What is the truth?

[Soulgazer]

"All those who have ever come before me are as thieves and robbers"

well then Christ can come and then we won't have another. I find it very weird that you can't see Christ in the prophets. or that is how it appears to me but I don't get anything.

Christ has to be the head and then the OT is pure. the thieves and robbers are those antichirst. ones that make an image out of the words of God and worship the image. moses is evil if your heart is evil. to me i see christ when i see moses.

is it so hard to believe that Christ hides a lot of spiritual knowledge?

If it's hidden, it's hidden in plain sight Noxot. "Moses" in John is all inclusive of the prophets, just FYI.

I don't know if "Moses" was evil or not; Nor do I even know if the guy actually existed. Different times, different societal mores. But if I don't know the difference between good and evil, then Adam and Eve didn't actually eat from the tree of knowledge, and I never sinned. Being a sinner though, I know that tying a kid up and slitting his throat is evil....even if you are "just kidding".

When one kills and another Heals, I know which one I will follow.

 

[strangertoo]

Are you saying that child sacrifice is ok? I'm just imagining that things like genocide, rape, and pillaging are morally unacceptable? I don't think you are. I think if you ever actually saw one of these acts you would be appalled.

There is an easier explanation, one that doesn't require all those paragraphs of ethical calisthenics. It didn't happen, or at least, if it did happen, God had nothing to do with it.

I think that you had better be explicit about what events you are talking about , as it is impossible to talk in generalities about so many accusations at once ... let us deal with them one at a time and explicitly referred to perhaps ?

I would however mention one thing which generates much misunderstanding : God commands Israel not to kill [as an evil act of human volition] and yet commads Israel to kill in furtherance of His plan to redeem all mankind ...

the digfference is obvious, but confuses many people... God gave life for His purpose in it and God can resurrect anyone who dies [undertakes to resurrecte EVERYONE who dies in this earth] ...

thus to man death is used as a way of silencing opposition to our mostly sinful plans in life , but to God it is simply putting some folks to 'sleep' for a while because they are in the way of saving everyone from the power of sin....

God has the right to take life because he can and will restore it , mankind mostly does not act in that principle because so few even understand God's plan even though it is written ... so there is an enormous difference between Isreal obeying God in war on nations in the way of God's plan and say an individual Israelite killing someone for his own sinful purposes ...

as for 'easy' 'explanations' they are the very stuff of deceptions ... better to seek the truth although its a lot harder to gain... in the end the effort pays off handsomely ...

 

[Soulgazer]

I think that you had better be explicit about what events you are talking about , as it is impossible to talk in generalities about so many accusations at once ... let us deal with them one at a time and explicitly referred to perhaps ?

There are too many to isolate, enough to establish a pattern of behavior. Nor can any reasonable justification be made.

I would however mention one thing which generates much misunderstanding : God commands Israel not to kill [as an evil act of human volition] and yet commads Israel to kill in furtherance of His plan to redeem all mankind

To quote Captain Kirk, why would the Lord Almighty need a starship?

However, if you wish to try.......................
Numbers 31:17-18 Moses CLAIMS God told him to have all the Midionites killed. The virgins can be kept "for yourselves".

Go.

[SIZE=-1]8:44[/SIZE]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. [SIZE=-1]
















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[Ronald]

Well, except:

One can hope that the God portrayed in the OT, is either portrayed wrongly, or has indeed changed. War mongering, land stealing, child sacrificing demon, just does not fit into modern ethical codes. If man can be better than a god, then the god was no lady.

There are no exceptions, God doesn't change. He was just and is just then and now. Since he owns everything, He can give to or take from whomever He chooses. He gives life and takes it away at will and to put perceive Him as unethical according to modern human standards is pathetic. You do not have sovereign view of God. He's in control and if you do not respect what scriptures states, then you will have a subjective distorted view of who He is.

 

[Soulgazer]

There are no exceptions, God doesn't change. He was just and is just then and now. Since he owns everything, He can give to or take from whomever He chooses. He gives life and takes it away at will and to put perceive Him as unethical according to modern human standards is pathetic. You do not have sovereign view of God. He's in control and if you do not respect what scriptures states, then you will have a subjective distorted view of who He is.

I respect that Jesus said, "All, even as many as ever came before me, are as thieves and robbers". Maybe I'm not the one with the distorted view?

