift of writting, but Satan stepped in and made her commit a few mistakes. Now a few people are calling her a liar and isn't being used by God. Noone has brought more souls (other then Jesus) to Christ then Ellens books, yet look at how we treat her. Sad when you think about it.

WHAT! so it satan in us?!?!?... i hope your referring to our sin nature and not the lad himself.
How can a demon or satan reside within us if we are sealed by the holy ghost?

1. Ephesians 1:13
   In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
2. Ephesians 4:30
   And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Paul was Saved and even after his conversion, he Struggled with the Indwelling Sin Nature..... Rom 7:15-25 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The only way that a person can be "freed from sin" is by virtue of what
"Christ did at the Cross of Calvary" he did it all on our behalf we did not deserve it. As we can all see the problem is not "Satan" but rather sin that dwelleth in us, Satan can tempt but we are the ones that chose whether to obey or disobey, or if it wasn't like that, then it would be an impossibility to be held accountable for our own actions as scriptures teaches.

Please, do not mix both satan and our in dwelling sin nature because they are both different.
Peace be with you brother.
Chao

 

[Goya]

Brothers and Sisters,
My intention is only to point out what is in scripture

 

[Dathen]

Amen!!

PS: I'll poke you allright. Looks at your avatar. LOL.

 

[theophile]

Ii am appalled by this thread!!! when I was baptized, I didn't believe that EGW was a prophet, but was told all i had to do was believe that the spirit of prophecy was one of the marks of the remnant church.
I remember it is when she says "I was shown' that it must be a true statement. Other than that, I think it's to expound a truth so many will understand better.

Also,EGW brought NOONE into the church!!!!!!!That is the love of Christ, and the wooing of the Holy Spirit.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think each should read for themselves, and am totally unimpressed with someone who tries to puff themselves up. the I'm right you're wrong stuff.

 

[Dasdream]

OK Dasdream, ill be answering your post.
FIRST OF ALL, EGW was not perfect in her life... we all understand that. Yeshua : JesuChrist was the only perfect man on the face of this earth.
Now.. what i want to point out is that if a person is going to prophesy about "dreams or trances" that was revealed to them by God, the prophecy should not contradict the bible or the word AT ALL. (Jeremiah 23:25 | please read the whole context)




(snif) (snif) im..... smelling a contradiction here from... EGW?!?

"Early Writings, p. 74] I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as he wanted them; that his hand was over a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until his hand was removed.."
Also...
"EGW > Spiritual Gifts, Vol 1, p. 136: The most devoted gladly recieved the message, they knew it was from God, and that it was delivered at the right time.. Angels were watching with the deepest interest the result of the heavenly message and when the churhes turned from and rejected it, they in sadness consulted with Jesus. HE TURNED HIS FACE FROM THE CHURCHES, and bid his angels to faithfully watch over the precious ones who did not reject the testomony, for another light was yet to shine upon them."

First of all, those people who EGW's books have helped them get baptized needed to accept her doctirine of the 1844(which is scripturally unsupported). Namely, if those people decided not to accept the 1843 chart which had failed, she recklessly mentions that JEsus himself turns his face on them.

Please keep in mind that im not pointing out EGW's mistakes as a human. Im TOTALLY against her writings that do not have scriptural support and her support on William Miller's erroneous
charts.



Sorry buddeh!
But when it comes to scripture, prophets cannot make the slightest mistake at all. (once again... Jeremiah 23:25 | whole context)



WHAT! so it satan in us?!?!?... i hope your referring to our sin nature and not the lad himself.
How can a demon or satan reside within us if we are sealed by the holy ghost?

1. Ephesians 1:13
   In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
2. Ephesians 4:30
   And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Paul was Saved and even after his conversion, he Struggled with the Indwelling Sin Nature..... Rom 7:15-25 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The only way that a person can be "freed from sin" is by virtue of what
"Christ did at the Cross of Calvary" he did it all on our behalf we did not deserve it. As we can all see the problem is not "Satan" but rather sin that dwelleth in us, Satan can tempt but we are the ones that chose whether to obey or disobey, or if it wasn't like that, then it would be an impossibility to be held accountable for our own actions as scriptures teaches.

Please, do not mix both satan and our in dwelling sin nature because they are both different.
Peace be with you brother.
Chao

and your point being what? I guess you missed the part where I said her first mistake was calling herself a prophet. Now everyone is against her like you are, most people hate our religion for what you guys have been doing to Ellen. Nice job. Now I said people got baptized because of her books. Did I say her books were the ONLY thing they read? Did I say her books were the main reason they got baptized. No I did not. Thank you for not putting words in my mouth....or words in my post whatever. This religion is about God not Ellen. They knew who they were worshipping and why. Anyone that gets baptized only after reading her books shouldn't be getting baptized.

You people just don't get it!!!! Go to the pastor, go to the head office of the religion or something and talk to them, but don't post about it on the internet where many people will leave, doubt and critisize our religion because of her books. Boy I wish I wouldn't be censored. i wish i could speak my mind and really wake you guys up and make you realize what you are doing here!

My question was "What is with all the hate on Ellena White ?" You guys have proven that she made a few mistakes. Well, that is a good reason to not like someone ey? I am not going to repeat myself for the hundreth time. But I will say this. When my book does come out I will not mention it here, because I do mention that God is using me and you guys will most likley disagree with that and start a "Dasdream not good for the SDA religion" Thread. Oh brother

I am very close to leaving the church you guys have killed my spirit by your neverending onslaught on Ellen White! She made a mistake! You guys act like it was some act of terrorsim!

 

[woobadooba]

I am very close to leaving the church you guys have killed my spirit by your neverending onslaught on Ellen White! She made a mistake! You guys act like it was some act of terrorsim!

Is your faith in Christ that weak that you would leave the church because some differ with you in their opinion on certain things?

If you leave the church it won't be because of anything but your own choice.

By the way, I am going to say this to you again: just because someone doesn't agree that Ellen White was a prophet that doesn't mean that person hates her. You should stop accusing others of hating Ellen White. You don't know what's in our heart, and have no right to make such harsh judgments.