What is this saying?

[Torah]

Gen 3: 16
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

 

[StaySalty]

Gen 3: 16
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

I think it is saying that women will desire marriage and the husband will be the head of the household.

 

[bliz]

The verse is when God is stating the fallout frm the sin of Adam and Eve. There are consequences to their sin, and God is spelling out those consequences, also called "The Curse". So, husbands ruling over wives is part of The Curse, not part of God's original, perfect plan for humans.

With the death of Jesus, The Curse is lifted for those who accept the blood of Christ as atonement for their sins, Christians. Christians do not live under The Curse - we have life, not death.

Becasue the Curse has been lifted, women are also permitted to make efforts to ease the pain of childbearing. (It has been awhile since the church executed women for attempting to minimize birthing pains... ) and men do not have to make their living by the sweat of their brows as farmers, either.

To argue that this verse means that women are to be ruled over by their husbands is to argue that the Curse has not been removed, or that it has been partially removed.

 

[Torah]

Becasue the Curse has been lifted, women are also permitted to make efforts to ease the pain of childbearing. (It has been awhile since the church executed women for attempting to minimize birthing pains... )

With all due respect Ma'am I don’t know how many children you may have had. But I can say! I have delivered all 5 of my children. And there was pain. Even with the local shot to num the area. And as for the church-executing women for attempting to minimize birthing pains... I know nothing of. But before and after this time period there is still childbearing pain.

and men do not have to make their living by the sweat of their brows as farmers, either.

I live in the country and the food that we all eat has been brought to our tables by the sweat of the brows. From the farmer, to the packaging plant, to the supermarket , And I know what it is like to work in the sun and sweat from my brow to pay for that food.

 

[barefeetonholyground]

It's saying that women will desire the headship in the family position.

 

[bliz]

Becasue the Curse has been lifted, women are also permitted to make efforts to ease the pain of childbearing. (It has been awhile since the church executed women for attempting to minimize birthing pains... )

With all due respect Ma'am I don’t know how many children you may have had. But I can say! I have delivered all 5 of my children. And there was pain. Even with the local shot to num the area. And as for the church-executing women for attempting to minimize birthing pains... I know nothing of. But before and after this time period there is still childbearing pain.

and men do not have to make their living by the sweat of their brows as farmers, either.

I live in the country and the food that we all eat has been brought to our tables by the sweat of the brows. From the farmer, to the packaging plant, to the supermarket , And I know what it is like to work in the sun and sweat from my brow to pay for that food.

You have misunderstood me.

The person who posted ahead of me was declaring that, based on the curse, women are to be ruled over by their husbands, etc. Which in essence is saying that the implications of the curse are still in effect. Many people take that position about women and their relationship to men. However, hardly anyone today expects women to give birth without any pain medication becasue "giving birth in pain is part of the curse". (In the past the church has taken such a position, and some women have been executed for trying to minimize pain in childbirth based on this passage.)

If the curse is still in effect, every man must work on food production. We all greatly benifit from those who do work in food production, but no one expects all men to have agricultural occupations even though the curse details that men shall work hard raising food. Does anyone believe that men should not be accountants or college professors or engineers?

Those who argue that, based on the Genesis passage, women are to be ruled by their husbands conveninetly ignore other parts of the same passage. I was trying to point that out... apparently not very well.

 

[Torah]

I would like to ask you another question pleas. I am trying to understand you correctly.
If I understand you correctly, you’re saying. After Jesus was nailed to the cross the curse for men to work hard raising food. Is no longer in effect?
My question is this. Before Jesus came Man worked. No not as accountants or college professors or engineers? But as carpenters, tanners, fishermen, blacksmith, And yes some accountants for the rich mans storage, etc. And people would go to the market to buy/trade for food from the farmer. And just as today man still has to buy from the farmer who by the sweat of his brow brings forth food.

And woman has from the beginning has to have hard labor. Women have been taking medication for thousands of years. Our medication’s today come from plants and herbs
And woman has been taking them for a very long time to ease the pain of childbirth.


However, hardly anyone today {expects) women to give birth without any pain medication because "giving birth in pain is part of the curse". And the pain is still there! Weather there is medication or no medication there is still birth pains.

 

[bliz]

The effects of the curse and not fully gone and will not be until Jesus comes again. We live in a fallen world and our task is to work toward the redemption of the world, even as we know we will never fully accomplish that.

In Eden, food grew freely and Adam and Eve had to do no other work than to pick it up and eat it. In order for there to be sufficent food, people have to labor to produce it and that has not changed. But no one that I know of reads those verses in Genesis to mean that man should only work on food production. So, why do we read the verse about women being ruled over by man and insist that women should be ruled over by man?

The curse brought seperation from God and death. The only way to escape eternal death is to meet all of the laws of the Old Testement - which is quite a task, I'm sure you'll agree. Jewish scholars spend much of their time arguing over exactly what the laws are and how to comply with them in the modern world. But Jesus came and died in the place of all humans. Just as the lamb could be sacrificed for sins, Jesus is the pure and perfect lamb sacrificed for our sins. We need only accept that He made the sacrifice in our place and we will have eternal life with God.

We will still live with some of the effects of the Fall here on earth... (I found myself most unhappy with Eve when I was giving birth to my children!!!) we are not sinning when we try to minimize or avoid the Curse because the Curse was not God's perfect plan for us, the creatures that were made in His image.

 

[Torah]

OK. Thank you bliz. I understand what your saying. Thank you.
I hope I did not anger you to much with me.