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What is the Popes relationship with God?

ReUsAbLePhEoNiX

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Hello Catholics,
I had a few questions about the Pope.
Whats his relationship with God?
Does he have direct connection with God?
How does God communicate to the pope?
Does the pope speak for God?
Whats your doctrine say about the difference between the popes will and Gods will, and is there a method of knowing which is which?
Are all the pope choices supported by God?
What is it about popes that make millions of people go see him where ever he goes?

Do popes sin?




If I sound ignorant and stupid about it, thats because I dont know much about catholic belief or the Pope.:priest: :priest: :priest:
 

Stormy

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ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
Hello Catholics,
I had a few questions about the Pope.
Whats his relationship with God?
Does he have direct connection with God?
How does God communicate to the pope?
Does the pope speak for God?
Whats your doctrine say about the difference between the popes will and Gods will, and is there a method of knowing which is which?
Are all the pope choices supported by God?
What is it about popes that make millions of people go see him where ever he goes?

Do popes sin?




If I sound ignorant and stupid about it, thats because I dont know much about catholic belief or the Pope.:priest: :priest: :priest:

I have just began my RCIA classes. If you can wait till the spring of 2005 I will be able to answer all your questions. :)

But I can answer the last one right now...

Do Popes sin?


Yes
 
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Debi1967

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Stormy said:
I have just began my RCIA classes. If you can wait till the spring of 2005 I will be able to answer all your questions. :)

But I can answer the last one right now...

Do Popes sin?


Yes
Ok If they sin then why do so many people look to the Pope as if he were akin to a Christ-like figure?
 
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Stormy

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debiwebi said:
Ok If they sin then why do so many people look to the Pope as if he were akin to a Christ-like figure?

*I can only speak of how I feel.

When I see the Pope, I do not merely see the man who stands before me. I see the Spirit that has been carried forth through the Church since the time of Peter. I hear Peter proclaiming that Jesus is God! I get a chill and I know that Jesus is with us. I feel the Spirit that I carry inside rejoice. I know that my Faith will be well nurtured and protected.

The Pope is not Christ, but he is a man that carries a direct link to our Lord. The keys were given to Peter and have been passed, on, and on, and on...

*(Please remember this is "how I feel" and although you may disagree...it is not open to debate)
 
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Roald

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Catholic perspective:

God does not necessarily speak to the Pope anymore than he would speak to any of us.

The Pope, as the appointed earthly head of the Church, does speak in the place of Christ because we need to be led to Truth and away from error. Because we believe that a teaching authority is essential to discerning right from wrong and discerning the will of God, we look to the authority appointed by Christ to lead His Church as an authority in our lives. We do not believe that the Pope is perfect or that he is always right (usually). However, it would be disobedient for us to ignore his teachings just because we disagree.

(By the way, there are certain circumstances that allow the Pope to speak infallibly. This rarely happens, but Catholics should always obey the current teachings of the Pope.)
 
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JeffreyLloyd

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ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
Hello Catholics,

Hello :)

ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
I had a few questions about the Pope.

Okay

ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
Whats his relationship with God?

the Pope, as the Bishop of the See of Rome is the leader of God's church on Earth.

ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
Does he have direct connection with God?

Is he a prophet? No. He doesn't get messages from God like that.

ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
How does God communicate to the pope?

By Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
Does the pope speak for God?

He speaks for God's Church. There are no more new revelations outside of Sacred Scripture and Tradition.

ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
Whats your doctrine say about the difference between the popes will and Gods will, and is there a method of knowing which is which?

Not sure what you mean...

ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
Are all the pope choices supported by God?

Only God knows that...

ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
What is it about popes that make millions of people go see him where ever he goes?

Because people can see what kind of a holy, and great man he is.

ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
Do popes sin?

Yes.
 
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ReUsAbLePhEoNiX

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Stormy said:
*I can only speak of how I feel.

When I see the Pope, I do not merely see the man who stands before me. I see the Spirit that has been carried forth through the Church since the time of Peter. I hear Peter proclaiming that Jesus is God! I get a chill and I know that Jesus is with us. I feel the Spirit that I carry inside rejoice. I know that my Faith will be well nurtured and protected.

