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Soyeong

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1 Jn 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all b sin.

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

I've always found this passage hard to understand. It seems to be saying that if I sin I can't be walking in the light. But if I claim not to have sinned I'm lying. Now, like all Christians I sin so can any Christian claim truthfully to "walk in the light"?

Reading it more carefully in my quiet time this morning I came to this conclusion: that "walking in light" here is more about continual confession than being sinless. Note that Romans 6 makes the point that this is not a licence to sin so not "I can sin all I like as long as I confess". But who is there here who is "without sin"?

Note in verse 9 it explicitly states that it is "confessing sins" that leads to "forgiveness" and "purification from all unrighteousness" AND in verse 7 "walking in the light" leads to "purification from all sin".

Now sin (hamartia=missing the mark) and unrighteousness (adikia=opposite of (God's) justice) are not the same Greek words but they seem fairly close in meaning.

So the bottom line is don't let the feeling of guilt from sin prevent you from walking in God's light but rather be honest with God about your failings. The problems come when you try to pretend to God that you haven't sinned: God knows you better than that.

The light reveals the truth, God's word is truth (John 17:17), God's word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path (Psalms 119:105), and God's law is truth (Psalms 119:142), and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so walking in the light is walking in the light is living in a way that testifies to the truth of God law. This is consistent with the blood of Jesus purifying those who walk in the light from all sin. In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Christ, but don't keep His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them, so there is a position where we are still recognized as walking in the light by keeping God's law even though we aren't keeping it sinlessly and this is where repentance through confessing our sins comes into play. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so walking in the light by obeying God's law is the way that God knows us.
 
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2BeholdHisGlory

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Walking in the light or walking in the darkness are contrasted between the love and/or hate of ones brother

1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother,
is in darkness even until now.

1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light,
and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1 John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness,
and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth,
because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

The same contrast is shown between having life in them or abiding in death

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life,
because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer:
and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Love/Light/Life or Hate/Darkness/Death
 
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Vanellus

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Sounds like you received some illumination in your quiet time reading. The Spirit at work.

NKJ John 8:12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

1 John is very much a commentary on the Gospel of John and elaborates on many things stated there.

Long but good read of some teaching I read about this verse some time ago:

Light in John is always moral, ethical light, +R, justice. man has conscience and the image of God but his souls require an outside source of guidance. Jesus is the person of the Godhead that gives the light to men. where even unbelieving man makes moral judgments he in actuality admits to Jesus existence & influence & appropriates what Jesus gives him. During the Feast of Tabernacles they would light the candelabra, except there weren’t candles on it, this would be a vast tall thing that looked like the Jewish set of lamps. These were approximately 180 feet tall, and they would have young men training for the priesthood who would make wicks for the lamps that would burn oil and they would climb up this vast tall structure to light those lights. And the temple tradition says that when the lights were lit, and during the Feast of Tabernacles all of the city of Jerusalem was lit up from them, you could see the lights high in the temple looking out over the whole city of Jerusalem. Now something else happened also that day in the days of the Feast of Tabernacles. When the feast began on the first day it began exactly on the day when the sun would go down at the same time in the west that the moon was rising in the east full. Now there’s significance to this, remember they had a lunar calendar, they measured their dates by the lunar calendar. All during the night of the party that we’ve mentioned before you have a full moon; the moon would be going across the sky and finally setting in the west just as the sun would come up from the east. The ceremony began exactly at that point. Why was this? So there would be no darkness; the Feast of Tabernacles speaks of the coming millennial kingdom when the light of the Lord shall fill the world, and therefore they picked just that time of year when the sun and the moon come up exactly at the same time and the moon comes up full, so there would be no darkness. Besides the light of the moon and the light of the sun there would be these giant 180 foot tall lamps that would show light throughout the whole court. Now that has been going on for some time, now the day, probably a day or two after the feast, John 8:12. After all of this typology, after all this background, “Then spoke Jesus again unto them,” He spoke “unto them” and this time no longer the crowd, the crowd is no longer mentioned from verse 12, which substantiates our position that John 8:1-11 did in fact occur here chronologically because you notice in verses 1-2 Jesus has left, it’s one day after the last day of the feast, and so the feast has broken up and many of the crowd have gone home but they remember that great, great scene, and Jesus chooses after the candles are no longer lit to make this statement. He chooses a time when the moon is no longer coming up in the east when the sun is setting in the west. He chooses a time when the world has gone back to darkness, when there’s no longer that illuminating moon all night and there’s no longer those 180 foot tall lamps shining across the courtyard and down on the hill to the city of Jerusalem. Men are reminded that they live once again in a dark world; the darkness has come upon them again. Is 49:4-6 Light of the world is a Messianic claim. J8:32 substantiates this claim. True Christians are those who continually follow the light. 1J1 came from this episode. The light of life, the light given by life. Eternal Life gives moral judgment. In darkness there are no Divine norms or standards but other things to replace the Word of God. Those who follow Jesus will not walk in darkness but have the light given to them by eternal life.

