Stick to the topic, stay on topic with the passages in Hebrews 12 describing a son.You did nothing of the sort. You stopped at Hebrews 12:14.
Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.
You fail to read and understand that this is in reference to holy conduct because one of the other conditions to seeing the Lord is making peace with all men in Hebrews 12:14.
Besides, sons can be dead sons according to the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32).
Dead sons do not partake in family picnics and or get togethers.
The children of the kingdom will be cast into outer darkness (Matthew 8:12).
A believer can be in the kingdom of Christ, and cast out on account of their sin (Read Matthew 13:41-42).
If you cannot live by what you preach, as an example of what you preach, nobody will want to listen to your interpretation that you cannot even live up to.
That is being hypocritical.
You said:as to Matthew 5:28-30, it shows a seriousness that which we should wage war against sin, but, if Jesus meant you should quite literally seriously injure yourself and risk death because you might look at a woman and have an impulse of lust.. well, is the bible advocating suicide?
We'd have a lot of blind, and quadruple amputees dying of infections if we were to take that literally.
Do you take literally that we're to die daily? Just commit suicide daily?
Probably not.
You said:You also have me wrong on 1 John 1:9
what I am saying is that when you confess sins to the Father and ask for forgiveness, you are forgiven by the same sacrifice of Jesus' blood, there is no further sacrifice you can perform to atone. Jesus was sufficient. You still have to ask for it.
and the other condition is, you have to forgive others for what you are asking God to forgive you for. So, if someone stole from you and you steal something, and you hold a grudge against the thief and ask God to forgive your theft....
that's not gonna work out.
You have to forgive the person who stole from you, then ask God to forgive you for when you stole (just to give an example, not accusing you of stealing)
I THINK we both understand 1 John 1:9 the same way it's just that you are thinking we'd never need to use 1 John 1:9 and ask for forgiveness because of a belief that you never sin.
You said:I know I fall short of the glory of God. even if I don't know exactly what I did that was a sin, even when I try to avoid sin. There is always some more profitable way I could be using my time and I'm not doing it. Mayhe I only read through 5 chapters of the bible that day and I know I should be reading more, I consider that to be a sin for me. Because James 4:17.
I know that even on facebook, there was a chance to proclaim the gospel in a comment and I didn't do it, that's a sin to me.
Sometimes because of James 4:17 setting such a high bar, I feel like, if I'm doing ANYTHING aside from reading the bible, praying, going to church, singing worship songs, witnessing to people, or doing the basic required things for my physical body to live, I've sinned.
We likely have different definitions for what we consider to be sin, and I have a very low threshold for what I consider to be sin and you may have a higher threshold, and therefore I see myself sinning more and you see yourself sinning less.
But I can't overlook James 4:17
Stick to the topic, stay on topic with the passages in Hebrews 12 describing a son.
likewise
I gave you the context of a son who remains a son which contradicts your beliefs from Hebrews 12. Nowhere does it even hint that a son does not remain a son. It says the son is disciplined.Not true. I gave you plenty of verses that refute your false thinking, and you just ignored them. A true son or child of God does righteousness (See: 1 John 2:29, and 1 John 3:10).
I gave you the context of a son who remains a son which contradicts your beliefs from Hebrews 12. Nowhere does it even hint that a son does not remain a son. It says the son is disciplined.
Do you have children ?
Do you have a son ?
If so he is always your son regardless if you deny it.
hope this helps !!!
I understand just fine I don't buy into your version of it.You do not understand how God regards sons in the Bible.
You ignore those very verses I put forth to you.
Obviously if your son was Hitller and he was seeking to kill you and the rest of the family, you would not welcome him into your home to kill the rest of your family (unless you didn't care about them). Sin has deadly consequences that you ignore. God cannot agree with sin.
Anyways, I am going to ingore your posts because you do not actually deal with any of the verses I put forth to you. I pointed out how you ignored the context of Hebrews 12 (i.e. verse 14). No doubt you did not quote that verse because it condemns your wrong belief.
BH,1 John 3:10 KJB
“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
Children is another way of saying son. So according to 1 John 3:10, a true child of God (a son) vs. the children of the devil is that whoever does not righteousness is not of God (i.e. they are not a son), and neither he that loves his brother. Meaning, this is in reference to not occasional times a believer may stumble or go prodigal whereby he is chastened to be corrected of their wrong behavior, but this is in reference to their overall life in how they live for the Lord. They generally walk upright and they do not justify the idea that they can sin and still be saved.
This is some serious hedging on your position, which is tainted by the knowledge of good and evil.So a son is not really a son if they do not eventually do righteousness. This does not mean that a son cannot occasionally stumble at times, but they need to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy and or to be a living son. God gives men chances to change their ways. If they are chastised, it is because God knows they can be corrected of the wrong behavior.
And all of Gods children/sons said AMEN !BH,
You are insisting that a son "does righteousness", and insist that means always being good, or
"eventually" never sinning, as if.
This is some serious hedging on your position, which is tainted by the knowledge of good and evil.
The righteousness of God is that you remain open before God [purpose = shewbread],and accept His discipline. Hitlerian extremes aside, we are talking about children of God striving to live a life well pleasing to Our Father.
