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?Q2. WHAT HAS GOD GIVEN US HIS GRACE FOR
I am reading. Yet all you do is say "the answer is in the post you are quoting".
That is not an answer. What I do not understand is when I tell you something like that, you say "No Nathan, you did not answer my question". Seems a bit hypocritical.
So, I will answer my question for you.
The 'work' God rested from the foundation of the world is His 'work' of Christ - and our Salvation in Him.
[Eph 1:3-10 ESV] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
The Sabbath day of creation, God rested from His 'work' of creating.
[Gen 2:1-3 ESV] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.
So you see, there is a difference in the rest before the creation - and the rest after the creation.
He rested, both times, but for different reasons - they are however intrinsically linked.
In regards to Hebrews 4:9, Sabbatismos is only used once in the Bible and is properly translated "sabbath rest," yet in context in Hebrews 4, we can see the author of Hebrews is attaching to the sabbath a new and expanded meaning beyond that of sabbaton, which is otherwise used to denote the weekly sabbath day under the law.
*Had the writer of Hebrews wanted to indicate the 7th day sabbath, he would have used sabbaton, the standard word for sabbath. But he didn't. The whole context is about rest, so sabbatismos must be understood as "sabbath rest" in an expanded meaning beyond that of sabbaton, as WE Vine's correctly points out.
Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.
SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.
Hebrews 4:10 says the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. That person has entered in God’s rest through Jesus "rests from his own work" (in contrast with law keeping) as God ceased or rested from His works in the seventh day of Creation. God's ultimate, true rest did not come through Joshua or Moses, but through Jesus Christ. Joshua led Israel into the promised land, which was merely the earthly rest which was but a shadow of what was involved in the heavenly rest. The rest in Christ that God offers is spiritual and is superior to that which Joshua obtained. Israel's earthly rest was filled with conflict and attacks from their enemies and the daily cycle of work. The "sabbatismos" rest enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly sabbath under the law, is found only in Christ and not Law keeping.
Although for centuries the Jews had found their physical rest in a day, the new covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance, the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17) Christians find "sabbatismos" rest in Christ's finished work on the cross through faith in His death, burial and resurrection as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation, which is what it means to "believe" the gospel. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Rest for the Christian is entered into by ceasing from one’s "works" of trying to earn salvation though keeping the law, namely, "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9) Paul explains that the Jewish holy days, including the weekly sabbath, were merely a “shadow” which pointed to Christ; therefore, Christians should not feel obligated to observe them once the "reality" has come. (Colossians 2.16-17)
For an Adventist to give up weekly sabbath keeping is essentially giving up salvation. They even teach the ludicrous doctrine that near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.
Mark of the Beast
"Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible." (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23).
"The Sunday Sabbath is purely a child of the Papacy. It is the mark of the beast." (Advent Review, Vol. I, No. 2, August, 1850).
"The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church.” ... “The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark." (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281).
Ellen White - "It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." 1 Samuel 2:30. E.G. White, 6 Testimonies, pp. 353-356.
Ellen G White also claimed she had a vision in which she was shown the law of God in a heavenly sanctuary, and the fourth commandment (concerning the sabbath) was surrounded by a halo of light, then began to uphold sabbath-keeping as a primary doctrine.
Ellen G White: In the holiest I saw an ark; ... In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of stone which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the ten commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were four, and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious—a halo of glory was all around it. Early Writings of Ellen G. White, page 32, 33.
Ellen G White makes an idol of the sabbath commandment by saying that it shown brighter than the rest with a halo around it. The fact remains that the sabbath commandment from the old covenant for Israel was never included in the new covenant for Christians. It was a law given to the Israelites under the old covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; 35:1-3; Deuteronomy 5:1-15; Numbers 15:32-36; Nehemiah 9:13 etc..) and not to Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)
Misguided teachers of the law are forced to interpret "sabbatismos" rest basically as sabbaton (keep the weekly sabbath day under the law) because they miss the expanded meaning from the context of Hebrews 4 and remain on the old covenant plantation of law. Reminds me of the Israelites in Romans 10:1-4.