NKJ 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

When we follow Christ, we walk/live in His presence, in the light where He is, we have fellowship/association/close relationship with Him, and His blood cleanses us from all sin, which we still have (1:8), so we learn from Him what is sin/all unrighteousness (1 John 5:17)/lawlessness (1 John 3:4), and we confess our sins, and He is faithful and righteous to forgive/pardon such [confessed] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (which is sin - sin we do not yet even know we have) (1:9).

This is the very dynamic relationship of following Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 5 explains our being "light in the Lord" and commands us to "walk as children of light" learning and proving what is pleasing to the Lord. It also commands us to be imitators of God as His beloved children, and speaks of not sharing relationship with sons of disobedience - so, obey God, which is to believe in Him and love Him.

All of this becomes discipleship instruction (following Christ) to learn from God what is sin/unrighteousness/lawlessness/disobedience/lack of faith/lack of love - confess it when we do it - let Him work it out of us - grow up to spiritual maturity and beyond and become more and more like Him. This is all part of our Salvation.
Thanks for finding this for me - very illuminating!
 
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Vanellus

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Another small thought. We talk about abiding in Christ or even abiding in God (in a spiritual sense) and walking in the light. But I can't recall anyone talk about walking in God. It's far more usual to talk about walking with God, But if you can abide in God surely you can walk in God?
 
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Davy

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1 Jn 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all b sin.

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

I've always found this passage hard to understand. It seems to be saying that if I sin I can't be walking in the light. But if I claim not to have sinned I'm lying. Now, like all Christians I sin so can any Christian claim truthfully to "walk in the light"?

Reading it more carefully in my quiet time this morning I came to this conclusion: that "walking in light" here is more about continual confession than being sinless. Note that Romans 6 makes the point that this is not a licence to sin so not "I can sin all I like as long as I confess". But who is there here who is "without sin"?

Note in verse 9 it explicitly states that it is "confessing sins" that leads to "forgiveness" and "purification from all unrighteousness" AND in verse 7 "walking in the light" leads to "purification from all sin".

Now sin (hamartia=missing the mark) and unrighteousness (adikia=opposite of (God's) justice) are not the same Greek words but they seem fairly close in meaning.

So the bottom line is don't let the feeling of guilt from sin prevent you from walking in God's light but rather be honest with God about your failings. The problems come when you try to pretend to God that you haven't sinned: God knows you better than that.

Yes, verse 9 is the answer, and it should be noted Lord Jesus gave us to ask forgiveness of our sins and of those who sin against us in the Prayer of Luke 11, showing us how to pray.

But men's leaven doctrine of 'once saved, always saved' often wrongly preaches that we have no need of later repentance of our sins after having believed on Jesus and been baptized. Apostle Paul taught our first believe on Christ is for the remission of sins that are past (Romans 3:25). It is that OSAS doctrine of man that is filling up a lot of the mega-churches with loads of money. Think about it, who wouldn't love the idea that once you believe and are baptized it's impossible for you to sin anymore, and thus never again need to repent?
 
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pescador

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Yes, verse 9 is the answer, and it should be noted Lord Jesus gave us to ask forgiveness of our sins and of those who sin against us in the Prayer of Luke 11, showing us how to pray.

But men's leaven doctrine of 'once saved, always saved' often wrongly preaches that we have no need of later repentance of our sins after having believed on Jesus and been baptized. Apostle Paul taught our first believe on Christ is for the remission of sins that are past (Romans 3:25). It is that OSAS doctrine of man that is filling up a lot of the mega-churches with loads of money. Think about it, who wouldn't love the idea that once you believe and are baptized it's impossible for you to sin anymore, and thus never again need to repent?

Why would John write "But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness" to believers? Christians' sins have already been forgiven, otherwise Jesus' sacrifice for all sins on the cross means nothing. The first part of John's letter was written to unbelievers. Just a few verses earlier (v5) he wrote, "Now this is the gospel message we have heard from him and announce to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all." He would not announce the gospel to people that had already heard it.