 

[Ronald]

so our 'reality' is like God's dream, illusion, virtual reality , but it is God that persists, simply IS, without end , not us ... we talk of the spirit in us , but it is really us in the spirit , the spirit never moved ... movement is not for the spirit, but of the spirit ...

The Spirit is in us and we are in the Spirit. Jesus said this: "The Father is in me and I am in the Father, we are one. We do have separate spiritual identities that will pass on. I'll always be Ron unless He wants to call me something else, that's fine.

... one cannot be baptised of the spirit to knw all truth of God in life until one stops sinning ...

This is not true. We are all sinners, even after you are baptised by the Holy Spirit you still sin. We need to continually confess our sins to God and to one another. Our past, present and future sins were washed by Christ. But don't think that when you are saved, you no longer sin. It is not sin unto death, yet we still have the flesh, we fall and fail at times, get up and move forward. We have a dual nature, the flesh and the spirit.They war against eachother. Repenting is turning towards God and leaving your old ways, mortifying your old habits, but it is a life-long process of sanctification. At death, we leave our flesh behind and our spirit passes on pure and holy. You have to understand the design of our spiritual temple. The Old Testament Temple was a template of our human temple. When you see the compartments: The Most Holy Place, where the Holy Spirit dwells (this is our spiritual compartment, pure without sin); then the Holy Place and the outer courtyard can be referred to as the heart of man (his flesh), where sin dwells in its members; The veil, table of showbread, lampstands, bronze laver, etc., all have symbolic meaning. When Christ died, the veil split in two in the Temple. Likewise, when we receive Christ, our veil that keeps us blind is lifted. The lampstands represent the church/ light; the table of showbread represents receiving communion; the bronze laver represents the washing in baptism and so on.

and we know God only by love, so sin stands completely in our way , sin is breaking God's law of love ... keeps us from knowing God in spirit baptism NEEDED to enter the kingdom , sin is unlovingness , the religion of sinners is thus vain, they cannot know God until they stop and love instead :-

Sin does get in the way, and practicing sin keeps us from knowing God but there is forgiveness always. We still aren't perfect yet, we do have are moments though.

He love us when we were yet sinners!

they would rather pretend that MANY is FEW .... ignore taht only 144,000 are sealed in spirit baptism in this life and the many saved LATER [Rev 7:3-10]

That sounds like a Jehovah Witness doctrine. The 144,000 are yet to be sealed during the Great Tribulation period. They are identified clearly as Jews, 12,000 from 12 tribes -- virgin males btw.

God would not be God if he did not save everyone[/QUOTE
That sounds like universalism > everyone gets saved? That is not what scripture teaches.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

"He that committeth sin - Habitually, willfully, characteristically. Is of the devil - This cannot mean that no one who commits any sin, or who is not absolutely perfect, can be a Christian, for this would cut off the great mass, even according to the belief of those who hold that the Christian may be perfectly holy, from all claim to the Christian character. But what the apostle here says is true in two senses: all who commit sin resemble Satan and all who continue in habitual, willful sin are of the devil..."
Matthew Henry
Again all Christians still fall into sin. We are to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh but we screw up sometimes. If you think you don't, that's a lying sin!

 

[x141]

If it's hidden, it's hidden in plain sight Noxot. "Moses" in John is all inclusive of the prophets, just FYI.

I don't know if "Moses" was evil or not; Nor do I even know if the guy actually existed. Different times, different societal mores. But if I don't know the difference between good and evil, then Adam and Eve didn't actually eat from the tree of knowledge, and I never sinned. Being a sinner though, I know that tying a kid up and slitting his throat is evil....even if you are "just kidding".

When one kills and another Heals, I know which one I will follow.

But to eat of this tree is to see all things as a path and this is the path of an immoral woman, a path that leads to destruction. Though the captivity had to be and the wandering had to take place he is now calling us out of her.

 

[Soulgazer]

But to eat of this tree is to see all things as a path and this is the path of an immoral woman, a path that leads to destruction. Though the captivity had to be and the wandering had to take place he is now calling us out of her.

There are no other immoral women than in the lust of the one seeking to posses her. I'm long past that.

(28) Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in flesh. I found all of them intoxicated; I found none of them thirsty. And my soul became afflicted for the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will repent."~Thomas

 

[Sadalmelik]

truth, you want the truth? you cant handle the truth! lol

i can make a circle a square. does anyone believe me?