The Pope is not Christ, but he is a man that carries a direct link to our Lord. The keys were given to Peter and have been passed, on, and on, and on...

*(Please remember this is "how I feel" and although you may disagree...it is not open to debate)
Thank you for that perspective, and sharing your feelings...makes a little more sense when I understand the emotions felt by catholics towards the pope.
 
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Theresa

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Hello Catholics,
I had a few questions about the Pope.
Whats his relationship with God?

-This Pope, personally I think he is a Saint, but you do not need to be a Saint to be a Pope but to be voted Pope you would have to at least be an apparently good man, with good qualities and intelligence.

-But, the Pope stands as successor of Peter in that "You are Peter (Rock) and on this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

In Isaiah 22, in the Davidic Kingdom, there was a King, and a chief steward. When the King was away, the chief steward held the keys to the city, or the Kingdom perhaps. So it is in the New Davidic Kingdom. Christ is the King but he left a chief steward in his stead, with the Keys of the Kingdom.

Does he have direct connection with God?
-no, well maybe personally, but it doesn't come with the job.

"This teaching by bishops is the normal way in which Our Lord's revelation reaches the Catholic. But where it is uncertain what the bishops are agreed in teaching, or where either some new problem arises calling for new clairification, or some new heresy arises calling for a more precise statement of the denied truth, there is what we may think of as a court of last resort. In the words of the Vatican Definition of 1870, the pope "is endowed with that infallibility with which it has pleased God to endow his Church." If the Pope issues to the whole Church solemn definitions of revealed truth, then that too is certain. He that hears him, hears Christ.

Infallibility is concerned with teaching only. It is no guarantee of the Pope's holiness. As a matter of fact the popes whose concern with holiness is less obvious have not much been given to infallible definitions. But, whether or no, the exclusion of error is not due to any human virtue; it is soley the act of God.

Observe that infallibility does not mean inspiration. If a question needed an answer which the Pope happened not to know, then infallibility woud not enable him to give it. Putting in crudely, when the rest of men are asked a question, they face three possibilities-they may give the right answer, the wrong answer, or no answer. Asked a question upon the revelation of Christ, the pope has two possibilities. He is infallible and God will not let him teach error, for the Church is the People of God and must not be taught error as truth. The pope may give the right answer or no answer. What decides? Whether he knows the right answer, which he must find out as other Catholics do. None of this means that in case of necessity he might not receive the answer by divine inspiration. But this is not part of what is meant by his infallibility."

Theology for Beginners - Frank J. Sheed

How does God communicate to the pope?
-the same he does with us.

Does the pope speak for God?
-when speaking ex cathedra, setting down a rule of faith or morals for the whole Church, following the due course, then yes, he does speak for God. You ask the Pope, "is cloning wrong..." and the Pope or the Bishops get together or whatever, and they either remain undecided, or they know the answer or whatever. We merely have the guarantee that whatever they decide is true, so if the Pope and Bishops leave the answer for a later day, or if they come back and give an answer we know that it is true. If the Bishops were split down the middle, and the Pope wished and could settle the issue indefinately by himself, ex cathedra, then we have the guarantee that it is true.

So then, the Pope is a human being with all sorts of human opinions. Those human opinions do not fit under the heading of infallibility, but we should consider the wisdom of these opinions. But, the Pope is the chief steward while the King is away so in one sense he does speak for God by infallibility, as the Church does, in a middle sense, he may speak for God from wisdom of the Church, and in a third sense, he may spout unnecessary and wrong personal human opinions.

Whats your doctrine say about the difference between the popes will and Gods will, and is there a method of knowing which is which?
-that's a strange question. I don't know how to answer it. There is no "pope's will". At least, not anything that would conflict with God's will as we understand it.

Each Pope is more limited than the last, for every dogmatically defined answer means one less thing a pope can decide or however you would put that. Some call it a negative gift. So, the Church had dogmatically defined the doctrine of the Trinity, so no later Pope could change that. So, the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary had been dogmatically defined, so no later Pope can undogmatically define that..but....

