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What is Truth?

jay17

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It is unclear to me what you actually wish to discuss.
You start off asking "What is truth?"...then express here...
Years ago when reading Q. 16 in the Summa I hit on Aquinas’ quote of Avicenna's (Metaph. viii, 6), "The truth of each thing is a property of the essence which is immutably attached to it." This simple sentence struck me as a better explanation of truth than others because it seemed to play out more smoothly both in real life events and as a metaphysical prelude to understanding the Bible.
...what you regard as the answer you like the most.
You then emphasis this by expressing you believe\perceive\calculate that Avicenna's interpretation is correct or more correct, and that the other two should be modified to be the same, and why you would want this is an issue unto itself.
Both Aquinas and Augustine’s versions of truth need to be modified to Avicenna’s to more closely correspond to how existence works imo.
...thus it seems to me you have your answer to the thread question, so no need for others to share their thoughts about it.

As truth = perfection, falsity = imperfection.
I would like to see your calculations of how you reached these conclusions.

Aquinas’ privation isn’t sufficient to explain evil in itself, though it describes an aspect of it. I think the starting point above goes much further in explaining how evil operates, though obviously more information is needed to properly flesh out the idea. But enough for starters.
Now you are going away from the thread topic and are talking about 'evil', and i don't see what 'evil' has to do with defining truth.

I propose that starting from Avicenna’s simple proposition life unfolds in ways that seem to correspond to what we would expect it to be if true. Where and why does this fail?
What you would expect, not we.
As to your last question, i have no idea what your point is, so i can't offer an answer.
 
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Assuming the view of truth presented in the op and assuming there exists in biological entities a “life force” I’ll call spirit, it seems justified to make a distinction of the appearance of what I’ll call the soul or intellect in humans as, at minimum, a higher quantity or quality of spirit than in other life forms (though seemingly identical in kind) by virtue of our capacities of abstraction and moral conception. A thought experiment I use to illustrate both the role of different levels of spiritual force or content (or both) and the role value conflict plays in our observations of its effects goes like this:

You are handed a heavy sledge hammer. Five items are laid out in front of you. Observe your own reaction as you’re instructed to strike each item in proper order as hard as you can:

1. Boulder
2. Potted plant
3. Ant hill swarming with ants
4. Baby seal
5. Human infant

Most should observe an increase in ‘moral pressure’ with each item, and only a severely defective intellect could imagine carrying out item 5.

In the analysis of truth presented in the op, “morality” is just the word or concept that describes the pressure experienced in the mind by information of a reasonably true mind encountering prescriptive false information, or conversely a falsified mind encountering prescriptive truth. The fact that pressure is felt by degrees as each biological entity is struck in the thought experiment suggests vitality is qualitative or quantitative or both. That we distinguish between a wide range of goods and evils suggests this vitality or spirit is composite, a diversity. (This state of spiritual multiplicity is confirmed in the metaphors of Scripture, but this is another thread in a different location.) A noticeable difference should have been experienced between striking the boulder and the other four items. There should have been little or no sensation in striking the rock because truth in inanimate things is inert by nature. This peculiarity was noted by Mortimer Adler in his Ten Philosophical Mistakes (1985):

"In Book VI of his Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle, clearly cognizant of what he himself had said about the character of descriptive truth, declared that what he called practical judgments (i.e., prescriptive or normative judgments with respect to action) had truth of a different sort. Later philosophers, except for Aristotle's medieval disciples, have shown no awareness whatsoever of this brief but crucially important passage in his writings."

The thought experiment above suggests that Adler’s assessment of this distinction as “crucially important” was correct; truth common to inorganic matter is static and neutral (which makes it difficult to conceive of), truth that pertains to life-endued entities is far more dynamic and vigorous. The admittance of falsity into non-organic circumstances creates only a mild tension. The notions that 2+2=5 or the most common element in the universe is radon only produce mild tensions in the mind until they are corrected. Truth in living things produce a much more dynamic resistance when they are falsified. The tendency to lie, even when faced with evidence of wrongdoing, is common to humans. We hate the light of truth, and prescriptive truth shines a harsh light on our wrongdoings.