When "Lord Jesus gave us to ask forgiveness of our sins and of those who sin against us in the Prayer of Luke 11" he was speaking to people who weren't Christians. (They're were any yet.)

Finally, nobody is saying that "once you believe and are baptized it's impossible for you to sin anymore". The point is that our sins -- all sin -- has been forgiven because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. If and when you sin it is not counted against you if you have accepted Christ as your savior. What do you think "savior" means, if not that?
 
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Davy

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Some on the OSAS doctrine of man also try to say not all who hold that idea believe they don't still commit sins after having believed. Those are only trying to persuade others into that false doctrine which is not Christian doctrine from God's Word.

1 Tim 4:1
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
KJV


We are in those "latter times" now folks. Some have departed from the Faith with heeding seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils. I showed this before with Andrew Strorm's video Kundalini Warning (
).

In Luke 11, Christ's Apostles asked Lord Jesus how to pray. There our Lord Jesus gave them, and us, His recommended method of prayer. Within that prayer, Jesus told us to ask forgiveness of our sins, and also to ask forgiveness of those who sin against us. The 1 John 1 chapter emphasizes this point of asking Him forgiveness when we as His servants mess up and sin. That is specifically what the 1 John 1:9 verse is about.


So what is the 'Once Saved, Always Saved' movement really about?

It is about the devil trying to PREVENT our staying in our WALK with Lord Jesus by The Holy Spirit. It is about NOT asking Lord Jesus to forgive us when we slip up and sin DURING OUR WALK with Christ.

Lord Jesus showed us this difference of those who repent to Him, and those who do not, when He returns:

Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto Me, "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day," Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?"


23 And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."

KJV

Well now, HOW... will those who did all those things in Christ's name still be found having worked "iniquity" when He returns? Those are definitely believers on Jesus, so how is that possible He will tell them to get away from Him because of their working iniquity, and that especially since when they believed supposedly they didn't have sin anymore??? (at least, that's what they are told by the OSAS wolves in sheep's clothing.)

Somebody is telling a big fat LIE! And it ain't our Lord Jesus, nor me.
 
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pescador

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Some on the OSAS doctrine of man also try to say not all who hold that idea believe they don't still commit sins after having believed. Those are only trying to persuade others into that false doctrine which is not Christian doctrine from God's Word.

1 Tim 4:1
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
KJV


We are in those "latter times" now folks. Some have departed from the Faith with heeding seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils. I showed this before with Andrew Strorm's video Kundalini Warning (
).

In Luke 11, Christ's Apostles asked Lord Jesus how to pray. There our Lord Jesus gave them, and us, His recommended method of prayer. Within that prayer, Jesus told us to ask forgiveness of our sins, and also to ask forgiveness of those who sin against us. The 1 John 1 chapter emphasizes this point of asking Him forgiveness when we as His servants mess up and sin. That is specifically what the 1 John 1:9 verse is about.


So what is the 'Once Saved, Always Saved' movement really about?

It is about the devil trying to PREVENT our staying in our WALK with Lord Jesus by The Holy Spirit. It is about NOT asking Lord Jesus to forgive us when we slip up and sin DURING OUR WALK with Christ.

Lord Jesus showed us this difference of those who repent to Him, and those who do not, when He returns:

Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto Me, "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day," Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?"


23 And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."

KJV

Well now, HOW... will those who did all those things in Christ's name still be found having worked "iniquity" when He returns? Those are definitely believers on Jesus, so how is that possible He will tell them to get away from Him because of their working iniquity, and that especially since when they believed supposedly they didn't have sin anymore??? (at least, that's what they are told by the OSAS wolves in sheep's clothing.)

Somebody is telling a big fat LIE! And it ain't our Lord Jesus, nor me.

There is nothing in that section of the Bible that says anything about their believing that they didn't have sin any more. That is your (unscriptural) addition to what the Bible says. All this is saying is that prophesying, casting out devils, and doing "many wonderful works" are not the "works" that God wants people to do. He wants them to believe in the atoning work of His Son.

That has nothing to do with the OSAS doctrine, nor does it have to do with "walking in the light" (the subject of the OP)
 
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1 Jn 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all b sin.

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

I've always found this passage hard to understand. It seems to be saying that if I sin I can't be walking in the light. But if I claim not to have sinned I'm lying. Now, like all Christians I sin so can any Christian claim truthfully to "walk in the light"?