David is given as our example, the sure mercies of David is our covenant. Do you remember Paul
teaching in Romans from this Psalm?
Psalm 32:
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
Whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit.
3 When I kept silent, my bones grew old
Through my groaning all the day long.
4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah
5 I acknowledged my sin to You,
And my iniquity I have not hidden.
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
6 For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You
.......
10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked;
But he who trusts in the Lord, mercy shall surround him.
11 Be glad in the Lord and rejoice, you righteous;
And shout for joy, all you upright in heart!
Your eagerness to condemn all Christians who you do not feel are doing well enough
in striving against sin with your commitment is a highly unmerciful position
to take, and you do greatly err in this unnecessary argument.
Please forgive me for being so blunt, but this discussion was grieving the Holy Spirit,
or else I would have "let the children play".
Psalm 52:8. But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God:
I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.
Matthew 5:7. Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
BH,
You are insisting that a son "does righteousness", and insist that means always being good, or
"eventually" never sinning, as if.
You said:This is some serious hedging on your position, which is tainted by the knowledge of good and evil.
The righteousness of God is that you remain open before God [purpose = shewbread],and accept His discipline. Hitlerian extremes aside, we are talking about children of God striving to live a life well pleasing to Our Father.
David is given as our example, the sure mercies of David is our covenant. Do you remember Paul
teaching in Romans from this Psalm?
Psalm 32:
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
Whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit.
3 When I kept silent, my bones grew old
Through my groaning all the day long.
4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah
5 I acknowledged my sin to You,
And my iniquity I have not hidden.
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
6 For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You
.......
10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked;
But he who trusts in the Lord, mercy shall surround him.
11 Be glad in the Lord and rejoice, you righteous;
And shout for joy, all you upright in heart!
Your eagerness to condemn all Christians who you do not feel are doing well enough
in striving against sin with your commitment is a highly unmerciful position
to take, and you do greatly err in this unnecessary argument.
Please forgive me for being so blunt, but this discussion was grieving the Holy Spirit,
or else I would have "let the children play".
Psalm 52:8. But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God:
I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.
Matthew 5:7. Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
BH,
You are insisting that a son "does righteousness", and insist that means always being good, or
"eventually" never sinning, as if.
This is some serious hedging on your position, which is tainted by the knowledge of good and evil.
The righteousness of God is that you remain open before God [purpose = shewbread],and accept His discipline. Hitlerian extremes aside, we are talking about children of God striving to live a life well pleasing to Our Father.
David is given as our example, the sure mercies of David is our covenant. Do you remember Paul
teaching in Romans from this Psalm?
Psalm 32:
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
Whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit.
3 When I kept silent, my bones grew old
Through my groaning all the day long.
4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah
5 I acknowledged my sin to You,
And my iniquity I have not hidden.
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
6 For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You
.......
10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked;
But he who trusts in the Lord, mercy shall surround him.
11 Be glad in the Lord and rejoice, you righteous;
And shout for joy, all you upright in heart!
Your eagerness to condemn all Christians who you do not feel are doing well enough
in striving against sin with your commitment is a highly unmerciful position
to take, and you do greatly err in this unnecessary argument.
Please forgive me for being so blunt, but this discussion was grieving the Holy Spirit,
or else I would have "let the children play".
Psalm 52:8. But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God:
I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.
Matthew 5:7. Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
typical of you- a text without its context is a pretext for a proof text. you always prooftext scripture rather than reading the context and understanding them within their setting. You tear them out to prove your ideas which is known as eisegesis not exegesis. You read your doctrines into scripture hence the proof-texting.Also, have you ever slowly read and thought about the words in Job 1:1, Luke 1:5-6, and Revelation 14:3-5? My guess is that you have to reject these words in Scripture or you have to alter them in order to make your belief so. I mean, do you even believe 2 Corinthians 7:1? I just do not see how that is possible by what you say.
I AgreeI am referring to mortal sin. Believers have to overcome sin that the Bible specifically condemns.
Yes, to me righteousness is to remain in light, to desire your faults to be exposed by the Spirit,Obviously a person who justifies the idea that they can sin and still be saved is not pure in heart.
John 3:20 says all who do evil hate the light.
I Agree
There Is Sin Unto Death
Yes, to me righteousness is to remain in light, to desire your faults to be exposed by the Spirit,
as you strive to overcome sin. Conversely, unrighteousness is not in sliding into sin, but in trying
to hide what cannot be hidden. Me must be as shewbread before Him.
Hebrews 12:3. For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.
4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.
1 John 3:
19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.
20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.
He Delights In Mercy
I most certainly believe in this scripture. I also know by experience the battle involved and howI mean, do you even believe 2 Corinthians 7:1? I just do not see how that is possible by what you say.
I am not an apologist for anyone who makes no effort to worship the Lord in Spirit and Truth.Hebrews 12:3 is not suggesting that we will always struggle or strive against sin in this life. Many who believe that we can sin and still be saved use this as an excuse, when this should be a means of identifying the problem so as to resolve the problem. For have you ever read Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, and 2 Corinthians 7:1? If so, do you believe them?
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