We feel Indignation in observing (or experiencing) an injustice. These are examples of prescriptive truth’s resistance to the false. They’re value-related forces, effects experienced in intellects of spiritual causes. Secular society studies behavioral psychology based on a largely materialistic approach, but this is only the study of the effects of true-false interactions.

Based on assumptions that Christian doctrinal concepts are generally true, that God exists, that He is in essence pure Truth and reveals Himself subjectively through intuition and objectively through revealed texts of the Christian Scriptures, the view of truth presented here finds not only consistent expression in experience, but vigorous agreement with the principles of the Bible. One important harmonization is in John 3:19-21:

"And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

This short passage identifies the power produced when prescriptive truth and falsity collide. In fact, the words “truth” and “falsity” can replace the terms “light” and “darkness” in the passage above (and so throughout both Testaments for similar terms) with little or no loss in meaning. When this substitution is made the principles change from emotional teachings to technical. Technically, it seems reasonable given the true-false dynamic that a soul falsified will 1) become opposed to truth in proportion to its falsification, and 2) acquire prescriptive dispositions and tend to substitute true beliefs for false. Children from dysfunctional backgrounds who begin life in an innocent state gain inclinations (become more readily falsified by elements in their surroundings) to dissolute behavior. Jesus’ death is the Bible’s prime example of prescriptive truth’s “stimulus-response” mechanism. He was plotted against and put to death for telling His detractors truths their souls were too falsified to “hear”. I’m sure He knew exactly what He was doing and where His actions would lead. He was showing mankind what lies inside us all and our real relationship with truth.

One dynamic of falsification of the soul is that the increase of false elements within a multiplicity of true would lead to a sort of “staining”, hampering ability to understand prescriptive propositions, something similar to the way black dots used to be arranged on white newspaper to form shades of gray in pictures. In the case of the soul, this shading could play a major role in development of negative character traits, learning disabilities, deficiencies in logical processing (cognitive bias), etc. But the vigorous force produced in intellectual operation associated with moral reasoning in the juxtaposition of true and false information are union and resistance. How do predominantly falsified minds (with respect to any particular moral idea) react to true prescriptive information compared to a predominantly true mind to the same idea?

I don’t know how to do formal logic so I made up my own to illustrate this point.

Agent+ a sufficiently true mind with respect to a particular prescriptive proposal
Agent- a sufficiently falsified mind with respect to a particular prescriptive proposal
P+ a true prescriptive proposal
P- a false prescriptive proposal
U union/unite
R resistance/resist
Tev seek true evidence in support of a particular belief

Given the above, using the formula: Mind—encounters—reacts—is motivated to—in support of:

Agent+ --P- —R—Tev –against P-
Agent+ --P+ —U—Tev—for P+
Agent- --P- —U—Tev—for P-
Agent- --P+ —R—Tev—against P+

The important point as I see it is that in all cases both falsified and true agents seek truth-centric propositions in the pursuit of evidence to support their beliefs. It makes no sense to seek false information to “prove” the truth of a belief. Truth is always and ever the guiding authority, but notice the sufficiently falsified agent uses the same truth-centric method to support a falsehood as the sufficiently true agent does to support a truth. Thus, if God exists the atheist who seeks evidence for the idea that God does not exist seeks true statements to support a falsehood. Because we’re value-fragmented, no individual holds completely true or false beliefs. The Christian motivated by resistance to a truth he’s not adequately truth-oriented to hear will support a falsehood in his doctrine also by seeking true evidence to support that falsehood and stands in some degree of culpability (Isa 5:20) for fostering that false belief. Resistance to and uniting with certain truths exists in all, as Jesus taught metaphorically in Mat 12:35 where the good man and evil man are one and the same person, and the treasure proceeds from the same mind, truth creating good treasure, the false creating evil. ’m accused of making ‘sweeping generalizations’ about atheists, but value fragmentation has universal applications and universal application begets true generalizations, i.e., All redheads are imperfect human beings and sinners. Truth’s dynamics are distributed throughout humanity without respect to acceptance or rejection of religion in our worldviews.