Yes something you have said a lot in your own words but have been unable prove especially when scripture has been shared with you verbatim (word for word) disagreeing with you. We should be careful (I include myself) that we do not find ourselves in that group that refuse to hear and see Gods' Word because it does not agree with our opinions. Jesus had similar problems in his day when he spoke God's Word quoting from Isaiah 6:9-10 in Matthew 13:15-16. Paul seem to also had the same problem when he was sharing God's Word also quoting Isaiah in Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27. Let's both pray we may always be opened to hearing and seeing Gods' Word so that we can believe and follow what God actually says.I interpret your post as one that is looking to support what you believe. That is how I see your post you linked
I believe the scripture proofs provided verbatim in post # 587 linked that you have not responded to debunks this theory. If you disagree please respond to the linked post and the scriptures provided that disagree with you proving why you disagree with the scriptures shared in the linked post with scripture. If you cannot we will have to agree to disagree because for me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.IThis is NOT speaking of keeping the weekly Sabbath day.
Absolutely Bright! Good post. How does God save His elect and how does this scripture you have provided here link with Romans 1:5? Thanks for sharing.?
To Save His Elect 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
In regards to Hebrews 4:9, Sabbatismos is only used once in the Bible and is properly translated "sabbath rest," yet in context in Hebrews 4, we can see the author of Hebrews is attaching to the sabbath a new and expanded meaning beyond that of sabbaton, which is otherwise used to denote the weekly sabbath day under the law.
*Had the writer of Hebrews wanted to indicate the 7th day sabbath, he would have used sabbaton, the standard word for sabbath. But he didn't. The whole context is about rest, so sabbatismos must be understood as "sabbath rest" in an expanded meaning beyond that of sabbaton, as WE Vine's correctly points out.
Why dont you tell us ?Absolutely Bright! Good post. How does God save His elect and how does this scripture you have provided here link with Romans 1:5? Thanks for sharing.
Sorry Nathan I am finding your post here hard to follow in context to our discussion so you may need to explain yourself a little more. I posted earlier that God's work being referred to from Hebrews 4:1-5 was creation posting Genesis 2:1-3 you say no. Now you post Genesis 2:1-3 agreeing with me that Gods' work was creation that he rested from that I already posted to you previously. This only supports what I posted to you earlier from Hebrews 4:1-5 in regards to Gods' rest being the "seventh day Sabbath" from God's finished work of creation that we enter into by first believing and following Gods' Word (the gospel rest) shown already in Hebrews 4:1-9. So are you agreeing with me now?
If you believe, than you obey. For those who say in one breath they believe, but they don't believe enough to obey? That's why actions speak louder than words. Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’I am not agreeing with you exactly.
There are two rests, from two works, spoken about in the first part of Hebrews. That is what my post was about.
As far as 'entering' God's rest, it is very simple - we rest from our work as God did His. This rest is done through Faith.
We shouldn't separate Hebrews chapter 4 from the previous chapter. It tells us exactly why Israel did not enter His rest. Chapter 4 goes on to explain in detail the rest He has provided, but chapter 3 is why people do not enter.
[Heb 3:18-19 ESV] And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.
The 'disobedience' of them was their unbelief. Jesus spoke about this directly also.
[Jhn 6:29-36 ESV] Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent." So they said to him, "Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'" Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." They said to him, "Sir, give us this bread always." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.
Even as it was with Moses, the people saw the work of God, witnessed His power and love, yet refused to enter His rest because of disbelief. So it is today. However, today is not over and there is still a rest that can be entered by Faith in the Son of God.
Sadly, for these many people (nominal Christians/unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 who thought they were obeying Jesus demonstrated they were trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. (vs. 23) Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are truly born of God. Now in regards to the will of the Father in Matthew 7:21, in John 6:40, we read - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.If you believe, than you obey. How can you say in one breath you believe, but don't believe enough to obey. That's why actions speak louder than words. Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Yes something you have said a lot in your own words but have been unable prove especially when scripture has been shared with you verbatim (word for word) disagreeing with you. We should be careful (I include myself) that we do not find ourselves in that group that refuse to hear and see Gods' Word because it does not agree with our opinions. Jesus had similar problems in his day when he spoke God's Word quoting from Isaiah 6:9-10 in Matthew 13:15-16. Paul seem to also had the same problem when he was sharing God's Word also quoting Isaiah in Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27. Let's both pray we may always be opened to hearing and seeing Gods' Word so that we can believe and follow what God actually says.