Are all the pope choices supported by God?
St. Francis de Sales (1596):

"When he teaches the whole Church as shepherd, in general matters of faith and morals, then there is nothing but doctrine and truth. And in fact, everything a king says is not a law or an edict, but that only which a king says as king and as a legislator. So everything the Pope says is not canon law or of legal obligation; he must mean to define and to lay down the law for the sheep and he must keep the due order and form.

We must not thing that in everything and everywhere his judgement is infallible, but then only when he gives judgement on a matter of faith in questions necessary to the whole Church; for in particular cases which depend on human fact he can err, there is no doubt, though it is not for us to control him in these cases save with all reverence, submission, and discretion. Theologians have said, in a word, that he can err in questions of fact, not in questions of right; that he can err extra cathedram, outside the chair of Peter, that is, as a private individual, by writings and bad example.

But he cannot err when he is in cathedra, that is, when he intends to make an instruction and decree for the guidance of the whole Church, when he means to confirm his bretheren as supreme pastor, and to conduct them into the pastures of the faith. For then it is not so much man who determines, resolves and defines as it is the Blessed Holy Spirit by man, which Spirit, according to the promise made by Our Lord to the Apostles, teaches all truth to the Church."

What is it about popes that make millions of people go see him where ever he goes?
-ha, ha. Including me, I was looking at pictures today of when I went to World Youth Day 1993. This Pope is beloved, there is no other word for it. He was younger than most Popes when he was elected. He has reached the young. He stands strong and firm. He is all that we need. He fought communism and won. He just is wonderful, this Pope. He has travelled accross the world and back, I don't know the figures, but he has travelled more than any other Pope ever. He has touched the hearts of the whole world. There are a billion Roman Catholics in the world and we all look to him as Head of the Church, as proof of God's promise to us, as Christ's presence among the people. This pope represents holiness, and personal self-sacrifice, and love, and strength and courage and everybody knows it.

Do popes sin?
-yes. This one goes to confession once a week.
 
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ReUsAbLePhEoNiX

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Theresa said:
-This Pope, personally I think he is a Saint, but you do not need to be a Saint to be a Pope but to be voted Pope you would have to at least be an apparently good man, with good qualities and intelligence.

-But, the Pope stands as successor of Peter in that "You are Peter (Rock) and on this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

In Isaiah 22, in the Davidic Kingdom, there was a King, and a chief steward. When the King was away, the chief steward held the keys to the city, or the Kingdom perhaps. So it is in the New Davidic Kingdom. Christ is the King but he left a chief steward in his stead, with the Keys of the Kingdom.


-no, well maybe personally, but it doesn't come with the job.

"This teaching by bishops is the normal way in which Our Lord's revelation reaches the Catholic. But where it is uncertain what the bishops are agreed in teaching, or where either some new problem arises calling for new clairification, or some new heresy arises calling for a more precise statement of the denied truth, there is what we may think of as a court of last resort. In the words of the Vatican Definition of 1870, the pope "is endowed with that infallibility with which it has pleased God to endow his Church." If the Pope issues to the whole Church solemn definitions of revealed truth, then that too is certain. He that hears him, hears Christ.

Infallibility is concerned with teaching only. It is no guarantee of the Pope's holiness. As a matter of fact the popes whose concern with holiness is less obvious have not much been given to infallible definitions. But, whether or no, the exclusion of error is not due to any human virtue; it is soley the act of God.

Observe that infallibility does not mean inspiration. If a question needed an answer which the Pope happened not to know, then infallibility woud not enable him to give it. Putting in crudely, when the rest of men are asked a question, they face three possibilities-they may give the right answer, the wrong answer, or no answer. Asked a question upon the revelation of Christ, the pope has two possibilities. He is infallible and God will not let him teach error, for the Church is the People of God and must not be taught error as truth. The pope may give the right answer or no answer. What decides? Whether he knows the right answer, which he must find out as other Catholics do. None of this means that in case of necessity he might not receive the answer by divine inspiration. But this is not part of what is meant by his infallibility."

Theology for Beginners - Frank J. Sheed


-the same he does with us.


