What is the sin unto death in 1 John 5:16?

[tonychanyt]

ESV, 1 John 5:

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

John addressed the brothers in the church. He was going to contrast life and death to close this letter.

14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

πρὸς (pros)
Preposition
Strong's 4314: To, towards, with. A strengthened form of pro; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. Toward.

This is the confidence we have toward God:

that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

Ask and it will be given to you (Matt 7:7a).

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death,

The word "lead" was not in the Greek.

committing
ἁμαρτάνοντα (hamartanonta)
Verb - Present Participle Active - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

a sin
ἁμαρτίαν (hamartian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 266: From hamartano; a sin.

leading to
πρὸς (pros)
Preposition
Strong's 4314: To, towards, with. A strengthened form of pro; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. Toward.

If you see any brother or sister sinning a sin not πρὸς-toward death,

you should pray and God will give them life.

John contrasted life and death.

Was John talking about physical or spiritual life and death?

John used the terms life and death ambiguously on purpose.

If you see a Christian sin and sin, πρὸς-approaching death, but he desires to repent, you should pray, and God will give him life to repent. He will not die in his sin.

I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death.

This sin does not lead to spiritual death because he is repentant.

There is a sin that leads to death.

However, there is a sin πρὸς death.

Was John talking about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, i.e., the sin of unbelief?

I don't think so. John was addressing believing brothers here.

What was this sin πρὸς death?

It was not any particular act of sin. It had to do with the brother's attitude toward this sin.

What was the nature of this sin πρὸς death?

A brother sinned this sin πρὸς death when he was unrepentant. Perhaps he did not consider it a sin. He would not listen to other brothers' advice about this sin. He would stubbornly hold on to this sin until the day he died.

I am not saying that you should pray about that.

Don't bother praying for this brother. He will never change.

17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

All wrongdoing is sin, yet there is sin not πρὸς death.

18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin;

We know that anyone born of God has the Paraclete dwelling in his spirit. He does not practice sinning stubbornly without being repentant about it.

but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

The Paraclete dwelling in his spirit protects him, and the evil one does not touch his spirit.

There are Christians who sin, and sin, and sin the same sin unto death. They will die in this sin. Their spirit is weak and not growing in the Paraclete. They don't think they need to repent of this πρὸς-death sin. There is no point praying for them about this sin.

Are these Christians condemned to eternal death?

No, not necessarily. It is not the unforgivable sin. It is not the sin of (eternal) death. It is the sin πρὸς-toward death. The prognosis is not good. They are heading there. John's last sentence in this letter, he warned them:

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

God will decide who gets to heaven.

What is the sin unto death?

It is a sin that the Christian refuses to repent of in his lifetime. He will not repent even at his (physical) death. This sin will gravely endanger his receiving eternal life after the resurrection. He will likely experience the second death. Don't idolize your sin. It will lead you to spiritual death.

 

[trophy33]

Probably a sin punishable by physical death according to the Jewish culture (the Mosaic law). Like adultery.

 

[HTacianas]

ESV, 1 John 5:


John addressed the brothers in the church. He was going to contrast life and death to close this letter.


πρὸς (pros)
Preposition
Strong's 4314: To, towards, with. A strengthened form of pro; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. Toward.

This is the confidence we have toward God:


Ask and it will be given to you (Matt 7:7a).


The word "lead" was not in the Greek.

committing
ἁμαρτάνοντα (hamartanonta)
Verb - Present Participle Active - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

a sin
ἁμαρτίαν (hamartian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 266: From hamartano; a sin.

leading to
πρὸς (pros)
Preposition
Strong's 4314: To, towards, with. A strengthened form of pro; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. Toward.

If you see any brother or sister sinning a sin not πρὸς-toward death,


John contrasted life and death.

Was John talking about physical or spiritual life and death?

John used the terms life and death ambiguously on purpose.