I believe the scripture proofs provided verbatim in post # 587 linked that you have not responded to debunks this theory. If you disagree please respond to the linked post and the scriptures provided that disagree with you proving why you disagree with the scriptures shared in the linked post with scripture. If you cannot we will have to agree to disagree because for me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
If you believe, than you obey. How can you say in one breath you believe, but don't believe enough to obey. That's why actions speak louder than words. Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
You're right obedience is not forced, which is the point of the New Covenant, God's laws written in our hearts. We obey not because He commanded us, we obey because according to God, that is how we show Him our love.Sadly, for these many people (nominal Christians/unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 who thought they were obeying Jesus demonstrated they were trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. (vs. 23) Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are truly born of God. Now in regards to the will of the Father in Matthew 7:21, in John 6:40, we read - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
I do believe enough to obey.
What you think is I am not obeying - because I do not do what you think I should do.
Do you know what the will of Jesus Father is? Do you know what lawlessness is?
Jesus contrasted the two and gave an example in the middle.
For the record I was not referring to "you" in my previous post, which I can see how that could be misinterpreted. I was referring to "people" in general. I corrected it in my response.
That said, it has nothing to do with me or what I think. There are millions of people, not just SDA's who all have the same understanding of God's 4th commandment. Not because of the way we decided to interpret it, because it clearly says Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Exodus 20:8 and defined again in Isaiah 58:13, Ezekial 20:20 You want to interpret that as all we have to do is Remember and Christ gives us rest, which is basically disregarding the 4th commandment. There is nothing in the 4th commandment that states all you have to do is remember and God will give you rest. You seem to be confusing the rest Christ gives us for His believers who obey Him, which includes the 4th commandment to Remember His Sabbath day, to keep holy, which happens on every seventh day.
The Sabbath is a memorial of God's creation. God told us to keep the seventh day holy (each seventh day), He did not say we can do that on any other day and He tells us the opposite of what you are teaching, we should do all our work in six day -Six days you shall labor and do all your work, Exodus 20:9 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. So no, we can not keep holy His Sabbath day on any other day but only on the seventh day according to God.No, I do not interpret it that all we do is "remember" and Christ gives us rest. That is not what I have ever said.
The 4th commandment is very clear. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. The Sabbath day is the day God rested.
You may apply it to mean every weekly seventh day, but the command is specific to the actual day of creation.
I do believe that you can 'rest' on the seventh day(Sabbath) of every week, and in doing so remember the Sabbath day of creation. I also believe that it can be remembered any other day, and for that matter, all the time.
I do not believe we have to observe it in the same manner Israel was told to observe it. I believe that that manner of observance was given to them - specifically for them - and was fulfilled in Christ along with all the other observances that they were given.
[Rom 3:1-2, 28-30 ESV] Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. ... For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one--who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
What is the difference in the way God justifies us? What is meant when he says "by faith" and "through faith"?
The Sabbath is a memorial of God's creation. God told us to keep the seventh day holy (each seventh day), He did not say we can do that on any other day and He tells us the opposite of what you are teaching, we should do all our work in six day -Six days you shall labor and do all your work, Exodus 20:9 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. So no, we can not keep holy His Sabbath day on any other day but only on the seventh day according to God.
For me my understanding of the scriptures is that we are saved by grace through faith in God's promises and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5.Why dont you tell us ?
Do you believe a person can lose their Salvation?For me my understanding of the scriptures is that we are saved by grace through faith in God's promises and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5.
Obedience to God's Law however is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.
Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.
God bless
Good question. According to the scriptures our salvation is conditional on believing and following Gods' Word. *John 8:31-36; John 17:17; 1 John 5:2-4; 1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 7:21-23Do you believe a person can lose their Salvation?
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