Actually, if these concepts and their relationships are valid they leave the largest question essentially unanswered: where or what is the source of truth? What side does truth land on? In other words, if the relationships between truth and a fragmentally falsified existence play out anything like the model identified here, it’s theoretically possible that atheism is in possession of the truth that God does not exist, that theism is based on inherited intellectual and psychological weakness which atheists have risen above and that all the energy that has gone into formulating philosophies and world views contrary to those supporting supernatural systems of belief are in fact the real advocates of truth.

However, I see it as obvious and compelling that this view of truth harmonizes not only with the ideals of theism, but is expressed with particular clarity in the Christian Bible and in its paradigm.
 
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quatona

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Is it a true statement to say "unicorns have horns"?
No, it isn´t. True Unicorns don´t have horns. The idea that unicorns have horns is owed to the limited and flawed human understanding.

If yes, how does "truth" substance attach itself to an unreal and imaginary concept?
You are close to blaspheming Unicorns here.

But to answer your question anyway:
In my understanding "truth" can only be had from within and with reference to a (explicit or implicit) conceptual frame of reference, anyway. Oftentimes it turns out to be unfortunate that we tend to be silent about this frame of reference for brevity´s sake. Being explicit about it removes your problem.

If no, then what do you define as a unicorn,
A Unicorn is eternal, holy and spirtual.
because my concept of a unicorn has a horn.
None of my concepts has a horn. ;)

On a sidenote: The wording "concept of..." seems to be loaded, and not quite compatible with your philosophical stance (at least it isn´t with mine). If we accept that concepts do not necessarily point to existing objects - where do they point, what are they concepts of?
 
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Colter

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"Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality. Truth exists only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God. You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. When you undertake the human formulation of divine truth, it speedily dies. Post-mortem salvage of imprisoned truth, even at best, can eventuate only in the realization of a peculiar form of intellectualized glorified wisdom. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind." Urantia Book 1955
 
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Is it a true statement to say "unicorns have horns"?
Does the statement correspond to an instance of unicorn?

If yes, how does "truth" substance attach itself to an unreal and imaginary concept?
I don't know what you mean by 'truth substance'. Truth is a quality, it's an essence.

In his Introduction to Philosophical Problems, Joseph Margolis, speaking to the difference between "...the nature of numbers and...of fictions and the nature of perceptual objects and the like", writes, "...where we hold that we may think of, or consider, or admit, or refer to, or speak about, whatever we may (in purely grammatical terms) make predications of, we are referring to what "exists1"—which does not, as such, commit us to holding that what we refer to exists in the actual or real world ("exists2", or "really" or "actually exists")."

We’re obligated by common sense to observe differences between what exists1 and what exists2, but the common denominator that remains after existence2 crowds existence1 out of the room in secular thinking is that existence1 is still able to disclose meaning, to animate or inspire and present content to an apprehending intellect. This, in maybe its purest form, is information. Information is what lies at the far end of the discussion of intentionality, looking back at the mind regarding it. Both concepts and percepts inform minds and impart meaning. Anything that imparts meaning to the mind has real existence of some sort.

Figments of the imagination occupy existence1. They are constructs of intellects using as their building materials content from existence. Unicorn is comprised of horse, horn and in some cases, magical powers. These materials are drawn from material and spiritual realities. We can’t construct things from nothing, only from something.

The truth of unicorns is the same as the example I gave earlier of the truth existing in a structure. Truth in material things is traced back to the designer. If what we believe to be as the facts of unicorn correspond to its original design and evidenced in instances of particular unicorns (in drawings, movies, books, stuffed toys, etc.), then we’ve found its truth.
 
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In my understanding "truth" can only be had from within and with reference to a (explicit or implicit) conceptual frame of reference, anyway. Oftentimes it turns out to be unfortunate that we tend to be silent about this frame of reference for brevity´s sake. Being explicit about it removes your problem.
What are your motives for understanding that truth "can only be had from within"?
 
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"Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality. Truth exists only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God. You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. When you undertake the human formulation of divine truth, it speedily dies. Post-mortem salvage of imprisoned truth, even at best, can eventuate only in the realization of a peculiar form of intellectualized glorified wisdom. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind." Urantia Book 1955
The reason I give little attention to claims like this is when I weigh concepts like this and the concepts of the Bible with reality, those of the Bible ring true with everyday life. Truth is the two-edged sword in Christ's mouth, the sword all falsified humans hate (religious and non-religious alike). It's been said that Christianity is unique in that of all the world's religions it's the only one in which God reaches down to man while all others are based on man reaching up to God.