If you see a Christian sin and sin, πρὸς-approaching death, but he desires to repent, you should pray, and God will give him life to repent. He will not die in his sin.


This sin does not lead to spiritual death because he is repentant.


However, there is a sin πρὸς death.

Was John talking about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, i.e., the sin of unbelief?

I don't think so. John was addressing believing brothers here.

What was this sin πρὸς death?

It was not any particular act of sin. It had to do with the brother's attitude toward this sin.

What was the nature of this sin πρὸς death?

A brother sinned this sin πρὸς death when he was unrepentant. Perhaps he did not consider it a sin. He would not listen to other brothers' advice about this sin. He would stubbornly hold on to this sin until the day he died.


Don't bother praying for this brother. He will never change.


All wrongdoing is sin, yet there is sin not πρὸς death.


We know that anyone born of God has the Paraclete dwelling in his spirit. He does not practice sinning stubbornly without being repentant about it.


The Paraclete dwelling in his spirit protects him, and the evil one does not touch his spirit.

There are Christians who sin, and sin, and sin the same sin unto death. They will die in this sin. Their spirit is weak and not growing in the Paraclete. They don't think they need to repent of this πρὸς-death sin. There is no point praying for them about this sin.

Are these Christians condemned to eternal death?

No, not necessarily. It is not the unforgivable sin. It is not the sin of (eternal) death. It is the sin πρὸς-toward death. The prognosis is not good. They are heading there. John's last sentence in this letter, he warned them:


God will decide who gets to heaven.

What is the sin unto death?

It is a sin that the Christian refuses to repent of in his lifetime. He will not repent even at his (physical) death. This sin will gravely endanger his receiving eternal life after the resurrection. He will likely experience the second death. Don't idolize your sin. It will lead you to death.

It is not a sin. It is any mortal sin. As @trophy33 said above, it is a sin requiring the death penalty under the old testament law. See also 1 John 1:8 and 3:6:

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 3:6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin.

At 1:8 we sin, but at 3:6 we do not sin. It's not a case of Schrödinger's sin, where we both sin and do not sin at the same time. Verse 1:8 describes unintentional, or venial, sin. Verse 3:6 describes intentional, or mortal, sin. By way of analogy:

1Jo 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death.

If you see your brother lose his temper and yell at someone in traffic, pray for him and it will be forgiven.

There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

If you see your brother pull out a gun and murder someone, do not pray for that.

 

[tonychanyt]

It is not a sin. It is any mortal sin. As @trophy33 said above, it is a sin requiring the death penalty under the old testament law. See also 1 John 1:8 and 3:6:

Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing and quotation in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the relevant text.
2. Selectively bold the particular keywords that are important to your point. There is no need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
3. Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole paragraph.

I do this for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee it will sharpen your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it. I prefer to debate with people who do.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

There are two kinds of life. Physical and Spiritual.
There are two kinds of sin. Each leads to a death:
One leads to (eventual physical) death, the other to spiritual death.

I read the verse this way:

1 John 5
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto (spiritual) death, he shall ask, and he shall give him (physical) life for them that sin not unto (spiritual) death. There is sin unto (spiritual) death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is sin not unto (spiritual) death.

 

[tonychanyt]

There are two kinds of sin. Each leads to a death:
One leads to (eventual physical) death,

E.g.?

the other to spiritual death.

E.g.?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

E.g.?


E.g.?

1 Corinthians 5:1-5 KJV
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Sabertooth]

The Bible clearly defines many sins and we are responsible to

1. abide by them with an obedient spirit or
2. repent when we fail and are so convicted.

I believe those are sins unto death.

I see two possibilities for "sins that do not lead unto death."

1. Sin that we are not yet convicted of. I believe that God's grace covers us in matters that God has not broached yet. They still might have natural consequences, but not eternal ones, for now.
2. Missing the leading of the Holy Spirit. You zig when He wanted you to zag. You did not violate anything spelled out in the Bible, but missing God was a sin of sorts. You are still under grace and may have natural consequences like #1. You missed God's best in a matter, but you can still get back on track.