-when speaking ex cathedra, setting down a rule of faith or morals for the whole Church, following the due course, then yes, he does speak for God. You ask the Pope, "is cloning wrong..." and the Pope or the Bishops get together or whatever, and they either remain undecided, or they know the answer or whatever. We merely have the guarantee that whatever they decide is true, so if the Pope and Bishops leave the answer for a later day, or if they come back and give an answer we know that it is true. If the Bishops were split down the middle, and the Pope wished and could settle the issue indefinately by himself, ex cathedra, then we have the guarantee that it is true.

So then, the Pope is a human being with all sorts of human opinions. Those human opinions do not fit under the heading of infallibility, but we should consider the wisdom of these opinions. But, the Pope is the chief steward while the King is away so in one sense he does speak for God by infallibility, as the Church does, in a middle sense, he may speak for God from wisdom of the Church, and in a third sense, he may spout unnecessary and wrong personal human opinions.


-that's a strange question. I don't know how to answer it. There is no "pope's will". At least, not anything that would conflict with God's will as we understand it.

Each Pope is more limited than the last, for every dogmatically defined answer means one less thing a pope can decide or however you would put that. Some call it a negative gift. So, the Church had dogmatically defined the doctrine of the Trinity, so no later Pope could change that. So, the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary had been dogmatically defined, so no later Pope can undogmatically define that..but....


St. Francis de Sales (1596):

"When he teaches the whole Church as shepherd, in general matters of faith and morals, then there is nothing but doctrine and truth. And in fact, everything a king says is not a law or an edict, but that only which a king says as king and as a legislator. So everything the Pope says is not canon law or of legal obligation; he must mean to define and to lay down the law for the sheep and he must keep the due order and form.

We must not thing that in everything and everywhere his judgement is infallible, but then only when he gives judgement on a matter of faith in questions necessary to the whole Church; for in particular cases which depend on human fact he can err, there is no doubt, though it is not for us to control him in these cases save with all reverence, submission, and discretion. Theologians have said, in a word, that he can err in questions of fact, not in questions of right; that he can err extra cathedram, outside the chair of Peter, that is, as a private individual, by writings and bad example.

But he cannot err when he is in cathedra, that is, when he intends to make an instruction and decree for the guidance of the whole Church, when he means to confirm his bretheren as supreme pastor, and to conduct them into the pastures of the faith. For then it is not so much man who determines, resolves and defines as it is the Blessed Holy Spirit by man, which Spirit, according to the promise made by Our Lord to the Apostles, teaches all truth to the Church."


-ha, ha. Including me, I was looking at pictures today of when I went to World Youth Day 1993. This Pope is beloved, there is no other word for it. He was younger than most Popes when he was elected. He has reached the young. He stands strong and firm. He is all that we need. He fought communism and won. He just is wonderful, this Pope. He has travelled accross the world and back, I don't know the figures, but he has travelled more than any other Pope ever. He has touched the hearts of the whole world. There are a billion Roman Catholics in the world and we all look to him as Head of the Church, as proof of God's promise to us, as Christ's presence among the people. This pope represents holiness, and personal self-sacrifice, and love, and strength and courage and everybody knows it.


-yes. This one goes to confession once a week.
coolness..thanks for the info, this one goes in my hardrive
 
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Theresa

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I was just reliving some World Youth Day Moments.

We went to Mile High Stadium, only 90,000 of us could fit but we got in, Yeah!

I remember the gunmen on the roof, to protect the Pope from assasination, sad thought.

But, at the very end, Dana sang "We are One Body," I love that song, we sang the chorus over and over again as we were leaving, it was beautiful.

"We are one body,
one body in Christ,
and we do not stand alone.

We are one body,
one body in Christ,
and he came that we might have life.


For he tells us:

I am the way,the truth the life,
I am the fine, the sacrifice,
I am the way, the truth, the life,
He who believes in me will have eternal life.

etc., etc.

Beautiful.

And then they had chaperones for every two to four of us and my chaperone was Fr.Dennis, and that was awesome because that's the only time I've ever been chummy with a priest outside of Church. I love Fr.Dennis. He'll say what needs to be said, he's not afraid. Go to baptism classes for our daughter unmarried, "so when you getting married?" "Well, how about you marry us," and he laughs and says, "I hate when people say 'I'm marrying them', haha, they're marrying each other." But he did marry us.


