What is the status of the state of Israel today

[mindlight]

The state of Israel is in many ways a secular political creation.

Yet there are a whole load of prophecies and promises relating to it in the Bible.

Should Christians be supportive of the state of Israel today?

 

[johnd]

Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. 3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. 4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. 5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

This speaks of Israel being regathered for a time without spirituality (spirit / breath / wind are haRuach in Hebrew).

There will be a time of spiritual revival in the near future in Israel, but unfortunately it will be over the wrong covenant. Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant and superceded it with the New Covenant:

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


But a false messiah will lead them astray confirming the Mosaic covenant as if it were still in place.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In the surrounding chapters of the book of Daniel "the covenant" clearly refers to the Mosaic covenant. It is only recent scholars who imposed their opinions on Daniel 9:27a to mean some sort of peace treaty.

Israel is God's prophetic time piece. You want to know what time it is historically? Look to Israel. We are very near the end. But Matthew 24:30-34 will not take effect until the religious system is reestablished in Jerusalem (the leaves on the fig tree). At this point the fig tree has merely become tender again.

Another thing to remember: whether in belief or not, Israel is God's physical people God's nation on earth...

Believer's are God's spiritual people (his children) ambassadors on earth of his eternal kingdom in heaven...

One is physical Israel, the Israel of this world. The other is spirit Israel, the Israel of God.

Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[Jipsah]

The state of Israel is in many ways a secular political creation.

Change "many" to "all" and you'd have it.

Yet there are a whole load of prophecies and promises relating to it in the Bible.

Are there?

Should Christians be supportive of the state of Israel today?

Christians should be supportive of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[greenjeans]

I think we should support Israel, we should always want to protect God's land and people. just my opinon

 

[mindlight]

Change "many" to "all" and you'd have it.

Are there?

Christians should be supportive of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Well for starters how about these verses:

Ezek 39:27-29 "When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will show myself holy through them in the sight of many nations." 28 "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind." 29 "I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD."
Amos 9:13-15 "The days are coming, declares the LORD, when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains and flow from all the hills. 14 I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. 15 I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them, says the LORD your God."
Jer 30:2 "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Write in a book all the words I have spoken to you. 3 The days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their forefathers to possess,' says the LORD."
Jer 31:10 "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations; proclaim it in distant coastlands: 'He who scattered Israel will gather them and will watch over his flock like a shepherd."
Jer 33:7 "I will bring Judah and Israel back from captivity and will rebuild them as they were before."
Ezek 37:21-27 ....."I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms."
Ezek 39:28 "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind."
Rom 11:25 "I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in."
Mat 5:18 "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

http://www.bibleprobe.com/greatsign.htm

 

[applepowerpc]

Oh yeah, Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy, all right. No argument there. You have no idea.... Revelation 17 and 18, man. Israel is going to burn.

Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

 

[cavymom]

The view that Israel and the Church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. In this view, the Church is completely different and distinct from Israel and the two are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the Church is an entirely new creation, that came into being on the Day of Pentecost and will continue until it is translated to Heaven at the Rapture (Ephesians 1:9-11). The Church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel, the covenants, promises and warnings are valid only for Israel. Israel has been set aside in God's program during these past 2,000 years of dispersion.

Hitler believed in Replacement theology.

Are Jews, Jews, and is Israel, Israel in the New Testament? Do They Still Have a Covenant with God?
ABSOLUTELY. THE BIBLE IS CLEAR ON THIS.

1. The Jews are Israelites, not Gentiles (Rom. 9:4).
2. To Israel still belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship and the promises (Rom. 9:4).
3. The gifts and calling of God for Israel are irrevocable (Rom. 11:29).
4. There are 77 references to Israel in the NT and none of them refer to the Church. Try replacing the words, "the Church," where Israel is mentioned and the passage is rendered unreadable and silly, e.g., Rom. 10:1, "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." If you put "the Church" where Israel is mentioned, then it is redundant. The Church is the body of saved believers, so how could Paul's prayer be for the Church to be saved?
5. Psalm 105 has a seven-fold affirmation of God's promises of Canaan to Abraham. This is an everlasting promise, as was Genesis 12:1-3.
6. Jeremiah 31:35-37 speaks of the everlasting nature of God's promises to and for Israel, the Jewish people, which is as sure as the sun that shines by day and the moon and stars that glow in the night.
7. The end-time prophecies, which speak of the return of the House of Jacob to their land (Israel) and its restoration, have overwhelmingly been fulfilled in Israel and the Jewish people in the past 120 years. (See, Isa. 11:11-12; Eze. 37:1-14; Eze. 36; Eze. 35:1, Isa. 43:5,6; Jer. 16:14-16; Isa. 60:9-11; Isa. 49:22-23, etc.).
8. The Gospel and Yeshua came "to the Jews first, then the Greek" (Rom. 2:9,10; Matt:10:5-7;15:24). There is a distinction in roles between the two. Galatians 3:28 says: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." This is speaking of everyone's standing before God as equals, because we are all sinners saved by God's grace and the atoning work on the Cross. Nevertheless, our roles here on earth are definitely distinct; e.g., men and women, mothers and fathers, husbands and wives, etc. all have distinct roles to play. Likewise, Jews and Gentiles have distinct roles to play.

