What is up with liberalism and universalism?

[seekingpurity047]

The topic pretty much stands itself out. I want to understand where these ideas come from. Surely, Paul and Jesus were NOT universalists, and surely they were not liberals either. I'm afraid that this forum has made me so sad and upset... It's upsetting to see what is happening on this website. The liberal and universalist christians who forge God into what THEY want, and not into the only God who actually is.

What are your thoughts on this?

Randy

 

[reformedfan]

it is a logical outgrowth of true Arminianism, i've always thought. If Jesus died for everybody, then surely there is no longer a need for hell, right?

Gotta admire such unflinching refusal to water down their funny doctrine in their extrapolation of it to the furthest & most logical degree.

 

[Knight]

it is a logical outgrowth of true Arminianism, i've always thought. If Jesus died for everybody, then surely there is no longer a need for hell, right?

Gotta admire such unflinching refusal to water down their funny doctrine in their extrapolation of it to the furthest & most logical degree.

Not necessarily.

Arminianism also leads to strict legalism. After all if it is your choice to believe then you can logically choose again to regect that belief. That being the case, you had better make sure you do things right and do the right things....

With regard to the spread of liberalism and universalism; what is being seen here is only a sampling of what is available in "mainstream" Christianity today. It's also an natural outgrowth of the preaching of the word being subjugated to the flavor of the month mentality.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Is it me or does it seem that liberalism is taking a post-modern approach to scripture, if you know what i mean? As in like, 'Scripture can mean what you want it to mean' so like... basically saying that paul had no intention in what he meant when he was writing romans or 1 corinthians. Like... how can post-modernism coincide with Christianity? For, didn't Jesus say "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life, nobody comes to the Father except by me." (John 14:6).

Randy

 

[Knight]

Is it me or does it seem that liberalism is taking a post-modern approach to scripture, if you know what i mean? As in like, 'Scripture can mean what you want it to mean' so like... basically saying that paul had no intention in what he meant when he was writing romans or 1 corinthians. Like... how can post-modernism coincide with Christianity? For, didn't Jesus say "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life, nobody comes to the Father except by me." (John 14:6).

Randy

In the question you will find the answer.

 

[seekingpurity047]

So, liberalism does put post modernism with scripture?

 

[Antman_05]

Liberal and Universalist are able to find scripture to back themselfs up just they don't use it in context. Let me give you an example:;

(Act 2:21 ESV) And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'

(Rom 14:11 ESV) for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

So these scriptures out of context show that all will be saved not matter what, as we all should know this is WRONG and UNCHRISTIAN.

 

[JJB]

I needed to see this thread today. Like seekingpurity, there are days when I am sooo grieved by what people are espousing. My feelings run the gamut:



It forces me to my knees.

also makes me question the top slogan of the site: Something about uniting all Christians as one body....... should be "fully revealing all skeletons in the closets of Christianity."

 

[erin74]

I think liberalism puts reason before scripture, as a higher authority.

So if there is some scripture that is a bit tricky reason it away in some way and cling to the ones that seem easier to believe.

I also think that liberalism and universalism are born out of 'niceness'. The whole secular concept of tolerance has had not such a good impact on theology, as people look to tolerance and reason first and the bible second.

they tell the world what their itching ears want to hear

 

[Received]

Surely, Paul and Jesus were NOT universalists, and surely they were not liberals either. I'm afraid that this forum has made me so sad and upset... It's upsetting to see what is happening on this website. The liberal and universalist christians who forge God into what THEY want, and not into the only God who actually is.

Surely, universalists and liberals don't see it this way, and therefore conclude this exactly in the opposite way that you have. Have you ever read Universalist literature? I'm sure if you did, in an open-minded sense, you would find how easy it is to consider their doctrine something acceptable.

What causes me discontent is not liberals or universalists, but liberals or universalists who emphasize the lack of accountability one has before God, as well as one's capacity to enjoy eternal life in the present (John 17:3), and therefore put off salvation into something that is entirely after death, therefore everyone is essentially "saved" because all will be saved, and salvation refers only to after life.

