What is the schoolmaster?

[Byfaithalone1]

I'm confused about something I recently read, and I'd like to present two passages of Scripture in the hope that you'll help me explore them. These passages are being raised for discussion purposes only, and I'd love to hear your thoughts about the cited texts (as well as any surrounding context you'd like to discuss).

What is the "schoolmaster" as referenced in Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)?

How do you view Ellen G. White's definition of "schoolmaster" as set out in the following quotes?

"The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith" (Gal. 3:24). In this scripture, the Holy Spirit through the apostle is speaking especially of the moral law. The law reveals sin to us, and causes us to feel our need of Christ and to flee unto Him for pardon and peace by exercising repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." {1SM 234.5}

"I am asked concerning the law in Galatians. What law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ? I answer: Both the ceremonial and the moral code of ten commandments." {1SM 233.1}

If the schoolmaster is the ten commandments, does it follow that we are no longer "under" the ten commandments?
​

What is the "slave woman" as referenced in Galatians 4:22-24?

Does the slave woman represent the covenant given at Sinai?

What covenant was given at Sinai?

What does it mean that someone is supposed to "get rid of the slave woman? (see Verse 30)?
​

Any thoughts?

BFA

 

[Drwhat]

Hi ByFaithalone1,
the bondwoman is just a nother term for the Harlot or Babylon which is the Orthodox Church denominations today.

Ishmal was the illigitamate son of Abraham & Hagar the slave, this son not of the promise of God unlike Issacc who is the legitamate son of the promise simply represents the modern church today in the way that they will not after falling at Christ's feet accept his ways rather believing any old codswallop doctrines of men and of Satan.


We are no longer under the Mosaiac laws BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE DON'T KEEP THE BODY OF THEM, [analogy warning!!]if I was a bench hand joiner and I went on to master fine carpentry and wood sculpting that doesn't mean I would no longer use and operate in my basic bench hand joinery techniques where they were needed even though I would have advanced to a much higher level of skills.


Ishmalite Christians cannot get out from under the bench, do you understand!? Theycannot go beyond the law they judge other's by the law and they live by the archaic defunked old law. They try to put new wine in old skins, you dig me? It's that plain and simple. Now God say's something very important if you wish to really go on to election and see the millenial reign of Christ and that is this,



Rev18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people[that is the legitamate children of the promise made to Issacc there Christ's people for the millenial reign], that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Nothing in the bible my friend is partly for us and partly for others or a little for us and mostly for them, it is all for us all. We are not wheat and they are Tares, no, no, no, we all have wheat and tares in us and God will simply seperate the tares from each of the worlds wheat and burn the tares[sin] out of us for good. Leaving the whole of mankind saved and purge ready to join God for the ages to come. I know that would mean a happy ending for all even, Hitler & Satan, probably even Margret Thatcher, what a bummer eh! Don't blame me it's not my plan I'm just the messenger.


Any way hope there's something of help in my reply to you, if not ask further and I'll see if I can explain it another way. Amen.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

the bondwoman is just another term for the Harlot or Babylon which is the Orthodox Church denominations today.

That's a new perspective; I've never heard the bondwoman described as representing orthodox Christian denominations. Why do you suppose modern translations indicate that the bondwoman is the covenant that is "from Sinai?"

"It is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar."
​

Did something get lost in translation?

They try to put new wine in old skins

If it is new wine (and I sense that it is), why do you conclude that it also includes the old wine (and, if I've misunderstood, please clarify)?

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

interesting explanation.... hard to prove I suspect.....

 

[Restin]

.....
If the schoolmaster is the ten commandments, does it follow that we are no longer "under" the ten commandments?

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. KJV

Short analogy: In one's childhood/youth the speed limit is 45mph in town. In adult life one can drive an ambulance, but the primary purpose/goal is to 'save life' regardless of the speed limit. In this case, can/does the ambulance driver throw out the law? No!

(BFA) the allegory of the two covenants of Gal 4:24;

The conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus gives insight. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. v12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? KJV

(BFA) 'getting rid of the slave woman';

1 Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. KJV In becoming a man, do you/I despise the child? No

In Christ.....Restin

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. KJV

Short analogy: In my shildhood/youth the speed limit is 45mph in town. In my adult life I drive an ambulance, and my primary purpose/goal is to 'save life' regardless of the speed limit. Do/can I throw away the law because I am now an ambulance driver?