http://www.therefinersfire.org/replacement_theology.htm

 

[cavymom]

red=Israel/Zion
blue=Gentiles

Romans 11:

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. In view of the fact that I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if I can somehow make my own people jealous and save some of them. 15 For if their being rejected is world reconciliation, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 Now if the firstfruits offered up are holy, so is the whole batch. And if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, though a wild olive branch, were grafted in among them, and have come to share in the rich root of the cultivated olive tree, 18 do not brag that you are better than those branches. But if you do brag--you do not sustain the root, but the root sustains you. 19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 True enough; they were broken off by unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.

21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you either. 22 Therefore, consider God's kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness toward you--if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not remain in unbelief, will be grafted in, because God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from your native wild olive, and against nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these--the natural branches--be grafted into their own olive tree?



25 So that you will not be conceited, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware of this secret: a partial hardening has come to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob. 27 And this will be My covenant with them, when I take away their sins. 28 Regarding the gospel, they are enemies for your advantage, but regarding election, they are loved because of their forefathers, 29 since God's gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.

30 As you once disobeyed God, but now have received mercy through their disobedience, 31 so they too have now disobeyed, resulting in mercy to you, so that they also now may receive mercy. 32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience, so that He may have mercy on all.

 

[johnd]

... based on whether one is a born Jew or a born again Jew.

A Christian is not a Jew unless they happen to be a Jewish born believer (which the Church was made up of in the beginning). And unless this is the case in their individual life, a born Jew is not a born again Jew.

It is not as is often taught in the Church that God has left Judaism to join our (Gentile) side... faith has always been (from Abel to Zechariah) about individuals joining God's side.

That's how it could even be said:

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

For they are not all {Spirit} Israel, which are of {physical} Israel:

No born Jew was ever saved for being born Jewish. They had to believe.

 

[johnd]

...between physical Israel and Spirit Israel. As you have cited in scripture, there are many contrasts and indications to support this.

But if the Church is not Spirit Israel and believers are not Spirit Jews, then you are simply going to have to remove from the Bible these passages:

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise {Judah / Jew = "praise" see Genesis 29:35} is not of men, but of God.

... "whose JEWishness is not of men (the flesh) but of God"

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Why did Paul simply not say "for they are not all saved / Christians which are of Israel?"

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Note below that the Olive tree is unchanged, and that the natural branches are cut off for unbelief and the unnatural are grafted in for belief... to the same Olive tree it ever was:

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

I pray the Lord opens the eyes of all who do not see these things; how their presuppositions and prejudices taint the scriptures they claim disproves this when in reality they merely draw a distinction between the physical and spiritual.

 

[johnd]

The dynamics of the Gospel is this, man is doomed to eternal hell by birth. Christ came, died, and rose again to deliver us from hell. We must believe in him (that he is the Creator Incarnate and he did these things as a gift not as a reward). The biggest hindrance to this dynamic is our stubborn insistance on earning salvation / rewards / or recompensing sin. So, God set apart a people to usher in the Law that convicts us (and at the same time standardizes good from evil). And to prove through them that no one except Messiah can truly keep the Law... which is intended to drive us to Grace (to seek his mercy rather than his justice).

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

The Judaizers in the New Testament that Paul wrote against were those who tried to bring works back into the dynamics. It was not the alienation of all things Jewish as has been the unfortunate practice of the Church since the Roman infiltration (from Emperor Constantine onward).

 

[applepowerpc]

What Constantine did was a very, very good thing; especially when you read about the manner in which he did it. It was through Constantine's direct authorization that the first bishops convened (many of whom had lost limbs, eyes, etc. to Roman & Jewish persecution) at the Councils of Nicea, from which we canonized the New Testament.

 

[Easystreet]

The state of Israel is in many ways a secular political creation.

Yet there are a whole load of prophecies and promises relating to it in the Bible.

Should Christians be supportive of the state of Israel today?

Yes, Yes, and Yes

My prayer is for he peace of Jerusalem. My desire is for all Israel to be saved. I want my desire to be God's desire and His desire is for their salvation.

He will again establish his chosen people and there will be war no more following the second coming. The Church will come back to earth with Christ and rule and reign in the Millennial Kingdom where the lion will lie down with the lamb. Oh! What a blessed time. I as so looking forward to it.

We all need to continue to pray for the Lost of all peoples and that includes Israel. Israel is the Apple of God eye and I want my love for Israel to reflect God's will.

Give God all the glory

 

[applepowerpc]

Yes yes and no. Israel is most definitely a fulfillment of prophecies, but not the ones you might think. The harlot is back.

God has already established His chosen people, and we are they.

I Pet. 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.