But my most favorite moment was when we were walking outside the stadium, and there were these nuns, and they were beautiful, not physically beautiful, just plain old beautiful. I gave them a Canadian pin, and they thanked me profusely. They were East Indian I think, and they were dressed in light blue dresses and a habit trimmed with white, they had set up a place where those who have heat exhaustion could rest. But they were beautiful, just beautiful. They took my hand, each of them came to say Hi, and thank-me for such a small thing as a smile and a Canadian pin. They promised to pray for me, and it was such a joyful encounter. It lasted all of a minute or two, but I will always remember these beautiful women and their beautiful hearts. I just about cried....they left such a feeling of peace and joy......I felt so honoured to have their prayers.
 
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Big Jase

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the pope is a direct blood line to the apostel paul.......that is why he is in control of such a big crowd...u could say..i don't like what a lot of catholics do by idolising him... but i think i was in 1 corth... that god told paul that my church will be based on ur life..and so on and so on...
 
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JeffreyLloyd

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Big Jase said:
the pope is a direct blood line to the apostel paul...

No, he is not. The Church has never made such a claim.

Big Jase said:
....that is why he is in control of such a big crowd...u could say..

He "controls a big crowd" because he is the leader of Christ's church.

Big Jase said:
i don't like what a lot of catholics do by idolising him...

Catholic's do no such thing.
 
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Polycarp1

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You have to remember that from the Catholic perspective, they are the church which Christ founded on Peter the Rock, the Body of Christ which holds the fullness of the Deposit of Faith. They acknowledge the rest of us as Christians, but feel that we are in error and separated from the fullness of God’s grace by remaining apart from His church, i.e., the church in communion with Peter’s successor the Pope.



After careful study by both himself and the scholars at the Vatican and elsewhere in the Catholic Church, the Pope will teach authoritatively on matters of faith and morals. Under certain circumstances, those teachings are held to be infallible; the rest of the time, they are merely (in their opinion) the best that fallible humans can do at knowing the mind and will of God on the subject of concern.



As a bishop, he is possessed of the faculties which Christ transmitted to the apostles and they in turn to the bishops they ordained. (See Matthew 28:16-20, John 20:19-23.) As the man elected by the College of Cardinals after prayer to be the Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Christ, and leader of the church, he is especially empowered by the Holy Spirit to do his job, given the gifts a Pope needs to be an effective pope.



Like everyone else, the Pope is a sinner saved by the Grace of God. But like everyone else, having received that Grace, he is then called to do God’s work in the world.



As for confession to God and not to a worldly man, Catholics, Orthodox, and Anglicans agree with Protestants that all sins should be confessed to God, by whom alone they are forgiven. But John 20:22-23 makes it clear that the apostles and those whom they set apart to succeed them have the power to forgive sins in His name. I.e., they hear the confession as God’s agent, and pronounce His forgiveness with authority. A careful examination of the formula used makes clear the distinction between forgiveness, which is God’s gift to the penitent heart, and absolution, the formal announcing of such forgiveness, which is what the priest is empowered to do. One should not confess to “a worldly man” but to a man set apart by someone standing in the Apostolic Succession with the power to pronounce that absolution. And, of course, God hears one’s confession and repentance and forgives, even in private. The sense behind sacramental confession is that sometimes one has a hard time believing that God can forgive that, and that it is told to a human being standing in His shoes who declares that He has forgiven even that specific sin that is burdening one’s conscience, is psychologically more effective for the guilt-laden penitent than would be confessional prayer in private.



For a loyal Catholic, incidentally, it is one of the Laws of the Church that he or she go to confession at least once a year, and also after committing serious sin and before receiving Communion. So it is keeping in conformity with the rules of their church as well.
 
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JeffreyLloyd

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n2wolves said:
How can Peter be the founder of the RCC, aka the original church, when there is no biblical or historical account of him ever being in Rome? God Bless

In order to escape the truth of the doctrine of the papacy, according to which the bishop of Rome is the successor of Peter, some Fundamentalists have tried to deny that Peter ever went to Rome.