 

[strangertoo]

There are too many to isolate, enough to establish a pattern of behavior. Nor can any reasonable justification be made.

You cannot give us even one example of what you mean ? I think your argument just fell apart ...

To quote Captain Kirk, why would the Lord Almighty need a starship?[/font]

Again ,I do not see where God required a starship , nor what he would use it for.

- this has nothing to do with what we are discussing , please explain yourself and quote what you are referring to instead of this irrelevance

However, if you wish to try.......................
Numbers 31:17-18 Moses CLAIMS God told him to have all the Midionites killed. The virgins can be kept "for yourselves".

Read the whole chapter , God said to kill al the Midianites, which I already explained [God created life and can restore it, will restore all who die in this world to life , so God can take life for sake of all men, restore it when those will be able to live happily with others because of the FEW of Israel]
... sparing the children and virgins was Moses idea toward the growth of Israel , a married woman will always seek revenge for the death of her husband... the bible does not record in this instance specifically what God thought of Moses' mercy , but in many instances it does record his punishment of Moses for not doing what he was told to do, leaving God with a harder problem to sort out later ...

You should understand folks lived by war in those times , many still do , notably USA and Britain ... God could not allow Israel to be wiped out because of his prophecy, thus he took over the strategic decisions , Israel however was rebellious, did not always obey God, lost teh Holy Land eventually because of that rebellion against God , not obeying what was done for their sakes...and ultimately done fr sake of all men...

So you need to read the whole plan of God to understand the long-term reasons for God's instructions to Israel for sake eventually of all men...

you should also realise that the world was very different then than now , and you should realise how the long-term is fra more important than the short-term ...

and you should be aware that God will destroy almost all men [Matt 7:13] at the end of this universe , heavens and earth both ... but all men will be restored to life in the new earth eventually :-

Revelation 20:13 ...death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

note that at this later time in a new universe created because we destroyed the viability of this earth with our following evil ...ended our own evolution... so God makes us another where folks will eventually come to love one another and live happily , where countless amny are saved [Rev 7:9-10] by their loving works through God baptising all men [Joel 2:28] himself to know all truth [for those ready to believe him]

then perhaps you will see why the death of some before the end of this world was necessary for the sake of salvation of all in the end , why God can take life as required for his perfect plan, but mankind must be restrained from taking life for their evil plans...

[SIZE=-1]8:44[/SIZE]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. [SIZE=-1]
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the[SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]devil has his own agenda too when manifested as a man ... and indeed it causes the death of billions who had no need to die had they listened to God and loved one another instead of sinning continually against one another as Satan tempts men to do , even persuading the whole world he is God and Christ - Rev 13:3-4 whilst sanctioning continued sin through unified world religion and world government [MWO ?]
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[strangertoo]

I respect that Jesus said, "All, even as many as ever came before me, are as thieves and robbers". Maybe I'm not the one with the distorted view?

Jesus also said he showed us God by his love...

and notwithstanding that he acknowledged that almost all mankind follows sins against that love , he came only for the few who could hold to love despite the ways of the masses ... just 144,000 out of over 12,000,000,000 who ever lived capable of turning to love that did not fail in this world , ceasing from sin sufficiently to satisfy God that their past sins can be forgotten because they have changed irreversibly to understanding that love si the only way that works in the long term...for ALL folks ...

but if Jesus gets his 144,000 that is enough, since if each gets another similar number in the new earth then that would be 20,000,000,000 , more than enough to save all men ...

 

[Soulgazer]

You cannot give us even one example of what you mean ? I think your argument just fell apart ...

I gave ONE example out of scores.

Again ,I do not see where God required a starship , nor what he would use it for.

- this has nothing to do with what we are discussing , please explain yourself and quote what you are referring to instead of this irrelevance

If God doesn't require a Starship, He certainly would not need an army. Not if He's really God. More likely Moses needed an army and blamed it on God. Moses did not lead his army into an empty land. Nor did Joshua stay his sword when looking northward toward the trade routes and the income to be made by plundering them.

Read the whole chapter , God said to kill al the Midianites, which I already explained [God created life and can restore it, will restore all who die in this world to life , so God can take life for sake of all men, restore it when those will be able to live happily with others because of the FEW of Israel]
... sparing the children and virgins was Moses idea toward the growth of Israel , a married woman will always seek revenge for the death of her husband... the bible does not record in this instance specifically what God thought of Moses' mercy , but in many instances it does record his punishment of Moses for not doing what he was told to do, leaving God with a harder problem to sort out later ...