 

[tonychanyt]

1 Corinthians 5:1-5 KJV
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing and quotation in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the relevant text.
2. Selectively bold the particular keywords that are important to your point. There is no need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
3. Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole paragraph.

I do this for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee it will sharpen your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it. I prefer to debate with people who do.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing and quotation in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the relevant text.
2. Selectively bold the particular keywords that are important to your point. There is no need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
3. Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole paragraph.

I do this for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee it will sharpen your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it. I prefer to debate with people who do.

Ok!

 

[fhansen]

ESV, 1 John 5:


John addressed the brothers in the church. He was going to contrast life and death to close this letter.


πρὸς (pros)
Preposition
Strong's 4314: To, towards, with. A strengthened form of pro; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. Toward.

This is the confidence we have toward God:


Ask and it will be given to you (Matt 7:7a).


The word "lead" was not in the Greek.

committing
ἁμαρτάνοντα (hamartanonta)
Verb - Present Participle Active - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

a sin
ἁμαρτίαν (hamartian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 266: From hamartano; a sin.

leading to
πρὸς (pros)
Preposition
Strong's 4314: To, towards, with. A strengthened form of pro; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. Toward.

If you see any brother or sister sinning a sin not πρὸς-toward death,


John contrasted life and death.

Was John talking about physical or spiritual life and death?

John used the terms life and death ambiguously on purpose.

If you see a Christian sin and sin, πρὸς-approaching death, but he desires to repent, you should pray, and God will give him life to repent. He will not die in his sin.


This sin does not lead to spiritual death because he is repentant.


However, there is a sin πρὸς death.

Was John talking about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, i.e., the sin of unbelief?

I don't think so. John was addressing believing brothers here.

What was this sin πρὸς death?

It was not any particular act of sin. It had to do with the brother's attitude toward this sin.

What was the nature of this sin πρὸς death?

A brother sinned this sin πρὸς death when he was unrepentant. Perhaps he did not consider it a sin. He would not listen to other brothers' advice about this sin. He would stubbornly hold on to this sin until the day he died.


Don't bother praying for this brother. He will never change.


All wrongdoing is sin, yet there is sin not πρὸς death.


We know that anyone born of God has the Paraclete dwelling in his spirit. He does not practice sinning stubbornly without being repentant about it.


The Paraclete dwelling in his spirit protects him, and the evil one does not touch his spirit.

There are Christians who sin, and sin, and sin the same sin unto death. They will die in this sin. Their spirit is weak and not growing in the Paraclete. They don't think they need to repent of this πρὸς-death sin. There is no point praying for them about this sin.

Are these Christians condemned to eternal death?

No, not necessarily. It is not the unforgivable sin. It is not the sin of (eternal) death. It is the sin πρὸς-toward death. The prognosis is not good. They are heading there. John's last sentence in this letter, he warned them:


God will decide who gets to heaven.

What is the sin unto death?

It is a sin that the Christian refuses to repent of in his lifetime. He will not repent even at his (physical) death. This sin will gravely endanger his receiving eternal life after the resurrection. He will likely experience the second death. Don't idolize your sin. It will lead you to death.

Probably a sin punishable by physical death according to the Jewish culture (the Mosaic law). Like adultery.

Coming from John I doubt he'd care much about the Jewish authorities or about mere physical death. He was speaking of spiritual death, the most serious kind, that we all begin with and can return to: separation from God. Sometimes referred to by writers as the "death of the soul".

 

[tonychanyt]

Sometimes referred to by writers as the "death of the soul".

reference?

 

[fhansen]

reference?