But the historical evidence reveals that this assertion is untenable. In his first epistle, Peter tells his readers that he is writing from "Babylon" (1 Pet. 5:13), which was a first-century code word for the city of pagan Rome. Further, the Fathers are unanimous in declaring that he went to Rome and was martyred there under the pagan emperor Nero.

This being the case, the historical evidence is unambiguous in declaring that Peter went to Rome, revealing the Fundamentalist claim to the contrary for what it is: a frantic attempt to deny one of the tenets in the doctrine of the papacy, even if truth must be sacrificed to do so.


Ignatius of Antioch in 110AD

"Not as Peter and Paul did, do I command you [Romans]. They were apostles, and I am a convict" (Letter to the Romans 4:3 [A.D. 110]).


Dionysius of Corinth in 170 AD

"You [Pope Soter] have also, by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planted in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martyrdom at the same time" (Letter to Pope Soter [A.D. 170], in Eusebius, History of the Church 2:25:8).


Irenaeus in 189 AD

"Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church" (Against Heresies, 3, 1:1 [A.D. 189]).

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the succession of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church [of Rome], because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (ibid., 3, 3, 2).

"The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the letter to Timothy [2 Tim. 4:21]. To him succeeded Anacletus, and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was chosen for the episcopate. He had seen the blessed apostles and was acquainted with them. It might be said that he still heard the echoes of the preaching of the apostles and had their traditions before his eyes. And not only he, for there were many still remaining who had been instructed by the apostles. In the time of Clement, no small dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the church in Rome sent a very strong letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace and renewing their faith. ... To this Clement, Evaristus succeeded . . . and now, in the twelfth place after the apostles, the lot of the episcopate [of Rome] has fallen to Eleutherius. In this order, and by the teaching of the apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us" (ibid., 3, 3, 3).


Gaius in 198AD

"It is recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and Peter, likewise, was crucified, during the reign [of the Emperor Nero]. The account is confirmed by the names of Peter and Paul over the cemeteries there, which remain to the present time. And it is confirmed also by a stalwart man of the Church, Gaius by name, who lived in the time of Zephyrinus, bishop of Rome. This Gaius, in a written disputation with Proclus, the leader of the sect of Cataphrygians, says this of the places in which the remains of the aforementioned apostles were deposited: ‘I can point out the trophies of the apostles. For if you are willing to go to the Vatican or to the Ostian Way, you will find the trophies of those who founded this Church’" (Disputation with Proclus [A.D. 198] in Eusebius, Church History 2:25:5).


Clement of Alexandria in 200AD

"The circumstances which occasioned . . . [the writing] of Mark were these: When Peter preached the Word publicly at Rome and declared the gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had been a long time his follower and who remembered his sayings, should write down what had been proclaimed" (Sketches [A.D. 200], in a fragment from Eusebius, History of the Church, 6, 14:1).


Tertullian 200-212 AD

"But if you are near Italy, you have Rome, where authority is at hand for us too. What a happy church that is, on which the apostles poured out their whole doctrine with their blood; where Peter had a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned with the death of John [the Baptist, by being beheaded]" (Demurrer Against the Heretics 36 [A.D. 200]).

"[T]his is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrneans, which records that Polycarp was placed there by John, like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter" (ibid., 32:2).

"Let us see what milk the Corinthians drained from Paul; against what standard the Galatians were measured for correction; what the Philippians, Thessalonians, and Ephesians read; what even the nearby Romans sound forth, to whom both Peter and Paul bequeathed the gospel and even sealed it with their blood" (Against Marcion 4, 5:1 [A.D. 210]).


The Little Labyrinth in 211 AD

"Victor . . . was the thirteenth bishop of Rome from Peter" (The Little Labyrinth [A.D. 211], in Eusebius, Church History 5:28:3).