So rather than kill everyone, a brutal enough act, we add the rape of virgins into the mix. Nice.

You should understand folks lived by war in those times , many still do , notably USA and Britain ... God could not allow Israel to be wiped out because of his prophecy, thus he took over the strategic decisions , Israel however was rebellious, did not always obey God, lost teh Holy Land eventually because of that rebellion against God , not obeying what was done for their sakes...and ultimately done fr sake of all men...

I'm convinced more by your argument that it was not God. Sons of Abraham could have been called out of the very rocks if needed. We are talking about God almighty who seldom interferes with free will, and the adopted son of a Pharaoh, who certainly would have known how to manipulate religion to establish his own empire. " He was a murderer from the beginning, and when he speaketh a lie, he speaketh his own."

So you need to read the whole plan of God to understand the long-term reasons for God's instructions to Israel for sake eventually of all men...

you should also realise that the world was very different then than now , and you should realise how the long-term is fra more important than the short-term ...

Faulty argument because it is based on a faulty premise. I think you need to think it through some more. What this does is take the political aspirations of one man and try to turn it into the will of God. We could as easily be talking about Alexander, or Gengis Kahn, as Moses. They all had their respective gods on their side by their own claims, all accomplished the same ends by the same means. If we take home one lesson from this, it's to always keep the man in power away from the trigger.

and you should be aware that God will destroy almost all men [Matt 7:13] at the end of this universe , heavens and earth both ... but all men will be restored to life in the new earth eventually :-

Revelation 20:13 ...death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

note that at this later time in a new universe created because we destroyed the viability of this earth with our following evil ...ended our own evolution... so God makes us another where folks will eventually come to love one another and live happily , where countless amny are saved [Rev 7:9-10] by their loving works through God baptising all men [Joel 2:28] himself to know all truth [for those ready to believe him]

then perhaps you will see why the death of some before the end of this world was necessary for the sake of salvation of all in the end , why God can take life as required for his perfect plan, but mankind must be restrained from taking life for their evil plans...

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thedevil has his own agenda too when manifested as a man ... and indeed it causes the death of billions who had no need to die had they listened to God and loved one another instead of sinning continually against one another as Satan tempts men to do , even persuading the whole world he is God and Christ - Rev 13:3-4 whilst sanctioning continued sin through unified world religion and world government

Irrelevant to the topic, as it has no bearing on Jesus talking about the past. The unified world religion was tried with catholicism, and was tried again with Islam. A theologically based government will always end with rebellion, because governments by their very nature work for the dark side.

A man gathered up a nation by whatever means, and used his influence to militarize them, then not only defeated his enemies but wiped out their entire bloodline. Yes, it had been done before, and has been done since. If it's the will of God that men kill each other in this fashion, we should not complain about Germany accomplishing the very same thing, or Pol Pot.

You still have not convinced me not to believe Jesus when He said that all those that had come before Him had come but to steal, kill and destroy. That is the difference between Christ and Mohammed, who though he claimed to be the Paraclete, modeled himself after Moses. Everybody wants to follow the man of the sword, and not the man of the cross.
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[Soulgazer]

Jesus also said he showed us God by his love...

and notwithstanding that he acknowledged that almost all mankind follows sins against that love , he came only for the few who could hold to love despite the ways of the masses ... just 144,000 out of over 12,000,000,000 who ever lived capable of turning to love that did not fail in this world , ceasing from sin sufficiently to satisfy God that their past sins can be forgotten because they have changed irreversibly to understanding that love si the only way that works in the long term...for ALL folks ...

but if Jesus gets his 144,000 that is enough, since if each gets another similar number in the new earth then that would be 20,000,000,000 , more than enough to save all men ...

Yeah, we know about the 144, 000 gnostics.

