What is the Trinity

[Simon_Templar]

the contention that "trinitarian" language was added to the scriptures is nothing but historical revisionism. There is no evidence of it at all.

Not to seem to inflamatory, but this is the kind of thing that results from people taking things like Dan Brown books seriously.

The trinity is a doctrine which has been the central teaching of the church since the very beginning. It was never seriously challenged until the 4th century when a small group of people who had influential positions got the idea into their heads that Jesus wasn't really equal with God, but that he was a lesser created being.

The idea of the trinity is and was arrived at simply by reading the scriptures, and taking them at face value. When you read the scriptures they speak of the Father, Jesus the Son, and The Holy Spirit. The scriptures speak of all three as being God, and they speak of all three as being distinct persons. This is unavoidable if you simply read scripture without trying to bend it into some preconceived view.

The scriptures are also crystal clear that God is one. Unified and undivided. This leaves us with a paradox. One God, who is three distinct persons.

The reason this is so important is because this is how God has revealed himself.. when you begin to mess with God's very revealed nature and start changing it to fit with your views, you end up worshipping false gods.
This is clearly demonstrated in the OT. It is not well known today but many of the isntances in the OT where the israelites began worshipping false gods, they were actually applying false characteristics to the real God, and thus ended up worshipping false gods.

 

[GuardianShua]

the contention that "trinitarian" language was added to the scriptures is nothing but historical revisionism. There is no evidence of it at all.

Not to seem to inflamatory, but this is the kind of thing that results from people taking things like Dan Brown books seriously.

The trinity is a doctrine which has been the central teaching of the church since the very beginning. It was never seriously challenged until the 4th century when a small group of people who had influential positions got the idea into their heads that Jesus wasn't really equal with God, but that he was a lesser created being.

The idea of the trinity is and was arrived at simply by reading the scriptures, and taking them at face value. When you read the scriptures they speak of the Father, Jesus the Son, and The Holy Spirit. The scriptures speak of all three as being God, and they speak of all three as being distinct persons. This is unavoidable if you simply read scripture without trying to bend it into some preconceived view.

The scriptures are also crystal clear that God is one. Unified and undivided. This leaves us with a paradox. One God, who is three distinct persons.

The reason this is so important is because this is how God has revealed himself.. when you begin to mess with God's very revealed nature and start changing it to fit with your views, you end up worshipping false gods.
This is clearly demonstrated in the OT. It is not well known today but many of the isntances in the OT where the israelites began worshipping false gods, they were actually applying false characteristics to the real God, and thus ended up worshipping false gods.

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:
He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text
of Matthew 28:19. "The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian)
profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and
third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far
as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came
from the city of Rome." The Trinity baptism and text of Matthew
28:19 therefore did not originate from the original Church that
started in Jerusalem around AD 33. It was rather as the evidence
proves a later invention of Roman Catholicism completely fabricated.
Very few know about these historical facts.
"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page
152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his
library in Caesarea. According to this eyewitness of an unaltered
Book of Matthew that could have been the original book or the first
copy of the original of Matthew. Eusebius informs us of Jesus'
actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19:
"With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make
disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all
things whatsover I have commanded you." That "Name" is Jesus.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I think the Trinity makes sense....Jesus made it clear that He's one with the Father and that He has always existed...the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is the "Spirit of truth, who goes out from the Father" (John 15:26)... the word 'Trinity' is not found in the Bible, but the concept is. It is a difficult concept to grasp; how can three Persons be One? I guess we'll never understand it..at least not on earth. But it seems very Biblical.
God bless.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:
He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text
of Matthew 28:19. "The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian)
profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and
third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far
as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came
from the city of Rome." The Trinity baptism and text of Matthew
28:19 therefore did not originate from the original Church that
started in Jerusalem around AD 33. It was rather as the evidence
proves a later invention of Roman Catholicism completely fabricated.
Very few know about these historical facts.
"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page
152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his
library in Caesarea. According to this eyewitness of an unaltered
Book of Matthew that could have been the original book or the first
copy of the original of Matthew. Eusebius informs us of Jesus'
actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19:
"With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make
disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all
things whatsover I have commanded you." That "Name" is Jesus.

Michael, I've already disproved this.

The profession of faith is the Creed, not the concept of the Trinity. What is in parenthesis is meant to deceive people.

Secondly, the Eusebius quote is false. He was not directly quoting Matthew.

I think it is pretty interesting you want to remove text from the bible to justify your wacky theology.

Do you think someone has deceived you?

 

[Svt4Him]

Jesus made many claims that He was equal to God, as you can see by the reaction of the Pharasees when He said Before Abraham was, I am:

58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, - why? Because He was claming to be God.

Now did He say it elsewhere:

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

 

[GuardianShua]

Michael, I've already disproved this.

The profession of faith is the Creed, not the concept of the Trinity. What is in parenthesis is meant to deceive people.

Secondly, the Eusebius quote is false. He was not directly quoting Matthew.

I think it is pretty interesting you want to remove text from the bible to justify your wacky theology.

Do you think someone has deceived you?

I agree with you, you should not listen to anyone who 100% wrong. Obviously you have it all figured out.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

I never claimed to know everything.

Your sarcasm doesn't disprove the fact that the Ratzinger and Augustin quotes were grossly misused.

 

[amadeus2]

Ask 100 people what the Bible says, and you should get 100 of the same answer...until you start asking what it means.

The Bible says God was in the beginning. The Bible says Jesus was in the beginning. The Bible says God is the alpha and omega, Jesus said He is the alpha and omega. The Bible does say Jesus said He was equal to God, and it was the only charge the Pharasees could bring against Him. The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit.

Now I think the best way to understand it is to look at a man. We have a body that can be hurt without hurting our mind, and our spirit's can be hurt while our minds think it's foolish and our body isn't affected. I am my body, my spirit and my mind, you can not have one of me without the others.

How we know that the spirit of man is different than the mind of a man?

 

[amadeus2]

You just said Father of Creation.

Jesus referred to His Father (in Heaven), so it isn't added to scripture. He is clearly the Son and scripture refers to him as the Son (of Man/God).

The Holy Spirit is all throughout the old and new testament.

Just because all three are in scripture does not makes them a part of a triune God.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Just because all three are in scripture does not makes them a part of a triune God.

Way to attack the strawman you built.

Where did I say because all three were mentioned that proves the Trinity? It's what Scripture says about their inner-relationship.

I can't believe all the heresies that manage to pop up on this site.

 

[amadeus2]

You disagreed with what Michael posted, but you did not prove anything, at least, not on this thread.

Michael, I've already disproved this.

 

[amadeus2]

All I did was make a simple statement. You previously spoke of having proven somoething, but while I read every post on this thread, I did not see any proof in any of them.

Am I a heretic because I ask questions? Perhaps you had better check and see just exactly what scripture says heresy is or is not...

If you will will check my posts on this thread, you will see that I have not stated one way or the other what I believe or do not believe with regard to a trinity.

Way to attack the strawman you built.

Where did I say because all three were mentioned that proves the Trinity? It's what Scripture says about their inner-relationship.

I can't believe all the heresies that manage to pop up on this site.