Reading it more carefully in my quiet time this morning I came to this conclusion: that "walking in light" here is more about continual confession than being sinless. Note that Romans 6 makes the point that this is not a licence to sin so not "I can sin all I like as long as I confess". But who is there here who is "without sin"?

Note in verse 9 it explicitly states that it is "confessing sins" that leads to "forgiveness" and "purification from all unrighteousness" AND in verse 7 "walking in the light" leads to "purification from all sin".

Now sin (hamartia=missing the mark) and unrighteousness (adikia=opposite of (God's) justice) are not the same Greek words but they seem fairly close in meaning.

So the bottom line is don't let the feeling of guilt from sin prevent you from walking in God's light but rather be honest with God about your failings. The problems come when you try to pretend to God that you haven't sinned: God knows you better than that.

I know some folks already mentioned this already.

But the light is God the Father (See: 1 John 1:5).
Walking in the light = Loving your brother (Which is based on the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11).

The verse is saying, if we walk in the light (love our brother as we abide in God the Father) as He (Jesus) is in the light (in God the Father), we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

Note: The fellowship mentioned in 1 John 1:7 is a repeat from verse 3 that says, “that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.”

Anyways, getting back to the heart of 1 John 1:7: Yes. We do have to abide in God and love our brother in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin (Salvation). Most think that all you have to do is believe in Jesus and you got the blood of Jesus on you. But the apostle John teaches that you need to walk in the light (love your brother while abiding in God) in order for the blood to cleanse you.

John says to, “sin not” (1 John 2:1), but if you happen to on rare occasion, we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1) whereby if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). Think about that. Confessing of sin is going to help us to be cleansed of unrighteousness. Now, the goal of the Christian is to overcome mortal sin or any serious sin that the Bible warns with condemnation or hellfire. So these are the sins a believer needs to focus on in confessing and forsaking. Non-mortal sins while they can be confessed do not condemn a believer. What would be a non-mortal sin? Jesus described to us the difference between mortal sins vs. non-mortal sins in Matthew 5:22.

“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court; and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother, ‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell.” (Matthew 5:22) (AMP).​

The words in blue above are non-mortal sins because they are punishment in earthly courts. The words in red above is a mortal sin because it is punishment in hellfire in the afterlife.

Now, does not 1 John 1:8 say that if we have no sin we deceive ourselves?

Well, what is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9) (Which is the proper way to deal with sin). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

Now, some folks might say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

So in conclusion: In 1 John 1:8, John is talking about a false gnostic belief that taught that sin is an illusion or non-existent. 1 John 1:7, 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 2:1, 1 John 2:3 is the proper medication to deal with a believer overcoming mortal sin (or serious sin) in their lives.

I hope this helps;
And may God bless you.
 
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Davy

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There is nothing in that section of the Bible that says anything about their believing that they didn't have sin any more. That is your (unscriptural) addition to what the Bible says. All this is saying is that prophesying, casting out devils, and doing "many wonderful works" are not the "works" that God wants people to do. He wants them to believe in the atoning work of His Son.

That has nothing to do with the OSAS doctrine, nor does it have to do with "walking in the light" (the subject of the OP)

Our first belief on Christ Jesus and baptism is for the remission of sins that are past (Romans 3:25). We still need to repent to Jesus about our sins we slip up and do after that. And that is what the 1 John 1 Chapter is about.

Those of Matthew 7 that did many works in Christ, but Jesus when He comes will tell them He never knew them, is about those who do NOT REPENT after having believed on Jesus Christ. That means... their sins AFTER they first believed on Him are STILL on the slate, not wiped clean by His Blood, and thus Jesus will accuse those of having worked iniquity like the Matthew 7:23 says.

So brethren, who are you going to listen to? Men's false doctrines that are against the Scripture evidence, or to Lord Jesus and His Apostles in His Word? Decide.
 
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Jaxxi

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1 Jn 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all b sin.

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

I've always found this passage hard to understand. It seems to be saying that if I sin I can't be walking in the light. But if I claim not to have sinned I'm lying. Now, like all Christians I sin so can any Christian claim truthfully to "walk in the light"?

Reading it more carefully in my quiet time this morning I came to this conclusion: that "walking in light" here is more about continual confession than being sinless. Note that Romans 6 makes the point that this is not a licence to sin so not "I can sin all I like as long as I confess". But who is there here who is "without sin"?

Note in verse 9 it explicitly states that it is "confessing sins" that leads to "forgiveness" and "purification from all unrighteousness" AND in verse 7 "walking in the light" leads to "purification from all sin".