Re: the allegory of the 'two covenants' of Gal 4:24, some of the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus gives some thought. John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? KJV

Re: 'getting rid of the slave woman', is a similar answer in 1 Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. KJV In becoming a man, do you/I despise the child?

In Christ.....Restin

I may have gotten lost in your analogy. Let me take a step back.

Q: In the metaphor presented in Galatians 4, what does Hagar represent?

BFA

 

[Restin]

I may have gotten lost in your analogy. Let me take a step back.

Q: In the metaphor presented in Galatians 4, what does Hagar represent?

BFA

In the early years of one's spiritual life, the focus of law is 'ME' or 'I'! With spiritual maturity 'ME' and/or 'I' are no more the focus, or purpose of life. The focus is 'us'. God is not saving just 'ME/I', God is saving 'us' - a family, a church - His church!

PS: Seems I was trying to clarify my post about the same time you were posting this question-hope this is not confusing. Appreciate your response/question.

In Christ.......Restin

 

[Byfaithalone1]

In the early years of one's spiritual life, the focus of law is 'ME' or 'I'! With spiritual maturity 'ME' and/or 'I' are no more the focus, or purpose of life. The focus is 'us'. God is not saving just 'ME/I', God is saving 'us' - a family, a church - His church!

Although I agree with you on this point, I'm still not sure if I have understood what you believe Hagar represents in Galatians 4. Forgive me if I'm just missing the point.

BFA

 

[Restin]

Although I agree with you on this point, I'm still not sure if I have understood what you believe Hagar represents in Galatians 4. Forgive me if I'm just missing the point.

BFA

As the story of Hagar starts in Genesis, it seems good to go back and review the story in my own mind. Am I leaving something out?

In the Gal 3 allegory, Hagar is not/cannot be separated from her son. When son, Ishmael was 13 years old (Gen 17:15), God told Abraham that Sarah would have a son. But, Abraham's life was bound up with Ishmael. Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! KJV At this time the entire household of Abraham were circumcised, including Ishmael.

At the appointed time, Isaac is born. Gen 21:8 And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. KJV (4 to 6 years old -? weaning ceremony/celebration) Sarah sees the mockery of Ishmael toward Isaac, and Sarah cries out to Abraham.

Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac. 11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. KJV Ishmael is around 18 - 20 years old at this point.

(Personal story) In the fall of 2003 our youngest daughter, 20 years of age, who had graduated from college that spring, informs us that she 'signed up to the USA armed forces'. To be an officer? I questioned. 'No', she replied, 'I could be an officer if I wanted, but how can anyone be an officer without knowing what the bottom position feels like'? I cannot tell you how crushed her parents were. For 3 years, we would not know if she would return from Iraq alive, mangled, or what. (the Lord returned her safe and in one piece/fall 2006). So, I can imagine the pain that Abraham experienced in this relationship with Hagar. But then, Sarah endured much resentment from Hagar as well, as you see by the story.

In Genesis the story continues: Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. KJV Hagar and son Ishmael were taken outside the camp and sent away.

The story continues, as does time, and Isaac is a young man. This time the voice of God says: Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. KJV Abraham leaves for Mount Moriah, at dawn, without telling Sarah. You know the story.

In reviewing these these events, Hagar and son Ishmael, represent to us the good things dearest to us in this life that we love, more than we love God. God gives us to separate, in our mind, and at times physically, from these things. In the flesh, this is a painful, death-like struggle.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. KJV

In Christ......Restin

 

[Byfaithalone1]

As the story of Hagar starts in Genesis, it seems good to go back and review the story in my own mind. Am I leaving something out?

In the Gal 3 allegory, Hagar is not/cannot be separated from her son. When son, Ishmael was 13 years old (Gen 17:15), God told Abraham that Sarah would have a son. But, Abraham's life was bound up with Ishmael. Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! KJV At this time the entire household of Abraham were circumcised, including Ishmael.

At the appointed time, Isaac is born. Gen 21:8 And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. KJV (4 to 6 years old -? weaning ceremony/celebration) Sarah sees the mockery of Ishmael toward Isaac, and Sarah cries out to Abraham.

Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac. 11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. KJV Ishmael is around 18 - 20 years old at this point.

(Personal story) In the fall of 2003 our youngest daughter, 20 years of age, who had graduated from college that spring, informs us that she 'signed up to the USA armed forces'. To be an officer? I questioned. 'No', she replied, 'I could be an officer if I wanted, but how can anyone be an officer without knowing what the bottom position feels like'? I cannot tell you how crushed her parents were. For 3 years, we would not know if she would return from Iraq alive, mangled, or what. (the Lord returned her safe and in one piece/fall 2006). So, I can imagine the pain that Abraham experienced in this relationship with Hagar. But then, Sarah endured much resentment from Hagar as well, as you see by the story.