While the concept of spiritual death is common enough ("...you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins... Eph 2), I actually thought the usage of the term, "death of the soul", was more widespread among theologians and ancient writers-but I haven't found a great deal so far. Anyway:

"The soul that sins shall die." (Ezekiel 18:4)

If anyone asserts that the transgression of Adam injured him alone and not his posterity,[7] and that the holiness and justice which he received from God, which he lost, he lost for himself alone and not for us also; or that he, being defiled by the sin of disobedience, has transfused only death and the pains of the body into the whole human race, but not sin also, which is the death of the soul, let him be anathema [shunned], since he contradicts the Apostle who says:
"By one man sin entered into the world and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned." Rom 5:12 Council of Trent, Session V

Our catechism also uses the term, referencing the above quote.

 

[tonychanyt]

death of the soul

Note that the word "soul" does not appear in my OP. I'd rather stick to the wording in 1 John 5.

 

[fhansen]

ESV, 1 John 5:


John addressed the brothers in the church. He was going to contrast life and death to close this letter.


πρὸς (pros)
Preposition
Strong's 4314: To, towards, with. A strengthened form of pro; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. Toward.

This is the confidence we have toward God:


Ask and it will be given to you (Matt 7:7a).


The word "lead" was not in the Greek.

committing
ἁμαρτάνοντα (hamartanonta)
Verb - Present Participle Active - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

a sin
ἁμαρτίαν (hamartian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular
Strong's 266: From hamartano; a sin.

leading to
πρὸς (pros)
Preposition
Strong's 4314: To, towards, with. A strengthened form of pro; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. Toward.

If you see any brother or sister sinning a sin not πρὸς-toward death,


John contrasted life and death.

Was John talking about physical or spiritual life and death?

John used the terms life and death ambiguously on purpose.

If you see a Christian sin and sin, πρὸς-approaching death, but he desires to repent, you should pray, and God will give him life to repent. He will not die in his sin.


This sin does not lead to spiritual death because he is repentant.


However, there is a sin πρὸς death.

Was John talking about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, i.e., the sin of unbelief?

I don't think so. John was addressing believing brothers here.

What was this sin πρὸς death?

It was not any particular act of sin. It had to do with the brother's attitude toward this sin.

What was the nature of this sin πρὸς death?

A brother sinned this sin πρὸς death when he was unrepentant. Perhaps he did not consider it a sin. He would not listen to other brothers' advice about this sin. He would stubbornly hold on to this sin until the day he died.


Don't bother praying for this brother. He will never change.


All wrongdoing is sin, yet there is sin not πρὸς death.


We know that anyone born of God has the Paraclete dwelling in his spirit. He does not practice sinning stubbornly without being repentant about it.


The Paraclete dwelling in his spirit protects him, and the evil one does not touch his spirit.

There are Christians who sin, and sin, and sin the same sin unto death. They will die in this sin. Their spirit is weak and not growing in the Paraclete. They don't think they need to repent of this πρὸς-death sin. There is no point praying for them about this sin.

Are these Christians condemned to eternal death?

No, not necessarily. It is not the unforgivable sin. It is not the sin of (eternal) death. It is the sin πρὸς-toward death. The prognosis is not good. They are heading there. John's last sentence in this letter, he warned them:


God will decide who gets to heaven.

What is the sin unto death?

It is a sin that the Christian refuses to repent of in his lifetime. He will not repent even at his (physical) death. This sin will gravely endanger his receiving eternal life after the resurrection. He will likely experience the second death. Don't idolize your sin. It will lead you to death.

The wages of sin were- and are- death, eternal death. John would've had little concern regarding physical death. A "Christian" embroiled in sin will earn themselves hell.

 

[tonychanyt]

John would've had little concern regarding physical death.

I think John was thinking about both here.

 

[fhansen]

I think John was thinking about both here.

Maybe. And the two parallel each other. I just think that, for a Christian, only one of them has any real significance.

 

[Aaron112]

The false gospel that is widespread directly is responsible for souls remaining spiritually dead. It is much more common than truth.