Now sin (hamartia=missing the mark) and unrighteousness (adikia=opposite of (God's) justice) are not the same Greek words but they seem fairly close in meaning.

So the bottom line is don't let the feeling of guilt from sin prevent you from walking in God's light but rather be honest with God about your failings. The problems come when you try to pretend to God that you haven't sinned: God knows you better than that.
So is this a rhetorical question that you answered yourself or are we supposed to answer it?
 
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Vanellus

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Why would John write "But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness" to believers? Christians' sins have already been forgiven, otherwise Jesus' sacrifice for all sins on the cross means nothing. The first part of John's letter was written to unbelievers. Just a few verses earlier (v5) he wrote, "Now this is the gospel message we have heard from him and announce to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all." He would not announce the gospel to people that had already heard it.

When "Lord Jesus gave us to ask forgiveness of our sins and of those who sin against us in the Prayer of Luke 11" he was speaking to people who weren't Christians. (They're were any yet.)

Finally, nobody is saying that "once you believe and are baptized it's impossible for you to sin anymore". The point is that our sins -- all sin -- has been forgiven because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. If and when you sin it is not counted against you if you have accepted Christ as your savior. What do you think "savior" means, if not that?

I wouldn't describe OSAS as "leaven doctrine" as per Davy. However I can't agree that the "he first part of John's letter was written to unbelievers". It was only after the letter was first written that it became part of the NT. It is not unknown for churches to hold gospel meetings where most (if not all) the audience are Christians. Christians need to be constantly reminded of the gospel message, hence communion.

Why would the "you" of "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you" be any different from the children of "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin"?

Note that John is talking here about "fellowship" with God, not justification per se. The "confess" of 1:9 is present subjunctive active so describes an ongoing process not a once for all conversion. Whereas in a verse like Eph 2:8 the tense of "saved" is perfect i.e. a completed action. Once you are saved by God you are saved for good and all.

Interestingly Paul makes little use of this word for forgiveness (= putting away) in terms of salvation with only one usage (Rom 4:7) which is an OT quote and is aorist (single past action).
 
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Vanellus

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I think it means this. In verse 6 where is states, "walk in darkness" that's different then somebody who periodically has a stumble into sin. Walking in darkness seems like a committed pattern of lifestyle to stay that way while all the time claiming one is walking in the light....A Christian in good standing with the Lord. (or so they mistakenly think they are)

Think of it as one who gossips or continually says unloving things about a person speaking guile. I think there's a big difference between one saying something wrong and their spirit knows immediately they did wrong and they feel remorse and repent as compared to one who just carries on....every hour of the day without hesitation always walking out of LOVE. The one is walking, that is walking in darkness....that other isn't necessarily.

This would mean the one who falls into a sin or stumbles into it in a moment of weakness is still in God's view walking in the light because they deal with it right away asking God's forgiveness. No it doesn't mean one should think God will forgive me any way and go ahead and sin BUT God does know we might still yield to some sin but again God knows our heart really wants get out of that sin and walk in victory.

The person who "walks in darkness" just walks in it as a continual pattern....choosing to feel no remorse.....carrying on their lives that they don't need to repent. It'd be like a businessman being dishonest with customers everyday with not even the slightest notion that they're going to change. God says NO...you're walking in darkness the walking being a continual pattern never ending.

And now verse 7 if we walk in the light as he's in the light we have fellowship with God and he forgives and cleanses us of our sin. So walking in the light is the thing your sincere heart is committed to do, doesn't mean you'll never fail. Walking in darkness really means you're committed to that darkness and such a one won't entertain the notion they need to change.

Now verse 8 goes back really and is referring to the one who is committed to walking in darkness without feeling they need to repent....."If we claim to be without sin" that is the one embraces the walking in darkness as a way of life (not talking about the one who stumbles an odd time) If the committed to darkness one claims to be without sin they're deceiving themselves and the truth is not in them. You see if the truth was in them they'd feel convicted they'd feel that nudge that they need to change.

Very 9 gives such a one a hope....If you're in that situation he's telling them they should feel remorse about it....therefore get out of that walking in darkness and stop seeking to justify it.....and if you now confess your sins he's faithful and just to forgive and cleanse you.......BUT make an about face. TURN.

Verse 10 back again, If we claim to be without sin....that is I'm OK I don't need to repent (while all the time they're living a walking in darkness lifestyle) well they're making God out to be a liar, that is God has said some and various things are sin and the walking in darkness person is saying that they're not. That'd be the same as saying God you're untrue. He therefore concludes again the WORD is not in such a one.

