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Struggles by Non-Christians
What is "the world" in John 3:16?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mark Quayle" data-source="post: 73533624" data-attributes="member: 410020"><p>This probably won't answer your question, as it may seem a side issue to you, but the Greek is apparently like old English and Spanish in the meaning (though modern English also allows it) of "so loved" in John 3:16. Some "translations" (I call them interpretations) go so far as to write, "loved the world so much", but it does not say that. I believe it is just as good to say, "loved the world like this" or "loved the world in the following way", according to the meaning of the word translated "so". </p><p></p><p>Likewise, the phrase "whosoever believes" would probably more accurately be translated, "the ones believing". There is no implication that it is the work of chance as to who the believers will be. </p><p></p><p>Logically, also, the implication drawn that the eternal life is the result of the belief, is not proven here. Language often states effect and effect together, without even showing the cause, or may show coincidence without designating which is the cause, or may highlight effect, and only mention cause. In the John 3:16 case, I see three ways to go with it, judging by other scriptures -- 1: the belief, if it is itself saving Faith, then may well be the cause. The decision to believe is not mentioned, and we know by many passages that true Faith is the gift of God, not of the will of man. 2: The belief, the work of the human, is not what produces the eternal life but is a concurrent event, both the result of true Faith which is the gift of God, not of the will of man. 3: The eternal life is itself one and the same with the gift of Faith, which is not of the will of man, and produces the conscious belief that we make so much of. Thus, if someone has this conscious belief, he has evidence of Faith and eternal life. --Either way, he is not the beginner of his Faith. </p><p></p><p>"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God." --I see "sons of God" and "power" as not specifically dealing with regeneration, though certainly it is not unrelated, but as the same thing referenced in "...creation waits in eager anticipation for the sons of God to be revealed." Romans 8. The power was his, "given to them" does not necessarily mean, it is now their power and up to them to use it. </p><p></p><p>Any way I go about these verses, I see no room for anything but a monergist point of view, due to the explicit meaning of other scriptures, which is certainly allowed by these verses that have been raised in objection to monergism.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mark Quayle, post: 73533624, member: 410020"] This probably won't answer your question, as it may seem a side issue to you, but the Greek is apparently like old English and Spanish in the meaning (though modern English also allows it) of "so loved" in John 3:16. Some "translations" (I call them interpretations) go so far as to write, "loved the world so much", but it does not say that. I believe it is just as good to say, "loved the world like this" or "loved the world in the following way", according to the meaning of the word translated "so". Likewise, the phrase "whosoever believes" would probably more accurately be translated, "the ones believing". There is no implication that it is the work of chance as to who the believers will be. Logically, also, the implication drawn that the eternal life is the result of the belief, is not proven here. Language often states effect and effect together, without even showing the cause, or may show coincidence without designating which is the cause, or may highlight effect, and only mention cause. In the John 3:16 case, I see three ways to go with it, judging by other scriptures -- 1: the belief, if it is itself saving Faith, then may well be the cause. The decision to believe is not mentioned, and we know by many passages that true Faith is the gift of God, not of the will of man. 2: The belief, the work of the human, is not what produces the eternal life but is a concurrent event, both the result of true Faith which is the gift of God, not of the will of man. 3: The eternal life is itself one and the same with the gift of Faith, which is not of the will of man, and produces the conscious belief that we make so much of. Thus, if someone has this conscious belief, he has evidence of Faith and eternal life. --Either way, he is not the beginner of his Faith. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God." --I see "sons of God" and "power" as not specifically dealing with regeneration, though certainly it is not unrelated, but as the same thing referenced in "...creation waits in eager anticipation for the sons of God to be revealed." Romans 8. The power was his, "given to them" does not necessarily mean, it is now their power and up to them to use it. Any way I go about these verses, I see no room for anything but a monergist point of view, due to the explicit meaning of other scriptures, which is certainly allowed by these verses that have been raised in objection to monergism. [/QUOTE]
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What is "the world" in John 3:16?
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