An accurate understanding of truth shows that our actual relationship to Truth (God) authenticates the Bible and dismisses other accounts as manmade. Any view of man with autonomy enough to approach God on his own is necessarily false. Why would a human soul stained with fragmental falsity approach pure Truth, which is a roaring Lake of Fire to all things false? This would be like someone running happily into a crackling bonfire to be roasted alive. This is why we need to be saved and explains what we're being saved from. This principle is taught in the Bible, ridiculed by the ungodly and becoming more hidden from religious man's view every day.
 
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Colter

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The reason I give little attention to claims like this is when I weigh concepts like this and the concepts of the Bible with reality, those of the Bible ring true with everyday life. Truth is the two-edged sword in Christ's mouth, the sword all falsified humans hate (religious and non-religious alike). It's been said that Christianity is unique in that of all the world's religions it's the only one in which God reaches down to man while all others are based on man reaching up to God.

An accurate understanding of truth shows that our actual relationship to Truth (God) authenticates the Bible and dismisses other accounts as manmade. Any view of man with autonomy enough to approach God on his own is necessarily false. Why would a human soul stained with fragmental falsity approach pure Truth, which is a roaring Lake of Fire to all things false? This would be like someone running happily into a crackling bonfire to be roasted alive. This is why we need to be saved and explains what we're being saved from. This principle is taught in the Bible, ridiculed by the ungodly and becoming more hidden from religious man's view every day.


God is truth, and Truth is self authenticating. The man made Bible books have no monopoly on truth.
 
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quatona

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What are your motives for understanding that truth "can only be had from within"?
Sorry, the structure of my sentence may have been not quite clear. It was meant to say "can only be had from within [...] a certain frame of reference".
Again, sorry for the confusion.
 
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Colter

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What does it mean to you that Truth is 'self authenticating'? Do you reject the Bible's authenticity because it doesn't seem true to you?

God is truth, living truth. Said Jesus "I am the way, the truth and the life." The current Bible is of coarse 66 books of varying quality and acuracy written by holy men of the preist class. Some secular history books mentioned by Bible books disappeared, all that remains are the phsudobiographical stories written for the child like mind of Bronze Age sheep herders. O we have to use our judgment to sort out the spiritual truths from other stuff.
 
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GrowingSmaller

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Truth can be seen as correspondence between statement and fact, or the "disclosure" or "unconcealment" of the world and its facts prior to any conceptual or linguistic debates about it. I think that religious experience is based in how we learn to conceive of God, but there is also the disclosure of the theological phenomenon, in the numenous, the I-thou experience etc.

This has a truth of its own, just as a rose may be yellow etc.

The eskimos learn to differentiate between 20 or so shades of white IIRC reading.

Likewise a "spiritual person" at prayer will have a much more intricate religious sensitivity than a tough minded atheist. Something that is perhaps untranslatable, except to like minded friends.
 
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Abishai100

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Mythos Markings

How much can we understand about perception and verifiability from the practice of making comparative analyses?

For example, if I read "Paradise Lost" (John Milton) and no other religion-based work of literature, I may draw some ideas about the qualities of religious experience, but if I also read "The Inferno" (Dante), I can draw interesting comparisons of the differences in religious experience gained from each work of literature.

The Bible talks about the harlot of Babylon as a woman of mystery. There are many popular culture images/avatars of women in ecstasy, euphoria, or labor. The half-cat, half-woman fictional warrior-woman Cheetara, for example, from the animated American series "ThunderCats" (Rankin/Bass Productions) represents a general fascination with speciation and feminine mobility as well as feminine mystique.

We could perhaps learn about the intricacies of knowledge and myth from a comparative analysis of world folklore.

Anthropologists believe this is a very pragmatic approach to dissecting abstract ideas about truth (or scholarship).



:crosseo:

Cheetara (ThunderCats)

ct.jpg
 
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