The Poem Against the Marcionites in 267 AD

"In this chair in which he himself had sat, Peter in mighty Rome commanded Linus, the first elected, to sit down. After him, Cletus too accepted the flock of the fold. As his successor, Anacletus was elected by lot. Clement follows him, well-known to apostolic men. After him Evaristus ruled the flock without crime. Alexander, sixth in succession, commends the fold to Sixtus. After his illustrious times were completed, he passed it on to Telesphorus. He was excellent, a faithful martyr . . . " (Poem Against the Marcionites 276–284 [A.D. 267]).


Eusebius of Caesarea in 303AD

"[In the second] year of the two hundredth and fifth Olympiad [A.D. 42]: The apostle Peter, after he has established the church in Antioch, is sent to Rome, where he remains as a bishop of that city, preaching the gospel for twenty-five years" (The Chronicle [A.D. 303]).


Peter of Alexandria in 306AD

"Peter, the first chosen of the apostles, having been apprehended often and thrown into prison and treated with ignominy, at last was crucified in Rome" (Penance, canon 9 [A.D. 306]).


Lactantius in 318 AD

"When Nero was already reigning, Peter came to Rome, where, in virtue of the performance of certain miracles which he worked . . . he converted many to righteousness and established a firm and steadfast temple to God. When this fact was reported to Nero . . . he sprang to the task of tearing down the heavenly temple and of destroying righteousness. It was he that first persecuted the servants of God. Peter he fixed to a cross, and Paul he slew" (The Deaths of the Persecutors 2:5 [A.D. 318]).


Cyril of Jerusalem in 350 AD

"[Simon Magus] so deceived the city of Rome that Claudius erected a statue of him. . . .While the error was extending itself, Peter and Paul arrived, a noble pair and the rulers of the Church, and they set the error aright. . . . [T]hey launched the weapon of their like-mindedness in prayer against the Magus, and struck him down to earth. It was marvelous enough, and yet no marvel at all, for Peter was there—he that carries about the keys of heaven. And it was nothing to marvel at, for Paul was there—he that was caught up into the third heaven" (Catechetical Lectures 6:14 [A.D. 350]).


Optatus in 367 AD

"You cannot deny that you are aware that in the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head—that is why he is also called Cephas [‘Rock’]—of all the apostles; the one chair in which unity is maintained by all" (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [A.D. 367]).


Epiphanius of Salamis in 382 AD

"At Rome the first apostles and bishops were Peter and Paul, then Linus, then Cletus, then Clement, the contemporary of Peter and Paul" (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 27:6 [A.D. 375]).


Pope Damasus I in 382 AD

"Likewise it is decreed: . . . [W]e have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic churches spread abroad through the world comprise one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it.

"In addition to this, there is also the companionship of the vessel of election, the most blessed apostle Paul, who contended and was crowned with a glorious death along with Peter in the city of Rome in the time of Caesar Nero. . . . They equally consecrated the above-mentioned holy Roman Church to Christ the Lord; and by their own presence and by their venerable triumph they set it at the forefront over the others of all the cities of the whole world.

"The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it. The second see, however, is that at Alexandria, consecrated in behalf of blessed Peter by Mark, his disciple and an evangelist, who was sent to Egypt by the apostle Peter, where he preached the word of truth and finished his glorious martyrdom. The third honorable see, indeed, is that at Antioch, which belonged to the most blessed apostle Peter, where first he dwelt before he came to Rome and where the name Christians was first applied, as to a new people" (Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]).


St. Jerome in 396 AD

"Simon Peter, the son of John, from the village of Bethsaida in the province of Galilee, brother of Andrew the apostle, and himself chief of the apostles, after having been bishop of the church of Antioch and having preached to the Dispersion . . . pushed on to Rome in the second year of Claudius to overthrow Simon Magus, and held the sacerdotal chair there for twenty-five years until the last, that is the fourteenth, year of Nero. At his hands he received the crown of martyrdom being nailed to the cross with his head towards the ground and his feet raised on high, asserting that he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord" (Lives of Illustrious Men 1 [A.D. 396]).


St. Augustine in 402 AD

"If all men throughout the world were such as you most vainly accuse them of having been, what has the chair of the Roman church done to you, in which Peter sat, and in which Anastasius sits today?" (Against the Letters of Petilani 2:118 [A.D. 402]).
 
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