 

[strangertoo]

This is not true. We are all sinners, even after you are baptised by the Holy Spirit you still sin.

baptism of the holy spirit only gives one all truth of God in life [John 16:13] and it is clear from divisions within religion all their lives by its fake sinner 'leaders' in place of Christ ['antichristos' in Greek] that they never were baptised of the spirit to know the ONE truth of God about love anyway ...

sin is not love , so to obey God one must stop sinning , stop disobeying him, not keep sinning and confessing all one's life, never coming to perfect love :-

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world

Revelation 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

---- shall we continue to sin then ? :-

Room 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We need to continually confess our sins to God and to one another.

if you sin then you need to confess, but to be accepted by Jesus at his return one must STOP sinning , depart from iniquity completely because it is not Love , sin is unloving, disobedience to God and to Jesus ... so Jesus is not the lord of sinners no matter they call him 'Lord' , Satan is :-

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him [Jesus] sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
...
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;

---- Jesus STATES that he will DENY all who are still sinners by time of his return , those who have not perfected their love in trial against Satan's temptations to sin :-

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
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not continual sin then, departing from sinning completely, perfection of love of all because Jesus and God COMMAND it of anyone who accepts Jesus as Lord ... a lord is one whom one OBEYS , not one who is continually disobeyed , saying sorry but never correcting the mistakes , without commitment of water baptism to DIE to sin, keeping it alive in themselves for sake of lust to sin...

Our past, present and future sins were washed by Christ.

the bible says only PAST sin is remitted , so one's sins are not forgiven until one departs from sinning :-

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

the bible states clearly that the FOUNDATION of God, the FIRST STEP to salvation, is to depart from sinning because God is love , sin is the opposite of love:-

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

--- read it, anyone who still sins does not know God at all....

1 John 4:16 God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

God cannot dwell in anyone who is still a sinner, one must stop in order that God , the holy spirit of truth , can come within, else he cannot ...

there is WORK to do then in keeping oneself from sin, listening to one's conscience, one's heart of love, one's spirit, one's mind , and ceasing to choose sin...choosing love instead ...

that is obedience to God and a happy life being WHOLE from inside out instead of being divided , in conflict of continual guilt for sin one knows is against God's command, Jesus' command, to love...

But don't think that when you are saved, you no longer sin. It is not sin unto death, yet we still have the flesh, we fall and fail at times, get up and move forward. We have a dual nature, the flesh and the spirit.They war against eachother. Repenting is turning towards God and leaving your old ways, mortifying your old habits, but it is a life-long process of sanctification.

you can only love IN LIFE ... death as a sinner assures one's resurrection with the unjust because one is still unjust ... grace does not make God unjust to the few , it is simply the opportunity to STOP and have past sins forgiven as scripture says... it really makes no sense to listen to sinners telling one that sin is OK so long as you pay them every Sunday and confess it endlessly, Jesus came to destroy sin, not perpetuate it against God, against love, all one's life...

At death, we leave our flesh behind and our spirit passes on pure and holy

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death surely frees one from sin, but the foundation of God si to stop sinning in life, because there are THREE baptisms to salvation , first to stop sinning [water] , then to know all truth from God Himself, [not from sinners][spirit baptism] and finally trial to PROVE one loves. will not sin any more [baptism of fire] , resisting temptation by Satan to sin...

so how can one be baptised of fire if one is dead? ... too late in this life, but only FEW find the way of love[Matt 7:14], ceasing from sin, following sinless Jesus, in tis life , and the many are DESTROYED for sin BECAUSE death frees them from sin and daeth also is the means of making all sinners wait unti the kingdom come is ready to later save countless many them [Rev 7:9-10] who clearly were destroyed in this earth [Matt 7:13]

so the task is till the same for all who die sinners - in the next life they still have to face stopping sin, turning to love instead, spirit baptism of ALL flesh [Joel 2:28] because obviously all men did not know all truth of God in this life [John 16:13] , and finally TRIAL of love to perfect it , baptism of fire [which sinners obviously do not taech in mass religion of sinners, because sinners are taught they will die sinners, which indeed makes it true, they will die sinners, but they will not be saved at Jesus' return, Jesus says so himself [above quotes]

Sin does get in the way, and practicing sin keeps us from knowing God but there is forgiveness always. We still aren't perfect yet, we do have are moments though.

one has until death or the return of Jesus [whichever sooner] to stop sinning, receive all truth from God, not men, and have one's love trialled in temptation by satan, just as Jesus went through all THREE baptisms to PROVE man CAN live by love without sin... but you are right, most folks will sin all their lives and die as wages of sin , be freed from sin in death, so need no further grace than that ... but they cannot be taken as just if they are still disobeying God , sin is disobeying God and Jesus... Jesus will take only those perfected in love , who RESIST temptation to sin as he did to show them the way ... so we ahve a while to stop sinning in this life, but only a while in life to learn to love, there is a time limit in this life, jsut as there is another at judgement day in the next ... mercy does not end, none can be left behind , not even in the lake of fire , final baptism of fire fr the last ones, the most committed to evil sin in two lives despite spirit baptism of all flesh ... God's pleasure is to save all men and he has the will and the means to do so, but not all in this life, just a few first who love perfectly, have PROVED worthy to set up the kingdom for salvation of the many later ...