So again the lesson....if you're in denial about what sin is and you really should know better then change. Don't kid yourself or deceive yourself. And if you did stumble in a moments weakness you're still walking in the LIGHT in that you're immediately dealing with the sin and being cleansed. By willing to deal with your sin you're still deemed as one walking in the light. You're heart is committed to the LIGHT and not darkness.

Thanks for this: it was very clear and helpful - pastoral.
This puts me in mind of the parable of the two men who went to pray in the temple but only one was justified.
 
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Danthemailman

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1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness, hates his brother" is connected to "children of the devil."
 
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Vanellus

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Some on the OSAS doctrine of man also try to say not all who hold that idea believe they don't still commit sins after having believed. Those are only trying to persuade others into that false doctrine which is not Christian doctrine from God's Word.

1 Tim 4:1
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
KJV


We are in those "latter times" now folks. Some have departed from the Faith with heeding seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils. I showed this before with Andrew Strorm's video Kundalini Warning (
).

In Luke 11, Christ's Apostles asked Lord Jesus how to pray. There our Lord Jesus gave them, and us, His recommended method of prayer. Within that prayer, Jesus told us to ask forgiveness of our sins, and also to ask forgiveness of those who sin against us. The 1 John 1 chapter emphasizes this point of asking Him forgiveness when we as His servants mess up and sin. That is specifically what the 1 John 1:9 verse is about.


So what is the 'Once Saved, Always Saved' movement really about?

It is about the devil trying to PREVENT our staying in our WALK with Lord Jesus by The Holy Spirit. It is about NOT asking Lord Jesus to forgive us when we slip up and sin DURING OUR WALK with Christ.

Lord Jesus showed us this difference of those who repent to Him, and those who do not, when He returns:

Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto Me, "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day," Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?"


23 And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."

KJV

Well now, HOW... will those who did all those things in Christ's name still be found having worked "iniquity" when He returns? Those are definitely believers on Jesus, so how is that possible He will tell them to get away from Him because of their working iniquity, and that especially since when they believed supposedly they didn't have sin anymore??? (at least, that's what they are told by the OSAS wolves in sheep's clothing.)

Somebody is telling a big fat LIE! And it ain't our Lord Jesus, nor me.

Your assertion "Those are definitely believers on Jesus" and Jesus saying "I never knew" them are contradictions.
 
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Davy

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Your assertion "Those are definitely believers on Jesus" and Jesus saying "I never knew" them are contradictions.

Oh, those certainly are... believers on Christ Jesus. It's silly to think otherwise, because just who else would be casting out demons in Christ's Name, prophesy (teach) in Christ's Name, and done many wonderful works in Christ's Name??? Duh!

What you are suggesting with what He will say to those at His return, is that He would say that only to non-believers. Well, I guess you missed this then...

Matt 25:14-15
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
KJV

...
Matt 25:30
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV
 
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2BeholdHisGlory

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Yeah, we do have Paul saying, "let every one that nameth the name of the Christ
to depart from inquity" just as we also have Jesus saying to them (that name his name) who haven't, "I never knew you, depart from me ye that work iniquity"
 
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Vanellus

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Oh, those certainly are... believers on Christ Jesus. It's silly to think otherwise, because just who else would be casting out demons in Christ's Name, prophesy (teach) in Christ's Name, and done many wonderful works in Christ's Name??? Duh!

What you are suggesting with what He will say to those at His return, is that He would say that only to non-believers. Well, I guess you missed this then...

Matt 25:14-15
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
KJV

...
Matt 25:30
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

That's a parable. It doesn't mean the "servants" are understood to be Christians!
It's a story about everyday life in the NT era that has a message FOR Christians. It doesn't have to be about Christians.

There were Jewish exorcists casting out demons in Jesus' name:

Matthew 12:27/Luke 11:19 alludes to Jewish exorcists; Mark 9:38f tells of an exorcist who used Jesus' name (a practice to which Jesus apparently did not object); and Acts 19:13-19 relates the fascinating account of the itinerant Jewish exorcists, the seven sons of a Jewish high-priest named Sceva. For the first Christians to present Jesus as an exorcist, therefore, would have raised no eyebrows among his hearers. The exorcist, not least the Jewish exorcist, was a familiar figure in the ancient world.

from https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/churchman/094-03_210.pdf


Jesus' immediate audience were first century Jews not 21st century Christians.
 
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