In Genesis the story continues: Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. KJV Hagar and son Ishmael were taken outside the camp and sent away.

The story continues, as does time, and Isaac is a young man. This time the voice of God says: Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. KJV Abraham leaves for Mount Moriah, at dawn, without telling Sarah. You know the story.

In reviewing these these events, Hagar and son Ishmael, represent to us the good things dearest to us in this life that we love, more than we love God. God gives us to separate, in our mind, and at times physically, from these things. In the flesh, this is a painful, death-like struggle.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. KJV

In Christ......Restin

Do you conclude that Hagar does not represent the covenant that was from Sinai?

BFA

 

[Restin]

Do you conclude that Hagar does not represent the covenant that was from Sinai?

BFA

Jesus said: 'Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.' John 5:45

If you trust the Sinai covenant to save you, then Sinai becomes between you and Jesus. In this case Hagar IS Sinai!

In Christ......Restin

 

[sentipente]

Copies of copies only produce distortions. Paul wrote his best understanding, EGW gave her best understanding of Paul and now we are trying to reconcile the two. A futile enterprise that can only result in distortions.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

If you trust the Sinai covenant to save you,

It's interesting that I don't see above-referenced phrase in Galatians 4.

What is your understanding of the phrase "get rid of . . .?"

BFA

 

[Restin]

If you trust the Sinai covenant to save you, then ....

It's interesting that I don't see above-referenced phrase in Galatians 4.

What is your understanding of the phrase "get rid of . . .?"

The two covenants in Gal 4 and what Jesus said in John 5:45 have the same message, but in different formats - one more directly, the other indirectly.

In my own experience, it was hard to 'let go' ('get rid of') the 'bondwoman'. My first reaction was to totally throw out Moses/law. But no, can't do that! The law at Sinai was given for a specific purpose, that being to convict of sin and to lead us to Christ. At this point, it seems there is a difference in/of perception about the two covenants. So, a short summary of my perception of the two covenants.

The old covenant is between God and man, given in the law to Moses at Mount Sinai -- Jesus came to 'fulfill the law' and thereby the law is/was 'established' -- for a purpose. When the present heaven and earth pass away, the old covenant, it's purpose being fulfilled is no longer needed and will cease to exist, being replaced by a new and better covenant.

The new covenant is not between God and man. It is between God and 'Himself', and given to us in the person of Jesus Christ. The new covenant is written on our hearts, in words the human mind cannot/does not understand through logic or reasoning (though not against logic or reason). The purpose of the new covenant is giving salvation to those that believe, looking forward by faith, to a 'new heaven' and a 'new earth'. Rev 21:1

Jesus said "...This cup is the new testament [new covenant/NASB] in my blood, which is shed for you." Luke 22:20 KJV

In Christ....Restin

 

[Byfaithalone1]

My first reaction was to totally throw out Moses/law. But no, can't do that!

What is the alternative? Shall we live in the spiritual adultery described in Romans 7:1-7?

BFA

 

[Restin]

What is the alternative? Shall we live in the spiritual adultery described in Romans 7:1-7?

Ro 7:1-7 uses the allegory of marriage to illustrate law/Sinai.

Note: v2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband KJV

Note: Adultery is having more than one husband as in v4.

Did/do you see a big "IF" in v2--"if the husband be dead"--so what kills this 'husband'. Am I going to use human reason and logic to figure this out? Sorry, this 'husband' is stronger than I am!

The alternative ​

Jer 31:11 For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob,and ransomed him
from the hand of him that was stronger than he. KJV​

In Christ.....Restin​

 

[sentipente]

Sometimes I wonder if Christians are preparing for an examination. So much emphasis on trivia.

 

[StormyOne]

Sometimes I wonder if Christians are preparing for an examination. So much emphasis on trivia.

maybe a round on Jeopardy or about to play Trivia Pursuit.... no real world use for some of the stuff we get caught up in....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Did/do you see a big "IF" in v2--"if the husband be dead"--so what kills this 'husband'. Am I going to use human reason and logic to figure this out?

"Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God."
​

BFA

 

[Restin]

"Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God."
​

BFA

Yes, Romans 7 does answer the question. Not in a way that satisfies the flesh, but in the spirit!

Peace in Christ.......Restin