thus LEARN from God... THREE baptisms to salvation, not just two :-

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
...
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

['blood' symbolising that the trial by 'fire' of facing God's truth of love against temptation by Satan to sin, the trial that perfects love, is mostly to the death of saints ]

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

 

[strangertoo]

He love us when we were yet sinners!

Yes but we do not love God until we OBEY HIm and stop sinning... it is not God's love that fails, it is our love of God and Jesus that fails every time we sin...

That sounds like a Jehovah Witness doctrine. The 144,000 are yet to be sealed during the Great Tribulation period. They are identified clearly as Jews, 12,000 from 12 tribes -- virgin males btw.

You are mistaken, I am simply quoting the bible , and you can READ IT FOR YOURSELF in your bible instead of listening to sinners who mislead you in what you say you believe here AGAINST what the saints teach in scripture ... so please note that UNLIKE YOU, I quote the bible throughout and can fill in anything you still did not trouble to READ FOR YOURSELF ... but really you should be seeking the Truth of love against all sin FROM GOD , that is what spirit baptism is about , not about listening to sinners leading mass religion taht we know from Jesus and from its DIVISION must be lies - Rev 13:3-4

God would not be God if he did not save everyone

That sounds like universalism > everyone gets saved? That is not what scripture teaches.

It isn't universalism, but it is what God says, indeed if you knew love you would know that it is for all , cannot fail anyone, but then you seem to believe in continual sin so you cannot know love, cannot know God , that way , for God is love ... you cannot find God until you stop sinning ... READ IT in your bible, stop listening to sinners [obviously ?] , get to stop sinning and so listen to God DIRECTLY, spirit baptism , without which no-one enters the kingdom even ...

"He that committeth sin - Habitually, willfully, characteristically. Is of the devil - This cannot mean that no one who commits any sin, or who is not absolutely perfect, can be a Christian, for this would cut off the great mass, even according to the belief of those who hold that the Christian may be perfectly holy, from all claim to the Christian character. But what the apostle here says is true in two senses: all who commit sin resemble Satan and all who continue in habitual, willful sin are of the devil..."
Matthew Henry

Why listen to a sinner, read the bible of saints and prophets of God and stop sinning , then God will taech you Himself ... but ...as Paul explains, NO man is innocent any more because Adam took the knowledge of good and evil for us al... we all have a conscience which tells us when we sin that we are WRONG to sin, against God's command to love ...
thus ALL sin is WILFUL disobedience to God ... we know when we sin ... what most do NOT realise is that the scripture tells us that one CANNOT know God until one stops sinning... so all religion of sinners is in vain , the church of God in scripture is all SAINTS and they do not teach one another because all are baptised of the spirit, taught by God, not men

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

so READ the REAL new covenant of grace in your bible [Jer 31:31-34] , repeated by Paul in the nT [Heb 8:8-12] and UNDERSTAND every word , God will teach all in His church Himself ... no chance of corruption as MUST come in ALL churches of sinners -Rev 13:3-4 --- ironically Jesus reveals that mass religion of mankind will UNITE in worship of the wrong god, the wrong Christ, set up by Satan - Rev 13:3-4

but then we know FEW find the way[Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8] and the MANY are destroyed for sin ... so a religion of sinners led by sinners covering the whole world is inevitable , but does not lead to salvation in this world , but destruction [Matt 7:13] in thw wrath of God against ALL still sinners ... who still disobey Jesus, so he is NOT their lord no matte what they say, it is what they DO that counts with God , sinners are FULL of words to justify to themselves continual sin, but one cannot fool God or Jesus ...

and if you READ the scripture then you will see that teh House of Israel were NEVER 'Jews' , that Israel was divided into TWO nations on religious grounds, the House of Israel NEVER accepted Judaism and are still rejected by most Jews ... but the house of Israel was and is the larger part of Israel ... only some 20,000 of the firstfruit saints of Rev 7:3-8 are Jews, the rest are of the House of Israel, the lost nation of God which ceased to be a people and were scattered to merge with the gentiles SERVING OTHER GODS in ALL THE WORLD , long before the Jews were scattered

but Jesus was sent by God ONLY to this lost House of Israel's children [descendants] with the good news [true gospel of the Messiah of Israel , the anointed, the Christ and the promise of the royal priesthood of the kingdom come] :-