No. Salvation is within reach now. Salvation, from the Latin, literally meaning "wholeness" or "healing". Any universalist or liberal who denies this makes Christianity a pointless endeavor, makes relation to God something entirely futile. Jesus came to emphasize the importance of the present as well as the future, in a way emphasized the future through the importance of the present. And liberals and universalists are not exclusively those who uphold this fault. Not by far. Most of Christendom does. Good universalists will try to find a way to relate the importance of the present and its relation to salvation. And are there universalists of this sort? Why, certainly. Universalists of this sort are as much "orthodox" as "orthodox" can get, save a point that deviates on eschatology.

 

[ScottishJohn]

I think we get too caught up on putting labels on everyone. I suppose plenty of people on this board would consider me a liberal, many liberals would see me as conservative. The point is that many people on all sides of the spectrum have and still do use scripture to their own ends. I find the polarisation between Christians on this board the most disturbing thing of all.

Just as someone has already pointed out - perhaps some liberals are too tolerant, or too interested in reason. Just so. Other Christians show themselves to be intolerant and devoid of reason. So as usual somewhere in between the two extremes lie the truth.

As for me I firmly believe that in many senses Jesus WAS a liberal - He turned the accepted teaching on its head - he changed the world - he challenged the establishment - liberated us from slavery to sin. He was in no way conservative in his attitudes to the poor, to lepers, to women, to authority and religious power.

 

[edie19]

Is it me or does it seem that liberalism is taking a post-modern approach to scripture, if you know what i mean? As in like, 'Scripture can mean what you want it to mean' so like... basically saying that paul had no intention in what he meant when he was writing romans or 1 corinthians. Like... how can post-modernism coincide with Christianity? For, didn't Jesus say "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life, nobody comes to the Father except by me." (John 14:6).Randy

I hear you on this one. I've been to multiple Bible studies where the participants say, 'What this passage is saying to me' or 'I think this is saying'

We've become really good at taking Scripture out of context and reducing Christianity to "feelings and experiences" rather than facts.

 

[edie19]

As for me I firmly believe that in many senses Jesus WAS a liberal - He turned the accepted teaching on its head - he changed the world - he challenged the establishment - liberated us from slavery to sin. He was in no way conservative in his attitudes to the poor, to lepers, to women, to authority and religious power.

I've believed for years that Jesus was the original civil rights worker. In this, as in everything else, He is the perfect example.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I hear you on this one. I've been to multiple Bible studies where the participants say, 'What this passage is saying to me' or 'I think this is saying'

We've become really good at taking Scripture out of context and reducing Christianity to "feelings and experiences" rather than facts.

It's annoying, isn't it? This is a perfect example of "solo Scriptura", the idea that the only authorities for interpreting the Bible are me, myself, and I. I've been to a Bible study where people actually got mad at me for deferring to biblical commentaries and church precedent (and once, even other passages of Scripture) on certain matters when the leader asked, "what is this passage saying to you?"

 

[edie19]

"solo Scriptura"

I can't believe I've never heard that term before. I'm going to remember it (can't wait to use it at church)

 

[erin74]

It all comes down to consumerism - we are so used to looking for things for ourselves, and are so encouraged to look after number one, that we jump to looking at what the bible has for ME, and for that matter what church does for ME. If it's not doing it for ME, then I'll just leave and go and find another one that suits ME better.

ok.... getting carried away - sorry

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

It all comes down to consumerism - we are so used to looking for things for ourselves, and are so encouraged to look after number one, that we jump to looking at what the bible has for ME, and for that matter what church does for ME. If it's not doing it for ME, then I'll just leave and go and find another one that suits ME better.

ok.... getting carried away - sorry

Don't apologize. I agree, and it's a problem we moderns must work through, or we're in trouble.

 

[edie19]

It all comes down to consumerism - we are so used to looking for things for ourselves, and are so encouraged to look after number one, that we jump to looking at what the bible has for ME, and for that matter what church does for ME. If it's not doing it for ME, then I'll just leave and go and find another one that suits ME better.

ok.... getting carried away - sorry

No apology needed

Don't even get me started on the entire "churches marketing God" concept - talk about getting carried away