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Jesus is that one king, but NOT in THIS earth :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

but the few saints of this world will reign in the kingdom, and it is one earth, not in heaven :-

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

so again we see the consistency of OT and NT , ONE word of ONE God of all men , that there is a new earth with new heavens where the kingdom saves countless many LATER [Rev 7:9-10] when only FEw find the wya now [Matt 7:14] ... so much then for what mass religion of sinners teaches, God says otherwise :-

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Again all Christians still fall into sin. We are to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh but we screw up sometimes. If you think you don't, that's a lying sin!

Jesus Christ lived WITHOUT sin to show man the way ... there is no doubt in scripture that those who follow him are SAINTS, no longer sinners... they were sinners , but stopped... and they do not CLAIM to be saints [which would be a sin because it is God who forgives, it is not for us to claim we are forgiven ]
so ironically it is sinners who claim to be religious, who CLAIM their sin will be forgiven for ever so they can continue to sin all their lives just as much as non-religous sinners... it is sinners who sin further in their CLAIM tha God forgives them NOW when He can only forgive anyone when they STOP, there is remisssion only of PAST sins according to scripture... and quite frankly there is no point in listening to what sinners say about God because they do not know Him so it is absurd to quote what they say about salvation of folks who pay them, have faith in their non-scriptural version of salvation of continual sinners...

again it is written CRYSTAL CLEAR , read it in YOUR bible :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
...
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

I mean, how can one ignore ALL this scripture and profess FAITH in DIVIDED sinners who are definitively of Satan according to the saints and Jesus ????

 

[x141]

There are no other immoral women than in the lust of the one seeking to posses her. I'm long past that.

(28) Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in flesh. I found all of them intoxicated; I found none of them thirsty. And my soul became afflicted for the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will repent."~Thomas

Who do you see as Her.

 

[strangertoo]

Who do you see as Her.

the ultimate answer to that in this world is that it is Satan longing to possess the saints to worship him , 'she ' is the woman in travail of childbirth of the Christ , she is the promise of God to Israel that He will take back His 'bride of youth' enshrined in the new covenant with those WHOSE fathers broke the old covenant [Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8-12] ...

because frankly it was all-too-easy to get mankind to worship continual sin instead of worshipping love that would make us us happy ... men even call their lust 'making love' to her, not realising Satan stole their long-term happiness for sake of a quickie based on a lie to a woman... lost their INTEGRITY, the wholeness, one-ness, of true love of all, true 'charity' ... freely giving love to all which when all will do it in the new earth will make all happy in life [instead of false promises as Satan provides by the bundle and almost all men have faith on and in ]

 

[Soulgazer]

Who do you see as Her.

When Sophia tried to create without Her consort, She ultimately fell, and ended up shattering into us. If I am to look for a misunderstood woman, it would be that grand Dame. However, Her consort Christ did look for Her, and is in the very process of rescuing Her. She represents the ultimate Dichotomy, of fallen and risen at the same time. She is both the great harlot, and the Queen of Heaven. She is us, with her feet on the ground and Her head in the heavens.

“1. ‘O Light of the powers, give heed and save me.
2. May those that want to take away my light from me fail and he in
darkness. Let them return to the Chaos, and may those who want to take away
my power be put to shame.
3. May those that persecute me and say : we have become lords over her,
return quickly to the darkness.
4. May all those who seek after the light rejoice and flourish and may they
who want thy mystery say at all times : let the mystery be raised up.
5. Do thou now at this time save me, O Light, for I am lacking in my light,
which has been taken away. And I need my power which has been taken from me.
Thou, O Light, thou art my Saviour, and thou art my rescuer, O Light.
Save me quickly out of this Chaos”~Pistis Sophia 1:37

 

[x141]

There are no other immoral women

These words became plain or open to me (so to speak) after reading your posts earlier on another thread. Though I have never read what you qoute (as you can probable tell) I see what it is your are speaking of.

 

[Soulgazer]

These words became plain or open to me (so to speak) after reading your posts earlier on another thread. Though I have never read what you qoute (as you can probable tell) I see what it is your are speaking of.

Thank you.